Original Post — Direct link
about 4 years ago - /u/JaceAtCoffeeStain - Direct link

Originally posted by Makeyourselfnerd

Having to manually build every last single piece of every single thing makes the game not fun for me anymore. It bites both ways, and the community is simply asking you all to factor that in.

Jace's many references to game modes could be the answer here - give us some form of faster more automated building in a mode dedicated to it. Keep it separate from the main game if you all feel strongly about this. Take away achievements, or whatever else you feel is necessary to keep the vanilla game pure. The mega builders among us don't value those things regardless. We want to build BIG, but we don't want to spend ages clicking the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over to do so. :/

But what is "big"? And how much does it weigh? Hey Vsauce, Jace here.

"Big" in vanilla is "many hours spent building one piece at a time". Whereas "big" with blueprints means "many hours spent building with the inclusion of blueprint functionality". That will of course result in different scaled factories. But... then we haven't solved the problem of allowing people to build "big" factories. We've just moved the goal posts.

(And also what snutt said if we get too big the game/your PC dies.)

about 4 years ago - /u/JaceAtCoffeeStain - Direct link

Originally posted by Makeyourselfnerd

This was pretty big, at least to me, and it took ages. Especially because it was done a long time ago now before mods existed. I died numerous times making this thing because I couldn't fly via mods yet :)

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/bu8ljr/i_built_a_supercomputer/

When I was done building that, I was indeed satisfied. But I also was burned out on the game because I had just spent many many hours placing foundation after foundation and wall after wall. I had earned my manual stripes, and now I wanted to be more efficient in my next projects. Something that I think Ficsit™ would support. But those tools are not available...

To me, when you transition from building big one piece at a time to building big with blueprints, you're choosing as a player to focus more on the macro as opposed to the micro. Can I make these now large scale systems work efficiently and eliminate bottlenecks as I find them, as opposed to can I make these handful of individual machines work efficiently.

This is crude but basic human nature - if this one thing I did was fun and satisfying, I want more of it and usually at larger scale. If all I do is the same thing over and over, I tire of it and move on to other things.

You guys have a really great progression system in the game in terms of tiers and the space elevator - an area that probably needs tweaking over time but is really rewarding to every player I've ever seen play. People are genuinely happy when they unlock the next tier and get access to new stuff.

Where you don't have any progression at all today is in the methods you use to build things. Whether you're just starting and still smacking an iron node by hand all the way to you've got all tiers unlocked, a global train system, the majority of nodes tapped and supplying, etc etc you're still building everything one piece at a time like a rookie...

For the number of items making your PC die concern, sounds like your engineers need to get creative :) That is a dev problem to solve to at least some degree, and players that choose to go big are usually quite aware of the tradeoffs that will come and find ways to limit or workaround while still accomplishing what they want. Look at that other game you just learned about, people build insanely big there and it brings their machines to a crawl. Those game devs optimize as much as they can, but also tell the community "you did it to yourself".

Cool computer! I think i remember seeing it way back when.

This is crude but basic human nature - if this one thing I did was fun and satisfying, I want more of it and usually at larger scale. If all I do is the same thing over and over, I tire of it and move on to other things.

This is exactly what I was referring to in my previous post. "big" is dependent on the tools and resources you have, not the physical size of your factory. Giving you another tool won't solve that issue of "I NEED MORE" that our brains tell ourselves.

If you had blueprints at the time you built your Supercomputer factory and made exactly that factory, there is a high chance you would not have shared it here on reddit (less Sense Of Pride And Accomplishment™) and you wouldn't have "earned your manual stripes".

Those game devs optimize as much as they can, but also tell the community "you did it to yourself".

uh, yeah thats exactly what we do... with blueprints you'd hit that limit 10x maybe 100x faster. as mentioned on the vid, we constantly work on optimsation and have made enormous strides.

To me, when you transition from building big one piece at a time to building big with blueprints, you're choosing as a player to focus more on the macro as opposed to the micro.

This is the nail in the coffin: We don't want macro, we want micro. We don't even want drag and drop let alone blueprints (exceptions: eg. conveyor belts). That's our intended experience which we want to keep. BUT, that is also an ongoing discussion (which we always include your feedback) and subject to change. The existence of Pipes and when they were included was impacted by community response.

Note: I am not arguing that blueprints arent cool. They are. Look at what the Area Actions mod does which is along the same lines. Those megafactories are incredible. If we were to decide to add something as game changing as blueprints, we need to think about is "What are we solving?". The first step is look at issues and ask "Why are they the problems?" as opposed to "What is the problem?". imo, because blueprints don't solve WHY the problems are what they are (rather than temporarily fix WHAT they are) they will just return again later once the band-aid falls off and blueprints become the norm and people start taking them for granted.

about 4 years ago - /u/JaceAtCoffeeStain - Direct link

Originally posted by Makeyourselfnerd

Also u/JaceAtCoffeeStain, this was me as well: https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/5e664ea2559bfff8234394bb

I've put some thought into this, and even tried to be creative in getting the feedback in. I've got a fair amount of experience in software development at extreme scale. I'm not just some guy complaining on the internet.

My hope is that you and Snutt are relaying the good feedback you get, especially when it is well thought through and constructed, directly to the broader team as is and not editorializing. Verbatim feedback lets the team get a feel for how the customer is truly experiencing the product. I bring verbatims to my PM's and EM's all the time to help ground them and pull their heads out of the bubble that we all tend to live in when in high pressure tight timeline development.

Hopefully you all have a Teams channel devoted to this kind of thing, and this conversation is making its way there. Thanks for listening!

We don't relay Q&A site stuff to the development team, the development team refer to the Q&A site directly themselves.