[AMA] Let’s talk about Takeover’s Legends and Weapons

Hey, r/ApexLegends!

Takeover brought with it many changes to our meta with updates for Legends and Weapons a like. Now that you’ve had a chance to jump in yourselves, maybe you’ve got some questions or feedback around our latest season’s meta adjustments. If you’d like a quick refresher, check out our Takeover Patch Notes.

We’ll be answering as many Legends and Weapons (including Arsenals) questions as possible tomorrow, March 5, 2025, at 1pm PT. Drop your questions here ahead of our AMA and tune back for replies when we go live. As always, feedback is also welcome and we’ll be collecting everything to share with the team. 

Here’s our Legends & Weapons team on deck:

• u/RSPN_Caseroos: Casey, Game Designer
• u/RSPN_Eric: Eric, Lead Designer
• u/RSPN_JayBiebs: John, Game Designer
• u/RSPN_JJ: JJ, Technical Game Designer
• u/RV-Devan: Devan, Lead Game Designer

Reminder: please keep your questions focused on Legends & Weapons and limit 1-2 related questions per reply to help us stay organized. If you’ve got off topic questions, let us know which AMA we should host next.

Chat soon! 

3:00pm PT: Thanks for joining us! Our Legends & Weapons AMA has now concluded. For those that didn’t get a direct reply, be sure to check out the dev’s replies as there may have been an answer to a similar question.

Hey, r/ApexLegends!

Takeover brought with it many changes to our meta with updates for Legends and Weapons a like. Now that you’ve had a chance to jump in yourselves, maybe you’ve got some questions or feedback around our latest season’s meta adjustments. If you’d like a quick refresher, check out our Takeover Patch Notes.

We’ll be answering as many Legends and Weapons (including Arsenals) questions as possible tomorrow, March 5, 2025, at 1pm PT. Drop your questions here ahead of our AMA and tune back for replies when we go live. As always, feedback is also welcome and we’ll be collecting everything to share with the team. 

Here’s our Legends & Weapons team on deck:

• u/RSPN_Caseroos: Casey, Game Designer
• u/RSPN_Eric: Eric, Lead Designer
• u/RSPN_JayBiebs: John, Game Designer
• u/RSPN_JJ: JJ, Technical Game Designer
• u/RV-Devan: Devan, Lead Game Designer

Reminder: please keep your questions focused on Legends & Weapons and limit 1-2 related questions per reply to help us stay organized. If you’ve got off topic questions, let us know which AMA we should host next.

Chat soon! 

3:00pm PT: Thanks for joining us! Our Legends & Weapons AMA has now concluded. For those that didn’t get a direct reply, be sure to check out the dev’s replies as there may have been an answer to a similar question.

Reminder to please keep replies on topic (Legends and Weapons) and limited to 1-2 related questions (drop any more questions in additional replies). Seeing a few questions and feedback around modes, skins, matchmaking, and Ranked. We'll look to do a future AMA on some of these to get your questions covered!

Question from our JP community

Why hasn't Seer received any updates or buffs compared to other Legends? Are there any plans to improve his abilities in the future?

Question from our JP community

The Nemesis seems to outperform other weapons. With the ability to equip an Accelerator, it becomes even stronger, making it feel more favored than other weapons. Are there any plans to review its weapon balance?

Question from our JP community via Twitter/X

Will Fade and Rhapsody from Apex Legends Mobile, ever make a return to the game?

Question from our JP community via Twitter/X

Are there any planned updates for specific classes? It seems like certain classes receive updates more frequently than others. Will there be a more balanced approach in the future where all classes are improved equally?

Question from our ZH community:

Regarding the buffs to the Assault and Support classes, when will Legends in other classes receive similar buffs or reworks?

OCE server issues are being investigated and on the Trello.

Update just went live to address this. Some additional details in linked thread.

Update just went live to address this. Some additional details in linked thread.

The "third-party problem" is a fascinating one in Apex, something I've thought about deeply over the game's lifetime. The Support changes and prevalence of red armor were a very deliberate attempt to increase survivability and boost multiple Legends with abilities that help you reset, or simply have a moment to process what to do for your next move. But that also made fights more drawn out, increasing the risk for third-parties. But maybe because fights conclude sooner now, players have more time outside of combat and are more frequently looking to third-party? Looking at some dashboards, there doesn't appear to be any notable shift in "dead time" between this season and last, but lobbies are expectedly dying slightly faster than last season. Why do you think there have been more third-parties? Shouldn't there be less, if fights are concluding faster? Could it be the map rotation? These are some of the questions we ask ourselves when trying to understand player experience and motivation.

