28 days ago - Albion Online - Direct link

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7s [Music] what's up guys it's lupac here from  albian TV I am here in Berlin for a week I'm at  
13s the sandbox interactive offices and I'm very very  lucky to be bringing you guys with the rest of the  
18s team a series of interviews exclusive interviews  with developers and other people from within the  
25s company this one will be someone that you're very  familiar with someone who's been on camera plenty  
31s and I believe I might even be sitting in his chair  it is of course Mr Robin Hanes himself a pleasure  
39s to see you um and the first time we've sat down  like this I think we've had we've had meetings  
45s and we've had you on my live stream many years ago  we've never had an interview I don't think we've  
51s never sat down in the set and had an interview now  you obviously you know you are the CEO of sandbox  
58s interactive and your journey through the company  you start you started as a developer well I mean  
65s I I'm CEO and game director and out of those two  titles I always consider the game director the  
72s more important title because um yeah I joined  originally as lead designer for albian online  
79s I'm not a founding member of the company as many  people uh might think but I actually they assume  
86s but I actually joined about a year and a half  after the initial team had started on the project  
93s but I came in to kind of guide the very early  project into some kind of Direction where it would  
101s actually turn out to be a game because because  initially it was a technical prototype yeah it  
106s had you know it had a vision for what it wanted  to be from a sort of core gameplay Direction but  
114s it needed somebody to take those ideas and like  really shape it into a playable game and that was  
121s my task initially and then obviously that became  a lot more over the years yeah and we we've talked  
127s at length about the size of the company then the  size of the company now and there's obviously  
134s been significant challenges as the company grows  thing not necessarily challenges but things work  
141s differently as a company grow or triples in size  essentially I mean that's I think anybody who's  
146s like been in a company like that or who has had a  company like that uh has run a company like that  
153s um experiences those stages of growth right like  we started out like before I join there was really  
159s just a few people less than 10 people I think I'm  employee number 13 that's a phase where you can  
164s still talk to everybody like regularly every day  and um then you go into a phase where maybe like  
172s 20 30 people you have some Department structures  but really like everybody's still very tight and  
178s then obviously as that keeps growing you have to  change how you're working you're you know more  
184s and more and more is becoming independent you  have units that maybe don't talk to each other  
188s at all anymore yeah so you have to think about how  do you still keep them connected and in sync and  
194s all of that so yeah growing and growing a game and  growing a company is a very challenging process  
200s and as a CEO obviously you've got to you have got  to be business-minded now but I've always seen you  
207s as a Game Dev that became the CEO and heart you  are still game focused and player focused and  
213s does that sometimes clash with when you have to  be business CEO versus the game CEO yeah I mean  
219s it constantly clashes right like I I mean I I got  into video games to make games to make games yeah  
226s uh and like actually funny story when I originally  got into video games I didn't think about why I'm  
231s doing it I just did it and then at some point  when you finish your degree people start asking  
236s you where do you want to go like where do you  want to take this and then started thinking  
240s about that and my dream back then was I was like  one day I want to be the guy that talks about  
246s the game that he's worked on and obviously that's  worked out in the de talks that dream is fulfilled  
253s um you want my job at you talk guy pretty much no  but like obviously there's a big conflict or or  
261s there's some conflict in being just about the game  and then being about the business but I've always  
267s seen it that you know projects like this games  like this you cannot make without a lot of money  
275s right like you have large teams lots of people  working working on these plus actually I don't  
282s people probably underestimate the cost of like  technically running these games right yeah live  
288s service games with with the server infrastructure  yeah with like a significant server infrastructure  
292s but not only that with all the the special  networking connections traffic Etc that you  
299s have to pay for there's a lot of of you know that  a pretty hefty operation behind albn online now  
305s so I try to basically separate these things pretty  hard and like when I'm in the design and Direction  
311s mode I'm not in the business mode and when I'm  CEO mode I have to think about the business of  
316s course yeah we've sort of said as well you know  I tged on the fact that you guys have essentially  
321s more than tripled in size since I've been first  involved withing online and is there one thing  
327s that Springs to mind that that change that maybe  you didn't expect or you you would never have seen  
