League of Legends

League of Legends Dev Tracker




26 Jan

Comment

Originally posted by Warchief_Darthy

If I recall, Viego is manaless for similar reasons as Yasuo and Yone. The fact that by default, they’re spamming out a really weak ability (their Q) that scales moderately well with stats. And since Viego’s Q is his only form of sustain, even more reason for him to be manaless.

At least, that’s what I recall August saying whenever he was asked. But it’s been a couple weeks since that stream, so I’m not 100% sure if I’m remembering right.

Edit I’ll emphasize that I’m not entirely sure the reasons I gave are the correct ones. I do remember Riot August being asked why Viego was manaless during a stream, and I think he said it was a similar enough reason as to why Yasuo and Yone are both manaless. But I’m not entirely sure if my memory is correct.

I replied with another large reason, but this is also another important point. Good call out!

Comment

We decided to make Viego manaless somewhat early in his development process since we found there was a lot of confusion around mana when you entered/exited bodies.

Should new body champion abilities cost mana? Should they use his mana or their mana? If it uses theirs, how much mana will Viego have when he exits (does he gain PoM and passive mana regen from his pool, or is it static the whole time)? Should his ult have a mana cost (reset ability)?

Felt it would add sadge QoL issues around his fantasy/high point.


25 Jan

Comment

Originally posted by Necroside

> I don't believe we are looking to do work on him

I asked since me along with the majority of Veigar players were under the assumption he would receive buffs due to Mark Yetter/Scruffy saying he would be looked into on his earlier tweets in this month.

Yeah I just wanted to differentiate "doing work" and a simple buff. I interpreted doing work as in some level of a rework, which we don't have planned. I would say to expect buffs if he does hit below oracle lines, which I believe he is either there or very close to there.


24 Jan

Comment

Originally posted by __under_score__

just out of curiosity... how has camille not been touched at all? she has been so strong for so long. I also agree winrate is not very indicative of champion strength, as irelia feels insanely unfun and broken to play against if the user knows what they are doing and her winrate is trash. I get that you guys mean well and are working on creating a more balanced environment in the last couple of patches, but some champions seem to completely evade nerfs when they obviously deserve some.

Short answer: Camille's winrate and banrate do not meet the criteria for nerfs.

Long answer: Our data indicates Camille is strong. However, banrate (and to a lesser extent winrate), is a zero-sum game. Using a recent example, Darius and Graves/Yi ate up a huge portion of banrate/winrate in their role. This can cause champions right below them (say Camille/Kha) to not trigger the framework, even though they feel powerful and are very popular. It's by no means a flawless system, but it gives us a great place to start looking.

Comment

To add some clarity here, the balance framework takes into account winrate, pickrate, and banrate when flagging champions for nerfs.

In short, this means that just because a champion has >52.5% winrate, does not mean it is strictly overpowered by our standards.

That's not to say some current chamions are not 'OP' atm, but that I would be careful only using winrate as an indicator for what's imbalanced.

Our framework is also our system to point out distinct outliers. When we look at each patch, we also investigate champions that are close to our metrics, and evaluate if there's something that needs to be addressed.

As stated elsewhere in the thread, with our preseason changes, some of these champions may be beneficiaries of outlier items. If we think the class/item is an outlier, we may choose to hit the item instead of directly hitting the champion. The same works in reverse for potential buffs in preseason.

Comment

Originally posted by RomanArcheaopteryx

Don't know if they see these on reddit but I have no Twitter so - I really enjoyed the "Lover's Duo" thought it was so funny - get MediVedi on there next!

This is a pleasant surprise. I was nervous it didn't quite hit the mark I had hoped.

Comment

Originally posted by Skitter1200

Do you sometimes mess with numbers internally just to see what kind of horrific abomination you can create? Because that is something I would do.

Yes

Comment

Originally posted by Necroside

With that said (if you are allowed to say that is)

Have the potential changes just been scrapped overall or are they still in development? or it's just you really don't know about it period :o

I appreciate the initial response nevertheless and your time Yonggi.

The context that I know is that he is either tripping oracle lines or is close, I don't believe we are looking to do work on him, but I would say buffs are likely if he does end up tripping those oracle lines.


23 Jan

Comment

Originally posted by RequiemRed

This is probably the wrong place to ask, but is Lee Sin w ap ratio going from 80% to 55% a bug or undocumented change?

