14 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

Behavior like this is not acceptable.

When things like this happen, you need to create a Customer Support Ticket and make sure you describe the situation and attach a replay of the game. Customer Support is the path for disciplinary measures, and repeat offenses can be escalated.

This is the path to resolution. You may hear people saying they've Reported someone a thousand times, but Customer Support Tickets are the Disciplinary Path for our game.

14 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

Perhaps I'm not making myself clear.

If someone is breaking the rules and ruining games, that's something that should be reported to Customer Support. Why? So that actions can be taken and the incident can be logged.

There are people that invest a great deal of time and money into this game, so there is an escalation path before accounts are sanctioned or otherwise interacted with. Sending a ticket to Customer Support is the path to logging the incident and escalating if necessary.

If you don't send a ticket to Customer Support, there is no recourse to this situation, because Customer Support is the Disciplinary Path.

---

If you have an incident which you feel stands out or is particularly egregious, you should send me the Replay and Customer Support Ticket# so that I can be sure to follow up internally.

14 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

As I've never been the one saying these things in this way about this particular issue, I'd ask that you give me some room to work with here. I'm being very specific in what I'm asking for.

I'll repeat from above:

14 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

Yes, I understand things happened before I entered service. Which is why I'd like you to send a Ticket with Replay to Customer Support and send me the egregious Replays along with the Customer Support Ticket#s.

I can follow up on issues that I'm made aware of and look into situations that are egregious.

14 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

That looks like a thing that happened before I started working here. And as old replays aren't viewable on current clients, I have no means of investigating this matter.

Please don't send me Replays that have someone that annoys you in them. Send me replays that exhibit bad/egregious behavior, after you have submitted them to Customer Support.

14 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

14 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

As even the most frustrating players have both Good Days and Bad Days, I'm not asking for just replays of any particular person. If you experience behavior that is egregious enough to Ticket Customer Support, then please also send me that Replay and your Ticket Number.

If you experience behavior that is egregious enough to Ticket Customer Support, then please also send me that Replay and your Ticket Number.

Many Notorious Figures do actually have their Good Games and their Bad Games, which is why the Bad Games need to be retained for disciplinary and escalation reasons.

As a member of this community for years, I am aware of the lack of faith that folks have in our system. This is why I'm trying to go the extra mile and be the bridge that makes sure what we can do is done to its fullest capable extent.

So, for anyone out there in the cheap seats that hasn't clued in on me saying this at least 8+ times by this point...

If you experience behavior that is egregious enough to Ticket Customer Support, then please also send me that Replay and your Ticket Number.

14 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

I'm not a technical support specialist, so if X or Y thing in the game is happening and it requires a restart/driver update/reinstall/whatever... I'm not the person for that. So hopefully CS can help, but that's out of my league personally.

However, whenever someone experiences behavior that is egregious enough to Ticket Customer Support, and also sends me that Replay and your Ticket Number... then I have found the response to be significant and worthwhile everytime I've followed up.

Players aren't able to learn what measures are taken, because there is a law which provides privacy for player interactions, so the copy/paste reply that "actions have been taken" is often met with distrust and frustration. Still, in every instance I've looked into measures HAVE been taken and are commensurate with the problem reported.


The specific instance of issue being referred to here is such an outlier because it's BEEN an issue. As I don't have any bricks to lay a foundation with in terms of hard information, I don't have anything to build a case on going forward. So, in order to make sure outlier issues are addressed and Escalated, I will repeat again...

If you experience behavior that is egregious enough to Ticket Customer Support, then please also send me that Replay and your Ticket Number.

14 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

We are GDPR compliant.

14 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

The reason I am spending to much time on this is because most players do not understand our Disciplinary Path. While there is a basic system the monitors and addresses "Misbehavior in Chat", that is primarily a system which utilizes chat restrictions. As chat restrictions are not the solution to the situation described where a player decides to assist the enemy team rather than their own, a chat restriction is NOT a solution.

Therefore, the solution lies on the Escalation Path, which requires Documentation and Multiple Interactions over a period of time. Businesses often have systems of "Writing Up" someone for X or Y issue so that the business can keep track. That documentation can be used should behavior issues go uncorrected and can assist in the escalation of the problem up to its ultimate conclusion.