333s coming like is there a big the biggest difference  that maybe you didn't anticipate when growing what  
340s was a big Advantage for us in in building this  game was that in the core team we had a lot of  
346s people who happen to have the right experience  so I had kind of seen both developments on a  
355s very small scale and developments on a pretty  big scale with over 100 people and you know  
362s in the art Department Code Department we had  people that were you know very experienced when  
367s they started this project that had seen a lot of  things so not a lot of things like fundamentally  
372s surprised us about this I guess the only thing  that was surprising is how challenging it still  
379s was despite kind of knowing what would happen if  you scale up and you know it it's just challenging  
385s it's it's challenging to get away from sort of  tight monolithic structures that you've built  
392s that are very very efficient where you where where  you're centralizing the decision-making process  
397s to be fast but then obviously as you're scaling up  you can't just rely on the same shoulders to carry  
405s the entire weight so a big thing that's happening  at sandbox over the last years is that more and  
411s more and more work becomes distributed amongst  teams um there's more autonomous units working  
417s on particular parts of the game and I think that  is absolutely the correct thing because it also  
424s means that we're we're capitalizing on the diverse  ideas that are in the team right like yeah more  
432s people more ideas brought this up a few time  now times now but for example a hot editor I  
437s don't think that's something that would have  um sprung up if we you know keep controlling  
442s everything that that's happening in the game  from a central perspective that only kind of  
447s happens if if one team takes the initiative and  say says you know we know this is a lot of work  
451s but we're willing to take it on now I do like to  sit down everyone I've ever sat down with from SBI  
456s you know have a few I have a few questions that  give me an insight into the person and the gamer  
461s because we're all Gamers at heart that's that's  why we're here that's why we do what we do now I  
466s don't I feel it's a very harsh term I don't like  the term yellow zone Warrior because I feel that  
473s it sends the wrong message but I have heard this  term banded about a little bit and I'm not you  
480s know I'm not labeling you Robin but I would like  you to tell me the type of albian player you are  
486s I mean obviously we there's there's always the  question do the deaths play so I mean obviously I  
491s play less album than I would like to um that just  to get that out there um the reality is that like  
498s playing in a guild which I think for me would be  the ideal way of playing albian it's not really  
505s accessible to me because I don't have room for the  commitment between work and the family you're not  
510s secretly in a guild then you uh I'm not currently  no um not saying that we haven't done that in the  
516s past I know I know i' I've someone might have  a shot caller that works at SBI they never know  
522s no but like like for like over the course of the  production for the majority of that period I've  
528s I've been kind of the solo albian player which I  think um is not the ideal way to to play albian  
536s in many ways because there's obviously a lot of  Social and components that's really interesting  
541s though but then you've seen the solo improvements  over the years because launch albian was you kind  
549s of had to get into a guild to do the majority of  content versus albian now you could never touch  
555s guilds and you probably won't run out of things  to do yeah and it actually like I found myself  
561s being more stuck in particular like like actually  sticking to the game for extended periods to play  
566s a particular content I mean what what we do is we  have regular de nights where we where we play then  
572s maybe Arenas to train some I've he as well it  can get heated we have some people who are much  
579s better and some people that are on a kind of lower  experience level so where would you rate yourself  
585s oh I'm definitely being car 10 as a pvper oh I'm  terrible no I'm terrible yeah so I come from a  
593s shooter background right I'm I'd say I'm decent  at Shooters when I was started my career as a game  
599s def away as an amateur you made a halflife mod I  made a half lifee one mod yeah and like obviously  
604s one back then one was consuming everything that  was there like all the mods and actually I feel  
610s that that that was a huge inspiration to my career  because mods back then and probably today still  
619s are such a creative space where so much is going  on and obviously we we uh owe quite a lot of games  
627s nowadays to moders that have yeah I mean some  games survive invented genres essentially yeah  
633s and so that was your that was your little uh that  was my kind of I mean I wasn't involved in any of  
637s those big ones but I that was the world I was  initially active in but um anyway back to being  
645s me as an albian player so yeah I'm I'm if I'm in  PvP I can execute things that I'm being told to  
652s do so I'm probably like a good person to follow a  shot caller but I would not be the person to call  
