Original Post — Direct link

I’ve been playing since April 2018, so I’ve seen a wide range of updates. As we all know, this has been easily the most drastic change in the game. After playing a couple dozen games against AI and humans, I have a few likes and dislikes:

Likes: 1. Rammers. They are just awesome units with amazing gameplay design. Easily the best addition to the update. 2. Bridges and rivers. Building up a strike force of knights, dropping a bridge, and then tearing across an enemies unprepared territory is incredibly satisfying. 3. Swordsman. In prior versions a swordsman in a walled city was an enormous pain to overcome. No longer and that is appreciated. Despite this nerf, I feel like swordsmen have never been more useful in the game, which is excellent design. 4. Scout boats. The increased vision is such an obvious thing this unit needed. 5. The attempt at balancing the economy. The commerce hut+ports based economy was kind of dumb, but it worked pretty well. Nonetheless, I like that they have a clear design vision to update the economy, each tribe specializing towards economies that match their terrain. More work can be done to improve this.

Dislikes: 1. The economy. On a large map, within 30 turns, you could generally max out the economy at about 220 stars. This was a lot of fun as it made games go faster and enabled huge endgame projects. This is just no longer reasonably possible. The economy is much slower and much more limited. This really drags the progress of the game, makes tech diversification prohibitive, and makes some units impractical. 2. Bombers. These units are too slow, too expensive, too restricted, and too fragile. Yes Giant Battleships needed replacement, but these are just awful. I don’t see how they can be tweaked to be honest. My only solace is that the AI loves them, which gives me a huge advantage. 3. Starfish. Does anyone harvest these? They don’t give more than whales did but require a lot more investment. Usually when I have a moment in a game to harvest them, the game is already effectively won. 4. Markets. Perhaps these are worthwhile on enormous maps and very long games, but they just require too much investment to be practical in the current updates. Too many top tier techs, ultra picky layout requirements. It really makes me miss commerce huts. 5. Road cost. This really needs to go back to 2. Poor yadakk is unfairly nerfed right now. I honestly don’t see the rationale for raising the cost. 6. Lumber hut cost. Further nerfs Bardur unnecessarily. At least if lumber huts cost 3, chopping the trees should yield 2*.

I could probably go on and on, but I’ll wrap up there. Overall, I see some very notable improvements to the game, but the overall experience is negative from the last version. By this, I mean that this is the first update to the game where if I was given a choice to go back and play the prior version, I would probably do so.

The game designers have clearly picked a direction for the game’s future, and I hope they continue to improve the gameplay on that path.

The last thing I have to say is to have some patience for those who are frustrated with this update. This is a pretty radical gameplay change for people who’ve been playing the previous style for years. When they come and vent their frustration, even if it isn’t quite particular, it’s valuable to hear because it is a genuine reaction. Further, the reasons for the frustration are generally revealed by patient inquiry in the comments.

External link →
12 months ago - /u/Zoythrus - Direct link

I can say that we're working on most of these and plan to iron things out over the next few patches, mainly Markets.

Bombers are actually considered OP by many, usually in the hands of a smart opponent.

The roads and Huts nerf won't be reverted, though, as they were both too strong. We'll be buffing tribes in other directions.

12 months ago - /u/Zoythrus - Direct link

Originally posted by WeenisWrinkle

I can say that we're working on most of these and plan to iron things out over the next few patches, mainly Markets.

We'll be buffing tribes in other directions.

Love hearing this!

While the road/hut nerf is fine, the most disappointing change was that the economies of almkst all tribes took a major hit. This slows games down and makes some T3 techs prohibitively expensive.

We'll be keeping an eye on it all.

Sadly, faster econ = harder to balance, especially I'd everyone needs to be X strong to compete.

12 months ago - /u/Zoythrus - Direct link

Originally posted by bdiah

Thanks for the response. I’m very excited to see what becomes of markets. I’m sure it will develop into something excellent.

I am baffled about the bit about bombers to be honest. When playing humans, whenever I’ve seen an opponent try and employ them against me, they quickly abandon them.

Yeah, you might be the first I've heard to say that Bombers are too weak. Everyone else says quite the opposite.

12 months ago - /u/Zoythrus - Direct link

Originally posted by bdiah

That is fascinating. Perhaps I've got them all wrong.

Right now, the main complaint is if they've gotten a chance to set up. People aren't too sure how to fight a Bomber that is in position to fire.

12 months ago - /u/Zoythrus - Direct link

Originally posted by kuppadestroyer

One thing I will say about bombers, is that if you put in the effort to screen with rammers to protect them, they are very powerful. I found that if you push your opponent back onto shore, the bomber can basically stop them from ever going to sea again, due to it's large range

The solution may be to slightly raise the price of Rammers to make it harder to defend your Bombers.

Scouts are structured as the counter to Bombers, so they need to be able to actually do their jobs.

12 months ago - /u/Zoythrus - Direct link

Originally posted by user___________

Do you plan to buff Yadakk in any way to make up for the nerf or do you feel the nerf was justified?

We're keeping an eye on them.

Our alpha testers really didn't think the nerf was as drastic as most claim it is.

12 months ago - /u/Zoythrus - Direct link

Originally posted by Marcelace

I think scouts are a good way to counter Bombers until the enemy has researched Aquatism. At that point scouts just don’t do enough damage I think.

I played a game with a friend on a large map and we got into a situation where I had almost double the amount of cities as him, but we both made enough stars to spam bombers every turn and so we reached a stalemate. I tried to break through the stalemate with a combination of scouts and bombers, but the process was so long and tedious that my friend just resigned.

I think this is a problem. battleships could be countered by battleships and this was a rather effective counter, even in the end-game. Scouts on the other hand, I find to really struggle in the end-game.

Hmmmm, thanks for letting us know.

Obviously, "who has more battleships" is terrible design, so it had to be changed. I wonder if we can make Scouts better at their jobs...