Sounds like a bug to me but idk lemme verify

Comment

Originally posted by RenegadeExiled

Phlox, I was wondering if you could confirm if anyone was keeping an eye on Aurelion Sol after those changes to Mandate? He already felt rough to play, having to invest in Rylais before he got any real damage, and the change to IM has me worried that we're just going to struggle even more

Definitely watching all the old mandate solo laners

Comment

Originally posted by manbearbeaver

But the goal isn’t to make Q max the optimal route right? It’s just to put it more inline with the her other abilities? Because I can get behind that, but I have a slight problem with the designer having a preferential skill order.

The designer has less of a preferential skill order, and more of a way he designed the champ to feel, and when Q feels bad it's something that'd be nice to address. Really that simple, and like you said, it's just to bring it in line.

Comment

Originally posted by manbearbeaver

Why do you want to control what people are maxing? What’s the point of artificially making a certain skill order “correct”, she’s a support why would you want to max the damage ability, when you could max utility?

I have mentioned it somewhere else, but it's not because we want them to specifically have more damage, it's because we want all 4 abilities to feel like they are pulling their weight, and unfortunately Q doesn't feel like it when it's not maxed. (W and E still do, as like you said, they are heavy CC/resist utility).

Comment

Originally posted by Necroside

With that said (if you are allowed to say that is)

Have the potential changes just been scrapped overall or are they still in development? or it's just you really don't know about it period :o

I appreciate the initial response nevertheless and your time Yonggi.

I genuinely have no idea. Admittedly I don't play veigar (or really much mid in general) so I don't spend much brainpower keeping up with or chasing down changes in that space specifically.

Comment

Originally posted by OhGodSorry

So is Riot's "ideal" optimal max order Q > E > W or Q > W > E?

I totally understand the hesitation to add more power into the kit, you've sold me on the nerfs to w and e (though the ap ratio buffs still scare me). Have you guys looked at giving more single target value and diminishing returns for multiple targets? My problem with the ability is how much of the power is based on hitting multiple targets, which isn't always super easy to utilize in plat+

The designer mainly just wants Q to feel good. In games lately the feedback on Q has been that it feels wimpy because people max W (which is correct). In dev we maxed Q for most of it because the tuning was such that Q max was correct, but shortly before release I believe we added some power to W max and it overtook it.

Comment

Originally posted by Humbungala

When is the next deploy?

Monday? I think

Comment

Originally posted by BADxW0LF1

First, quick off topic question: is there a reason why your website and client do not display the actual stats of abilities for champs? Feel like I shouldn't have to go to other sites to see these stats. It should be on the actually League of Legends site or client. Looking at both, I do not see the actual stats of the abilities in client or website.

Second, the heal just feels absolutely abysmal if you want to do a q max, especially early. As someone who wants to main her, those numbers just do not feel appealing enough to say "I want to max q over w" unless you decide not to build her as a tank and build full ap to compensate the lack of healing. Unless you think the appeal for the q doesn't lie in the healing for a support champion with an ability that heals.

Idk the real reason we don't publish those stats, I imagine it's because other sites exist that are close enough (using our API) so re-inventing the wheel isn't a great use of our manpower.

The heal is pretty strong as it scales with missing HP, so in an all-in with Q max you can get 100-300 eHP in early all-ins bottom lane if you hit good Q's (especially multi-hit). I agree for poke+lane sustain it's not great, and it's not meant to be the use-case.

Comment

Originally posted by bz6

random question, do you guys think that with the recent LP/MMR fix thing, climbing will be easier?

especially with no promos, inflation could be a real problem.

I know nothing about mmr changes etc sorry

Comment

Originally posted by WaskNinja

Hey phlox, trying to get Pyke some attention, would be very keen to hear your thoughts on him. Take a look at this: https://twitter.com/SkyNinjaXD/status/1351035042185830406?s=09&

Id love to give pyke some attention tbh

Comment

Originally posted by Necroside

Do you by any chance happen to know what Veigar changes are in the works?

No clue atm. I know we have larger item system changes in the works for 11.3 (including mages) that Veigar might like, otherwise not sure where we are at on him.

Comment

Originally posted by BADxW0LF1

Are there plans to buff q, then? Or, as you stated above, are you trying to skew/force people to max q?

I think our impression is that Q rank-ups are already pretty good (It's current optimal to max W then Q), so just nudging W rank-ups down slightly so that Q can shine more. Hesitant to buff Q rank ups because we should really not be risking giving her more win-rate.