660s any shots in a zvz what's been really interesting  is you know the guilds have their own strategies  
666s their own Styles there's also Trends between  servers different regions have a different play  
672s style and I noticed this in 5V FS when we ran  the tournaments like the Asian 5v5 play style  
677s was different to the Western but for the bigger  battles you know which is the meat of albian for a  
682s lot of players since the foundations update it has  felt very much more battle you know cuz it's it's  
689s a centralized like Siege you know it feels like  you're in a fight and that that's really a lot of  
694s players have loved to see that and see it happen  that's personally been my favorite update of the  
701s recent ones that was that was a big game share  especially for Albi and TV and the war report  
706s now you know we run late every day because it just  doesn't stop they just don't stop fighting that's  
713s lovely to hear because I mean obviously they're  taking sort of a bet on foundations which which  
719s was we want to do something to show our commitment  to guilt Warfare to like territory Warfare as a  
729s big thing in albian online after we' done quite  a lot of more solo focused updates I think that's  
735s that's been one of the main challenges for us when  we've been designing updates is obviously we have  
739s a new schedule we want to be fast we want to do  something per season um but we also have such a  
746s wide audience from like hardcore guilds that are  playing for the season wins to more casual guilds  
753s that are you know playing the season but not  necessarily to win all the way to very casual  
758s guilds with just a few friends trying to do  this thing or that thing and then all the way  
762s to solo players which then again go into like more  casual solo players or then the hardcore PVP mist  
769s or whatever you do as you know there's there's a  very wide range of players and I'm probably even  
775s ignoring all the economics yeah there's players  that don't even leave town it's very very hard to  
782s reach all those players with every update which  is why we're not even trying to do that anymore  
788s like we're trying to do like one important thing  for one group you'll you'll see that I think with  
793s the higher update frequency that more often than  not uh a topic will be started in One update and  
799s then continued in the next update and obviously  like the fortifications from foundations that's  
805s a topic that we also essentially started in  foundations um and that we are looking forward  
812s to picking up again at some point and kind of  continue on on making these battles even more  
818s exciting because we left out an entire part of  sieges yeah um which was you know Siege engines  
823s or more ways of besieging territory but we felt  that we first wanted to get an idea of how people  
830s receive this how people play this so we couldn't  just immediately follow up we needed time to  
836s observe so that's something we hope to get around  to um but actually what's happening right now is  
842s we're as we're reaching kind of the end of our  push to make the open world more playable for for  
851s um solo players we are right now kind of sorting  all the different topics that we have for 2025 and  
858s in the decision- making process for what's going  to get priority phase is complete like the albian  
863s Cinematic Universe you know that that phase it  will be completed with the next update that you  
869s nothing about yet sorry but um which will be  revealed in due time um but as that's going on  
878s we're also already of course thinking about like  what will be the focus of the next uh sort of push  
885s and there's a lot of things um that are obviously  competing for attention of course if we're talking  
891s bigger picture what we've just started with  Horizons is to take a look at PVE and like we said  
900s we need to if we ever want to have challenging  PVE in the game again not just in in hardcore  
906s Expeditions but like an actual like uh open world  play we need to set a new Baseline for where they  
913s where they are in a challenge level and then  that's for us the foundation to go on to think  
919s about more PVE content down the line then we have  of course unfinished business when it comes to  
929s the awakened weapons where a lot of people are  asking when will we get the legendary weapons  
934s um The Guild season for us is always unfinished  there will always be updates to to that so there's  
941s a lot of topics um that are currently kind of  so it's not always about brand new content it's  
950s about you know you don't just deliver for example  the foundations and tick it off you're constantly  
957s monitoring it and trying to make it the best  it can be as a feature which is nice because  
963s nobody likes their favorite content to feel like  it's been abandoned if that makes sense yeah I  
969s mean it's it's always a balance right so if we if  we talk about the game updates what role do the  
973s game updates play um the game updates fulfill  two roles one they need to keep the current  
979s player base entertained and show that you know we  have we we're looking at the issues that the game  
986s has right now and you know in a game of this scale  everything's going to Happ issues in some way some  
991s issues are bigger some issues are smaller like  for example I'm sure people are asking why haven't  