Our Karma system is largely cathartic, though such information is recorded in its own way. Misbehavior in Chat assists in determining if someone is being a problem, and there is a system which cross-references conversations to provide an automated response.

This is the reason I am Repeatedly Repeating in a Repetitious Fashion that Customer Support Tickets are the foundation of our Disciplinary Path. When behavior is egregious enough to make a person stop what they are doing and go to an out-of-game report system and file a Replay with a Description of the incident, that is noted and responded to according to internal policy. Because it is noted down and recorded, that can allow for escalations if problematic behavior continues.

I realize it's commonly believed that "Reporting does nothing". Reporting in game reduces a player's Karma by 1. Reporting via a Ticket causes a real person to do real investigative work into whether an issue was present and required attention.

I'm not advocating that anyone spam Tickets, because that's not a path to success. Whenever you have an issue that stands out and is in need of correction, those Tickets are important and need to be created and submitted with a replay.

The answer is, "Not enough to progress the Disciplinary Path to where it needs to be to correct this issue".

14 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

Yes, escalation on repeat offenses is required to progress further on a Disciplinary Path. As many people might incorrectly feel "Reporting" someone is part of that path, this conversation today is required to correct that incorrect assumption.

The Bystander Effect is when people walk by an issue assuming someone else will handle it, or that someone else has already called/gone for help. As a result, a situation that needs to be addressed goes unaddressed. Me repeatedly saying the path to addressing this issue is to counter the Bystander Effect and encourage folks to be the ones that actually call/go for help.

14 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

Thank you very much. People that cause problems in only some games as opposed to all games make it harder to document and find patterns. So it's extremely important to document every time it DOES happen.

14 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

By all means, please spread the word about how problems like this are addressed so that we can make the game a better place to play in.

12 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

Thank you very much!

While we can't comment on steps taken, when problems are found they are acted upon.

12 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

Unfortunately, there is no hard proof that can be shown. As everyone is entitled to privacy, there are laws in place which enshrine that right.

We are a world-wide company and adhere to strict measures to make sure we are compliant. Other games companies are very strict in terms of "measures taken" as well, because of the same reasons.

If you want to read/learn about digital privacy law, this is a good place to learn: https://gdpr.edu

12 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

Proof that a player did the wrong thing shows that a situation happened. That can result in a warning or sanction depending on the offense.

The idea that "Everybody Knows" is good enough to take the strictest possible action just isn't feasible. That why repeated interactions are required for an escalation path to be followed. It's the way it works.

This is why I am repeatedly telling people that when they see bad behavior, they need to send in Tickets. That's how we deal with this stuff.

The problem is that a lot of folks don't have faith in the Ticket process, which is why I'm repeatedly telling people that we NEED you to do it anyway.

This isn't a Mom & Pop Restaurant where the place is owned by two folks that don't take no messin' around. This is a multi-national company that has to adhere to a lot of standards and laws.

You aren't going to be able to get a report card on what your Ticket did, because that's just not possible. I can tell you from my personal experience checking behind Tickets that people have made me aware of, all the actions taken were impactful and followed our protocol. I realize you don't want to believe me on this, but I literally have no other means to convince you.

I'm a Community Manager, and my aim is to help the Community. This is an issue that I've heard about for years while I was a player, and I'm trying to do what I can to make the system work better to help everyone on this server.

12 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

While I represent WarGaming and I do issue information on WG's behalf, this is ME giving you my word that I'm persuing this as a thing that I feel is important for my Community.

I don't have the ability to tell you about Disciplinary Measures, because that is not able to happen. If you want to seek redress in an International Court to overturn those privacy laws so that you can learn how someone is impacted by a Ticket, then god-speed friend. As that hasn't happened, and isn't likely to happen anytime soon/ever, me giving you my word that I've seen the process work is all I can do.

Which is why I am informing people that if you are having an issue, please contact me and I can try to find the breakdown and help restore faith in our systems.

12 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

I'm not going to go into anything overly technical.