As someone climbing through Diamond ranks right now, I would challenge the assumption that there have been "a lot more third parties." I sense a slight uptick, possibly because players feel more empowered to seek fights with an aggressive Legend meta and higher success rate converting damage into kills. This is compounded by the map rotation. But I also think the distinct lack of survival focused Legends makes us feel more powerless when things turn south, compared to last season. When the third-party came last season, you dropped Gibby bubble/Newcastle walls/Lifeline halo (or your Loba solo-queue third has already teleported to the crafter two POIs over). Reset potential gave good players more agency to react, whereas now there's more of an emphasis on rewarding preparation and strong positioning before a fight starts unfolding. I think "managing the third party" is a necessary skill to master in higher Ranks, and I think players at all skill bands are adjusting to the radical shift in "combat feel" between this season and last.

Personally, I think Ranked is not punishing enough for poor placement. As long as that's the case, regardless of meta, you will have players that are motivated by KP more than strategizing for end game. Unfortunately this isn't a Ranked AMA and I'm not a Ranked designer, but I do provide my input from a dev and Ranked player perspective. It's all I play, and I hear your concerns about ladder progression.

On your last point, on the impassable wall ability. I've thought about that exact same thing but I think the devil is in the details... how big is it... Seer ult size? A whole POI? Wouldn't that attract more players to the area? Can other players see it? Is audio muted inside of it? Can enemies leave it? Is it an ult? What other "stuff" should it do to feel ult-like? Make your pitch!

In regards to Q1, update just went live to address this and there are some additional details in linked thread.

Yes. Personal bias aside, I'm excited to get Wraith back to her effective skirmishing state.

Ash does have "Skirmisher" elements, but similar to Valkyrie, she has some overlap with another class. Her tactical is still very Assault-y (all Skirmishers have movement tacs) and since nerfing the dash cd her squirrelliness it's not quite as omnipresecent. But, we've shifted Legends to other classes before and it's definitely something we evaluate when looking at the lineup patch to patch.

To answer your question directly: they were all made at once as the culmination of a couple design teams (namely weapons and Legends) working to shake-up the "survival-heavy" meta with the tools at their disposal. For weapons, that was widespread buffs and some loot massaging (inspired partly by how punchy weapon identities felt in Launch Royale and "loot creep" over the course of five years). For Legends, it was a new Class focus that excelled at intiating and closing out fights, with a goal to elevate a couple Legends that were always middle-to-bottom of the pack in terms of popularity and power fantasy. In early playtests, it just felt good to convert damage into kills more consistently... we knew there was something there worth pursuing.

To answer that second part: It's easier to find that middle ground by taking big (measured) swings and reacting. It also creates a more dynamic live experience season over season, and resets the skill floor in some ways, allowing players to rediscover and relearn elements of Apex that may not have been at the forefront before. "Perfect balance" is (1) unobtainable and (2) boring, even in a sweaty, competitive game like Apex. We just need to be diligent about keeping the sharp edges in check with things like frequent targeted hotfixes.

As a live game, we want things to feel fresh yet familiar. We're proactively planning season over season while also reacting to the live climate. We get more feedback in one hour of a seasonal update going live than we do in the months of playtesting leading up to it, and we'd be doing everyone a disservice if we didn't leverage that to better balance the game. It's easier to tune hot and dial back than it is to ship something that's compelling on paper but not sticky/powerful enough to get players off what's familiar to them. If they don't find success with the new thing early, they will stick to what I know and go back to gaining RP. Ballistic is an example of this: if players are calling a Legend balanced on release, we know we didn't push hard enough. Now he's got some wild upgrades, his whole team gets a huge speed boost when he ults, and he can access unlimited ammo crate weapons. And now that people are playing him, we're better equipped to identify what is and is not working for him specifically and adjust accordingly. Same goes with other elements of the TTK design shift.

On your second question...

This is the double-edged sword of movement in our game. It's really fun, and really powerful. So why not give it to everyone? The players obviously want it!

Our job as designers is to separate what players want from what players need. Apex is a game with deep mastery, discovery, and interplay between Legends. Movement mechanics and map, loot, weapon, and Legend design are all interconnected... you can't touch one without affecting the other. What would happen if we gave Ash dash to everyone? It would feel fresh and fun for a week, but then some issues would bubble up. Caustic's whole kit isn't designed around that level of movement. He doesn't need to dash to conduct experiments on his enemies, and he doesn't want other people dashing because he's all about area denial and crowd control. Controller legends on whole would take a hit. Same with Recon. Grenades are less meaningful now because enemies can just dash away. Map design becomes less interesting... everything feels more samey when you can dash to the nearest piece of cover. SMGs take a hit because it's way harder to track enemies moving at fast speeds up close. Long range combat takes a hit.