995s they done anything about hell Gates why haven't  they done anything about corrupted dungeons why  
999s haven't they done anything about Crystal League  you know there's all these topics and it's not  
1002s that we're aware not aware of them but actually  like the right solutions to these topics um are  
1009s actually often more challenging than the original  implementation yeah right because you now have to  
1015s take into account the players that are actually  liking certain aspects of your current gamepl so  
1019s you have to kind of consider do you keep it intact  you know and also when everyone moves to a certain  
1025s content they're not doing something else which  then takes it so so we're aware of all of these  
1031s and we're always debating the best Solutions and  when we come to a point where we're like okay we  
1039s really feel that we have a good solution for this  topic now that's when we'll typically jump on it  
1045s and say okay let's schedule that in the in in  the road map and we are currently I think we  
1050s are collecting a number of cool solutions for for  various things that are under discussion for being  
1056s scheduled the um the other side is that an update  also always has the role to reactivate people to  
1064s to get to either acquire new players but also  to to reactivate older players to get them to  
1070s check out the game again and say hey look Alban's  changed quite a bit so we always have to strike  
1074s a balance between making an update um good for  existing players but also attractive for people to  
1080s join the game to continue to grow the game because  obviously their goal is to make sure that albian  
1086s is still a game people played 10 years down the  line exactly and I I I love the you know I love  
1092s the fact that we're now syncing up the update with  the season start because as you said new players  
1098s return or so new players join and old players  return and they've got a new update but also  
1104s they've got a fresh season they're not joining  and being like well there's no point playing The  
1108s Guild season CU this guilds already won you know  that everything is like right let's let's go on a  
1114s cycle let's get into the season and there's a lot  like the upsides and downsides to that right like  
1121s the the upside is definitely what you're saying  I think it it's just a moment that makes a lot of  
1126s sense there's a lot that we could do with this  timing in the future where we could do changes  
1131s per season and stuff like that the downside is in  reality that actually doesn't leave a whole lot  
1136s of development time for us because our typical  schedule is in that sort of three month cycle  
1142s is about two months development and then one  month of just making sure that everything that  
1146s we touched in changed isn't broken and you know  gets the approval for being rolled out from all  
1152s the different platforms that we are hosting it  on and so there's a lot of um overhead actually  
1158s for each release of of such a big version and  actually a pretty short development cycle in  
1163s each update that the team really has to make the  best of considering the quality of them it really  
1167s is and I think a lot of players probably don't  realize that when you update your game it has to  
1173s basically be reauthorized on these app stores even  though it's already there it counts as a as a new  
1178s product essentially to them yeah I mean that's  something that has to happen for every patch  
1183s essentially yeah so got a few quick fire questions  for you then you know just don't overthink it just  
1190s the first thing that comes to your head okay  so favorite update uh Queen favorite weapon  
1200s claws weirdly oh okay okay I like the sound effect  of claws it's very STIs it's just the first weapon  
1207s that I fall in love with at some point and then  like it it hasn't worked for me in the game but  
1213s it's still like First Love okay most memorable  moment in the game there's there's several um  
1220s I think like opening the floodgates and seeing the  players come in and just like day one is obviously  
1227s very me memorable um in of like favorite moments  uh I think like every time I go into a city and  
1234s see everybody going about their business  yeah and it feels like an MMO feeling that  
1239s energy of everybody's at the market everybody's  repairing everybody's doing stuff like that is my  
1245s favorite thing about album because the goal was  a player driven world with lots of activity and  
1249s that's what you can see in the cities yeah now  I've already bent your ear off this week about  
1253s things I'd love to see in albian I mean I get  to live every player's dream really and like  
1259s find all the dead relevant people and tell them  what I want to change in the game you know that  
1263s that's that's what every player wants um and  I'm excited for the direction of the game uh  
1269s obviously the Albi and TV crew is excited for  for broadcasting everything that we're doing in  
1273s the future and yeah it's been a pleasure to talk  with you Robin has been a pleasure I'll see you  
1278s soon thank you for watching guys thank you for  Robin joining us as always I'm lupac from albian  
1283s TV uh many more interviews coming here on the  official albian YouTube channel of course you  
1289s can catch me and the guid at twitch.tv/ Alin  online with a variety of shows see you soon
1310s [Music]