In a general sense, when a customer makes an account with a company, that company becomes a steward for their data. That data can be an array of information, including account status (closed/open/revoked). As such, gaming companies have found it more correct to avoid commenting on punishments which approach this line. A generic "Actions have been taken" message is able to communicate that the company has followed their protocol without going into details which could be considered priviledged.

I'm not a legal scholar, and I'm not trying to be. I'm trying to communicate why we use generic messaging. Other companies use similar descriptors because of this reason.

12 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

Someone else had asked for "Naming & Shaming" to be elaborated on, but there hasn't been any brainstorming session on how to make tighter language. So, I can understand if folks feel the term is "loose". That's a project for another day.

In general, a forum is a place to converse about stuff. We have a diverse audience here of people from literally all around the globe, so there has to be some guiding light on how we can all co-exist without the world exploding.

As a basic rule, just assume that conversations should operate on a foundation of respect. Things get heated, and people get sharp, so sometimes mods have to break up the barfight... but if folks can keep it to a calm level of disagreement, then the world keeps on spinning.

As for "Name & Shame", the only purpose of saying "This person did a bad thing!" is to blow off steam and get others folks to agree with that. It's literally "Naming them publicly and then shaming them publicly". It has the tack-on effect of getting a bandwagon formed against a person that can lead to abusive behaviors aimed at them, which can spiral and make things bad all around. "Well, they started it!" doesn't matter, because it just forms drama. It's better to use the Ticket System if someone breaks the rules because that's the Disciplinary Path for our game.

Yes, it is ironic to say that in a thread with so many inferences to players that folks have experienced issues with. However, this is a pain-point that is not new, and as this thread could be used as a teaching moment to remind people that Tickets are the Disciplinary Path in our game, I've elected to let it run for purposes of getting the word out.

Unaddressed issues lingering can end up breeding a lot of discontent (you might have noticed some in this thread), so it's important to give information on how such issues can be addressed.

12 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

Yes, it is ironic to say that in a thread with so many inferences to players that folks have experienced issues with. However, this is a pain-point that is not new, and as this thread could be used as a teaching moment to remind people that Tickets are the Disciplinary Path in our game, I've elected to let it run for purposes of getting the word out.

Unaddressed issues lingering can end up breeding a lot of discontent (you might have noticed some in this thread), so it's important to give information on how such issues can be addressed.

12 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

My gut says it's not likely, because then you have players that will try to rules lawyer or walk fine lines while getting away with things. I will ask about that, though.

Remember that if a game ban of a week is applied, then that can translate into a length of time where bad behavior stops. Obviously the next week isn't an issue, but if the line gets toed for 2 or 3 weeks after, then a month is a notable amount of time to consider as "improvement". However, it could also be that the problems happened again immediately, but because "Everybody knows Tickets don't matter" and nobody makes a Ticket showing repeated behaviors... then what could have been a escalation gets missed. This is why I am talking about the Ticket system so much.

So one of the issues that "notoriety" can cause is, "Oh. It's THAT player. We lose."

Once you have comments like that in chat, a player could argue that's a personal attack and that the situation was incited by the other player. This is why the best thing to do is note the problematic behavior and Do Not Engage with it. When the player does the bad thing all by themself, then it's a cut and dried situation where it's only on them.

While "3 Strikes and You're Out!" works for Baseball, you're talking about an account that people can put a significant amount of time and money into. By virtue of that, you should expect more interactions then "Mess up 3 times and you're gone", which is why I mention an Escalation Path.

12 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

Studies show that even the most toxic players aren't always toxic. It might be that they are only toxic in 30% of their matches. It might be in 70% of them. By that understanding, there are matches where they AREN'T toxic.

It's a very different situation when someone starts the toxicity by themself and persists with it as opposed to being provoked and then flipping on the crazy switch. The situation is important to look at from a behavioral and discipline standpoint. That's why Replays are required.

It's not surprising to hear that Replays being sent can get the sender punished for incitement, because there are players out there that will start fights with notorious individuals as a regular thing. So it's important to NOT start those fights.

12 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

Yeah, so that's not what I said.

Whether you spend money or not, people invest thousands of hours into this game in a fairly regular way. As such, it's not as simplistic as folks are hoping with this "Three Strike Rule" stuff. That works for telling a kid to stop stealing cookies from a cookie jar, or not doing their homework and playing video games instead.