Basically, the game's not built for it. It's also why as a Titanfall fan, I'm still a wall-run hater in Apex. It would let you down more than it helps you.

That's not to say we shouldn't explore or dismiss what players want or ask for. Maybe there's a version of wall-running that's more traversal focused than as a combat tool, and level designers can plan for it accordingly. And we can rebalance and rework Legends as the game evolves. I just hope to shed some light on the level of thought and care that has to be put into core gameplay changes. There is a cascading effect that we must be cognizant of as stewards of the game.

In the meantime, I'll still be playing Ash (cuz she's fun) and eagerly await changes to a couple of my mains that have fallen by the wayside. Apex has evolved, and they must too in order to stay relevant.

There are currently no plans to add the Mobile Legends to Apex.

Skirmisher Class is next.

While each class is being focused on, and the perks that come online have been coming in fairly hot, we do want to ensure when all is said and done each class feels a little more balanced.

So, like we saw with the Support class, we should expect to see the assault class perks simmer down a little after the season.

The honest answer is that the release of new Legends has not carried the weight or impact that they once used to. And new Legends are a considerable effort to stand up across many departments of the game.

Not to mention, creating a new Legend that fits alongside the current roster without overshadowing or being overshadowed is no easy task.

With previous recent Legend releases, there has been a lot of early excitement around the Legend for the first two weeks - then once the honeymoon period ends, and everyone drops back to their mains again - they're back to playing the same legends and comps they played last season, and the season before that... and it was starting to feel stale for a lot of folk. Which is something we don't want.

We want the game to feel more alive, more responsive to the community, and more fresh when you come back each season - which is why we've shifted towards more frequent, impactful ( and sometimes overly spicy ) meta changes that affect a wider swath of Legends and players - to drive a new flavour into Apex, see what sticks, what doesn't and continue to evolve and grow the game.

So, if by regular pace, you mean a Legend each season - it is very likely we won't see that in the near future.

But Legends are still in development, and new Legends will rise as often as we can while trying to push on evolving the game in between.

Soon. Very soon.

And if you've been counting the classes to receive new perks over the last few seasons - Skirmisher Class is next up to bat.

Pathfinder was an unfortunate victim of his own success.

Despite the massive change to the support Legends in s23, Pathfinder remained the second highest-picked Legend by a large margin, and given the plan to elevate Loba and Mirage at the split and Ash and the Assault Legends the season after, he was due for some time on the bench to allow other Legends to step up to the plate.

Skirmishers are set to receive the next class update - which Pathfinder will benefit from, and we have plans to give him back some love in the future.

It's possible, and it has come up before internally.

It will be something to consider for the class after the dust settles on the Assault and Skirmisher class changes.

We've been looking at Wraith.

The Skirmisher class update is fast approaching - so it's a good chance for us to look at Wraith and evaluate options. I think there's enough data from season 24 so far to do this evaluation with as well.

The addition of the Red Helmet as the only item in the game capable of pushing a Legend to have the extra health was an important shift for the game that we needed to evaluate on it's own merit.

If playing a particular class of character granted access to this extra tier - we would have muddied the data around how that change impacted the experience. So we opted to ensure all characters followed the new ruleset.

Additionally, in this version, shooting someone with red armor, and seeing those red effects speaks to a prize you can earn and obtain. If that player was red, but they're also a Controller Legend - do they just have the perk? Or are they carrying something you can take?

However, we're well into the season now, know how the Red Helmets play out across the field - so that may become an opportunity for Controller Legends in the future, and something we've been discussing.

Controller Legends are not marked for a meta-shakeup season. They had the unfortunate luck of being the first class alongside recon that we launched in this initiative - and learned from that season that we needed to go harder to make a real impact. It's more likley we'll start to have a look at the Legends within those classes who have fallen by the wayside once the sun has set on these class-focused seasons.

- and thank you for being so passionate about this game.

The Shiela tracker thing has come up before! I think that'd be a good add!

Okaaaaaay....

But only because you asked so nicely.

Jokes aside, we're looking at him - but if Larson has his way, the gas daddy will return with very snazzy leather chaps.

For the Assault Season, we targeted specific Assault Legends who were under-performing to breath new life into them - which is why we had a focus on Ash and Ballistic.

Others like Mad Maggie and Bangalore for example were performing well, so they needed little adjustments ( Assault perk alone was enough ) to feel good.

