Ahh thank you for telling me this! I got this bit of info from the wiki
Also wait, does that mean everything else is correct? 👀
No, the rest is supposition which may or may not be correct. The way you phrased the opening though made it seem like you were establishing the canon facts first, and I wanted to clarify that this one isn't a canon fact.
Raksha was present on Gielinor even before the Stone of Jas was arrived on the world.
This is not correct.
Then what's even the point of active mining if semi active mining is only marginally worse? If I'm there focusing on the game and active mining I should get rewarded for it. Monday's update was a step in the right direction and this has undone it.
You are rewarded by 10% better rates. 4 ticking is not a playstyle we want to make mandatory for skilling.
Well received? Not entirely sure what posts you've been reading... The stickied post is full of complaints. Several posts prior to the sticky were also... full of complaints.
I still find it baffling how the changes made on Monday took a year to reach, and then days to revert most of it because it was too much. Like what do you guys actually do when testing things? The hilarity of 'the player are the QAers' becomes more true every single update and just makes the developers seem incompetent.
Do the team just not understand the game, or?...
Oh sorry I meant the original rework, not the recent changes.
You can't draw very good lines then. An update benefits alts when they can get max to near max with very little input. That's exactly what this does.
The benefit to full afk is from 26% to 34%. It's negligible.
Community “we love the mining and smithing update, with the small exception of these stone spirits on the boss drop tables.”
Jagex “alright we will increase the value of stone spirits and ore by making the mining skill click intensive and not enjoyable”
Community “ u wot”
The changes were well received but ore just wasn't holding enough value. You basically had to afk to get any value out of mining.
Can't be next week, so within the next year, like the stone spirits the first time?
Definitely before 2025.
Full performance above 0%. Thanks for bringing back alt scape.
We have to draw a line somewhere. Anything that benefits everyone will also benefit alts.
Just remove them honestly. Nerfing a skill that had just been made enjoyable for the vast majority of players, in order to make an item that no one wants anyway viable is insane.
The changes weren't to buff stone spirits, they were to buff ore.
Necrite spirits being used for a potion made them worth money again. Not back to where they were in terms of the drops they replaced, but it's nice to see them beam.
That said, it is concerning to me that they only have value because they're used for something other than mining. The counterpart spirits are worth less than half due to not being used outside of mining.
If this is how we have to get value back to drop tables that's fine but I also wouldn't rule out "systems problems" when keeping an eye on stone spirits. Turning a blind eye to part of the design just because you feel it is good leaves you vulnerable to mis-steps like the update that went live.
It's not that I think it's good, it's that there's nothing that can be done to a level 40 drop to make it a highly prized item.
A better option than it as it was. If this slight reversion doesn't fix the problem, then I think you should consider increasing the percentage where the curve changes, and making the penalty curve harsher. Such as, until 20% stamina it's the original curve, then instantly drops to 50% decreasing to 1% at 0% stamina.
I'd also be interested to see how bots are affected by the update, because whilst alts will be, bots can simply change their script to not reach low stamina. Jagex will have better data on how much excessive ore flooding in is bots versus alts, but in F2P at least, I think a majority of it is from bots rather than alts.
Yeah bots isn't really a problem I can deal with from a design perspective. I leave that to the bot detection department.
I suspect we might end up with that happening at some point, but better that we get this here now to "fix" the issue. Implementing ranges is going to be so much more work for them, dev and QA-wise probably than just a revert like this.
It's still not much work regardless (some devs were arguing in favour of quadratics when it was them that would have to implement it) but mostly I want to make sure the fix is easy to understand. "It's like before" is very easy to understand.
I still think full progress at >1% stamina is too powerful. I think something like a range of 100% > 60% progress will be great and then just fall off a cliff at 0%. As to Seren Stones, I always thought it was wild how much ore they gave after the initial rework. I think this change is also welcome, but what is with the (1)500 > 2000 discrepency?
I think the discrepancy was just a miscommunication/typo in the patch notes.
Isn’t that what everyone has been saying for a year?
Well, a lot of people are still suggesting systemic changes like giving them extra uses, letting them be disassembled, etc but really the problem is that low value items are being dropped from high value bosses, and that's not a one click fix, that's an evaluate every drop table and decide whether it needs fixing type thing.
Once those changes go live, is everything else in M&S related content in a good enough state in your opinion?
I've definitely still got my eye on stone spirits, but really this is a drop table problem rather than a systems problem.
Stamina
The mining changes that went out this Monday which were intended to reduce the viability of AFK ore farming had a much stronger than intended impact on semi-active players. Those who were only clicking rockertunities were seeing a 10-20% reduction in performance.
We've evaluated the situation and decided to partially revert the changes. We're going to keep the harsh penalty at 0 stamina, but otherwise restore full performance as long as your stamina is above 0. This will mean that anyone mining at least semi-actively will have their rates restored to what they were before the recent changes.
Seren Stones
Seren stones also received a fairly harsh reduction in the rate at which corrupted ore was rewarded. However, the purpose of this change was to return corrupted ore rates to where they were before the M&S rework. With the rework, Seren stones were giving far too much ore, which contributed to the problem of smithing XP being undervalued, and ...
Read more External link →I think this is a good mechanical concept, although I wouldn't necessarily tie it to stone spirits. I'll think about it.
Is it possible to flip it on for everyone in an update?
Yes that's probably fairly easy, but I'm not convinced it's the best way to resolve it.
You really need to make the stamina bar on by default if you're gonna quarter the rate at which you receive ore when you're at 0 stamina. I'm sure a lot of less knowledgeable players don't even know what stamina is since the bar is off by default.
That's a good point.
It was reported (at least in the tl;dr here) that one project was canceled due to how unpopular it was in the survey and that it had been in the development process before the survey.
IIRC what he said was that it was "lucky" that the project got cancelled because it scored low in the survey.
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