If a person gets Ticketed, they might get chat banned. Gets Ticketed again for in-game causing gameplay issues and gets a 1 day Game Ban. Gets Ticketed again for it and gets a 3 day Game Ban. Then... doesn't get Ticketed because "nobody believes in the Ticketing system", then enough time passes and they go back down the ladder on the Escalation Path. That's why I'm advocating that people actually Ticket these issues, because this narrative about it not mattering Makes It Not Matter.

If you want these things to be addressed, stop spending your time telling people that the only way to fix things doesn't work. Encourage people to use the system that I'm telling people to use, because it's how we address things here.

12 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

Do me a favor and send me the Ticket information on that one. Replay as well if you have it.

12 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

Something as broad as that could certainly be an option. I'll look into if that's possible.

12 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

Few games offer the "avoid" function. It's not something standard across a lot of titles.

I think Overwatch allows you to "Avoid" 3 people at max? Something like that.

11 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

Blacklist auto-Blocks players that you have chosen to Blacklist. So you won't see chat from them in game at all.

Also, it stops them from sending you messages in Port.

11 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

The Better option, the one that makes Everybody Happy... is to just address the problem.

How do you do that?

Say it with me~

"Contact Customer Support and send a Replay. If it's egregious, also send Ahskance the Ticket# and the Replay"

7 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

I would suggest the use of "Collusion" for acts which aid the enemy team. This could include sailing to a random corner of the map, choosing not to use their weapons at all while actively playing, and other such notable choices which are discernably premeditated. Some players are still learning the game, so it's possible to misinterpret poor play as "Intentional", so please be careful to look at the situation from the viewpoint of a Customer Support agent that wasn't in the battle. The C.S. agent is going to have to have enough of a situation to work with that they can clearly see the problem.

If a player uses the damage feedback mechanic to destroy their own ship... or does a seemingly intentional ram to force a player into oncoming fire... these could be filed under "Damage to/Destruction of Allies". However, as Friendly Fire was removed, that will most likely involve an automated response informing you that Team Damage was removed. You could elect to reopen the ticket, but it's likely better to instead choose "Collusion" if the end result is that the enemy team was helped in a discernable way.

7 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

Remarkably enough, WarGaming is extremely open to individuals speaking up and reaching out to other members in the organization. This has happened and the support has been enthusiastic.

As I have said before and will continue to repeat ad nauseum, Customer Support Tickets are very important to our system. This is how our Disciplinary Path is structured and we NEED players to actively utilize it when genuine issues occur. If there is an issue with is particularly egregious, please also send me the Ticket# and Replay so I make extra sure that it gets the treatment is requires.

Thank you for doing your due diligence in the past. I'm not excited to hear that you were only rewarded with a sense of frustration and helplessness.

I am actively working on this because this is the Disciplinary Path in our game. It must function in order to allow players to keep their Community healthy. Right now, the Path is working but players have lost faith through previous interactions and through people assuring each other that there is no hope. I am here to tell you there IS Hope.

As such, I need you to continue to Ticket issues you run across and provide Replays. If the situation is egregious, please also send me the Ticket Number and Replay so I can be sure to keep up with it.

5 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

Do me a favor and send me the Ticket# for the times you did that so I can look into it. It might have been that the Ticket was closed on our end, but the work in the backend of the system can take a few hours. I want to look into those.

Your "we all know" is wrong, though. Every single time I've been given a Ticket# to check into, actions HAVE been taken.

Saying that using the Ticket system doesn't do anything... Causes the Ticket System to not do anything. If people don't use it, then problem cases can't be corrected.

If you tell everyone that "The Firehose just puts your house on fire" and make people scared to call the Fire Department, then their house just stays on fire :\

5 days ago - Ahskance - Direct link

There is no part of the Ticket system that requires me to be in on it. I am requesting folks send me this information so I can A) Be sure of the results and that the system IS working, and B) Learn what areas need to be pushed further to make sure everything is the way it needs to be.

The entire purpose of this thread was to say, "This Legendary Issue still isn't handled." My responses in this thread are to say, "I'm looking to handle it. Help me by using the Ticket System, because that's how we make things happen."






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