The Ult is a good note, and something the team has talked about a few times. It was always designed to have an element of chaos to it - that's Mad Maggie all over.

But there are definitely elements of the Ult we'd like to improve on at some point - and some simple quality of life changes we'd like to get rolling on sooner than later.

Glad you're enjoying it!

Technically, yes.

We actually did adjust the Recon and Controller classes back in season 22 - but in hindsight didn't push hard enough on them to have them make as much of an impact across the meta. Something we adjusted for seasons 23 and 24.

And with Skirmisher's being the final class to come online - all five will have have had a new adjustment by the time we see our newest Legend take the stage.

LEGEND! We have been talking about him and his future.

Mostly around how tweaking his gas either makes him an unstoppable monster - or a stinky vagrant that no one wants around... So we've been discussing options to make him more versatile, nothing to report yet, but there's desire to make a change to him.

I'd use Lifeline or Newcastle. They're so hot right now.

No plans for a full Caustic rework at the moment.

But we are actively looking at ways to buff our favourite gas-puffed marshmallow man.

Your callouts on the effect on his gas are pretty spot on, and we'd love to see Caustic play off his gas advantage - maybe even play in it more more - while not dipping too far back into the endless slow or overly oppressive gas damage ramps of the past - so it's a tricky problem to solve. Love the way you're thinking about potential solves for the animation deploy speed and such too - they're good potential angles to help with the feel of his setup speed.

No insights to share yet on when and what we're looking at with him, but we're not letting him fester and plan to give Caustic some love soon.

Revenant now silences them ...with murder.

When we reworked Revenant, one of the things we had problems with was how his silence orb made him play a more poke / denial style of play - which never really fit the fantasy of his character the way his new aggressive angry monster robot under the bed style has. Silence isn't inherently a bad element for his kit to have, so there may be opportunities in the future there, and he could definitely use a more exciting upgrade in place of Murder Machine.

No. Sounds like a bug.

We'll just have to remove Loba from mixtape for like a month, maybe a whole year.

Sounds like a bug - anything added to the weapons in Ballistics's sling shouldn't remain. ( outside of what's gained with each level )

Willing to give supports back the double heals - yes. It's a possibility - but likely not until after we see where all the classes align with their final perks and see if there's a need to anchor their identity harder again.

We've historically been fairly opposed to hard counters, but as the Legends have grown we recognize that there is some value in the chess match counters of the meta that can go on - and it's possible we could lean in that direction in the future, but there are no current plans to do so yet.

Seer we want to do something about in general - but we don't necessarily want one character's identity to be solely determined by whom they hard counter. So we likely need to look at Seer from multiple angles to get him out of obscurity.

We are not likely to see all characters have Ash's passive or Lifeline's glide.

We actually tried that internally - and it was a pretty confusing mess. You couldn't tell who could do what, building tops and second floors were suddenly able to be accosted by everyone in a squad. No where was safe, and tracking player movements or capitalizing on any well planned long-range assaults was difficult and frustrating. In a small arena with respawns, that element is fun, but less so in a one life to live BR setting. So there are some actual downsides to giving every character movement like those Legends that we'd have to find clear ways to solve for before that becomes a realistic prospect for Apex.

Larson also covered this as well in another post: https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/1j3lnup/comment/mg8at93/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Nah, can't say anything yet. But it's coming soon, hold tight!

Cheers! Glad you're enjoying it!

Thank you - I'll pass that along to the team. And yeah, loved all the "shut you up" lines he used to have. As for the Assault scan - we'll have to see where that ends up once the season simmers down. It's actually an aspect of the Battle Surge perk that might be doing more work than it needs. We'll see!

Can't guarantee anything, but feedback shared with the team!

A couple of other similar questions with replies: here and here.

Couple of Wraith related replies: here, here, and here.

Couple of Wraith related replies: here, here, and here.

No, sorry. Just outside my realm of knowledge. This AMA was focused on weapons & Legends and we don't have much to do with prestige skins, heirlooms, collection events or dive trails. Whole different set of folk look at that part of the game, didn't have the right people on hand to answer those questions today and it wasn't the focus of the ama. The feedback itself we can pass along though, just don't have the answers for you.

Yeah, and LTM's always possible - we had wall-running in the Shadowfall events a while back as part of the Hallloween event.

A Titanfall LTM does sound pretty sick!

haha - You're all good. Never took it as rude :) Easy to see how it would be anyone's guess as to when a new Legend might come along nowadays vs the every-season cadence we used to have. Glad to shed some light on where we're coming from. Cheers!

Good thing Apex has no fall damage!