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Albion Online
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| 7s | [Music] what's up guys it's lupac here from albian TV I am here in Berlin for a week I'm at |
|---|---|
| 13s | the sandbox interactive offices and I'm very very lucky to be bringing you guys with the rest of the |
| 18s | team a series of interviews exclusive interviews with developers and other people from within the |
| 25s | company this one will be someone that you're very familiar with someone who's been on camera plenty |
| 31s | and I believe I might even be sitting in his chair it is of course Mr Robin Hanes himself a pleasure |
| 39s | to see you um and the first time we've sat down like this I think we've had we've had meetings |
| 45s | and we've had you on my live stream many years ago we've never had an interview I don't think we've |
| 51s | never sat down in the set and had an interview now you obviously you know you are the CEO of sandbox |
| 58s | interactive and your journey through the company you start you started as a developer well I mean |
| 65s | I I'm CEO and game director and out of those two titles I always consider the game director the |
| 72s | more important title because um yeah I joined originally as lead designer for albian online |
| 79s | I'm not a founding member of the company as many people uh might think but I actually they assume |
| 86s | but I actually joined about a year and a half after the initial team had started on the project |
| 93s | but I came in to kind of guide the very early project into some kind of Direction where it would |
| 101s | actually turn out to be a game because because initially it was a technical prototype yeah it |
| 106s | had you know it had a vision for what it wanted to be from a sort of core gameplay Direction but |
| 114s | it needed somebody to take those ideas and like really shape it into a playable game and that was |
| 121s | my task initially and then obviously that became a lot more over the years yeah and we we've talked |
| 127s | at length about the size of the company then the size of the company now and there's obviously |
| 134s | been significant challenges as the company grows thing not necessarily challenges but things work |
| 141s | differently as a company grow or triples in size essentially I mean that's I think anybody who's |
| 146s | like been in a company like that or who has had a company like that uh has run a company like that |
| 153s | um experiences those stages of growth right like we started out like before I join there was really |
| 159s | just a few people less than 10 people I think I'm employee number 13 that's a phase where you can |
| 164s | still talk to everybody like regularly every day and um then you go into a phase where maybe like |
| 172s | 20 30 people you have some Department structures but really like everybody's still very tight and |
| 178s | then obviously as that keeps growing you have to change how you're working you're you know more |
| 184s | and more and more is becoming independent you have units that maybe don't talk to each other |
| 188s | at all anymore yeah so you have to think about how do you still keep them connected and in sync and |
| 194s | all of that so yeah growing and growing a game and growing a company is a very challenging process |
| 200s | and as a CEO obviously you've got to you have got to be business-minded now but I've always seen you |
| 207s | as a Game Dev that became the CEO and heart you are still game focused and player focused and |
| 213s | does that sometimes clash with when you have to be business CEO versus the game CEO yeah I mean |
| 219s | it constantly clashes right like I I mean I I got into video games to make games to make games yeah |
| 226s | uh and like actually funny story when I originally got into video games I didn't think about why I'm |
| 231s | doing it I just did it and then at some point when you finish your degree people start asking |
| 236s | you where do you want to go like where do you want to take this and then started thinking |
| 240s | about that and my dream back then was I was like one day I want to be the guy that talks about |
| 246s | the game that he's worked on and obviously that's worked out in the de talks that dream is fulfilled |
| 253s | um you want my job at you talk guy pretty much no but like obviously there's a big conflict or or |
| 261s | there's some conflict in being just about the game and then being about the business but I've always |
| 267s | seen it that you know projects like this games like this you cannot make without a lot of money |
| 275s | right like you have large teams lots of people working working on these plus actually I don't |
| 282s | people probably underestimate the cost of like technically running these games right yeah live |
| 288s | service games with with the server infrastructure yeah with like a significant server infrastructure |
| 292s | but not only that with all the the special networking connections traffic Etc that you |
| 299s | have to pay for there's a lot of of you know that a pretty hefty operation behind albn online now |
| 305s | so I try to basically separate these things pretty hard and like when I'm in the design and Direction |
| 311s | mode I'm not in the business mode and when I'm CEO mode I have to think about the business of |
| 316s | course yeah we've sort of said as well you know I tged on the fact that you guys have essentially |
| 321s | more than tripled in size since I've been first involved withing online and is there one thing |
| 327s | that Springs to mind that that change that maybe you didn't expect or you you would never have seen |
| 333s | coming like is there a big the biggest difference that maybe you didn't anticipate when growing what |
| 340s | was a big Advantage for us in in building this game was that in the core team we had a lot of |
| 346s | people who happen to have the right experience so I had kind of seen both developments on a |
| 355s | very small scale and developments on a pretty big scale with over 100 people and you know |
| 362s | in the art Department Code Department we had people that were you know very experienced when |
| 367s | they started this project that had seen a lot of things so not a lot of things like fundamentally |
| 372s | surprised us about this I guess the only thing that was surprising is how challenging it still |
| 379s | was despite kind of knowing what would happen if you scale up and you know it it's just challenging |
| 385s | it's it's challenging to get away from sort of tight monolithic structures that you've built |
| 392s | that are very very efficient where you where where you're centralizing the decision-making process |
| 397s | to be fast but then obviously as you're scaling up you can't just rely on the same shoulders to carry |
| 405s | the entire weight so a big thing that's happening at sandbox over the last years is that more and |
| 411s | more and more work becomes distributed amongst teams um there's more autonomous units working |
| 417s | on particular parts of the game and I think that is absolutely the correct thing because it also |
| 424s | means that we're we're capitalizing on the diverse ideas that are in the team right like yeah more |
| 432s | people more ideas brought this up a few time now times now but for example a hot editor I |
| 437s | don't think that's something that would have um sprung up if we you know keep controlling |
| 442s | everything that that's happening in the game from a central perspective that only kind of |
| 447s | happens if if one team takes the initiative and say says you know we know this is a lot of work |
| 451s | but we're willing to take it on now I do like to sit down everyone I've ever sat down with from SBI |
| 456s | you know have a few I have a few questions that give me an insight into the person and the gamer |
| 461s | because we're all Gamers at heart that's that's why we're here that's why we do what we do now I |
| 466s | don't I feel it's a very harsh term I don't like the term yellow zone Warrior because I feel that |
| 473s | it sends the wrong message but I have heard this term banded about a little bit and I'm not you |
| 480s | know I'm not labeling you Robin but I would like you to tell me the type of albian player you are |
| 486s | I mean obviously we there's there's always the question do the deaths play so I mean obviously I |
| 491s | play less album than I would like to um that just to get that out there um the reality is that like |
| 498s | playing in a guild which I think for me would be the ideal way of playing albian it's not really |
| 505s | accessible to me because I don't have room for the commitment between work and the family you're not |
| 510s | secretly in a guild then you uh I'm not currently no um not saying that we haven't done that in the |
| 516s | past I know I know i' I've someone might have a shot caller that works at SBI they never know |
| 522s | no but like like for like over the course of the production for the majority of that period I've |
| 528s | I've been kind of the solo albian player which I think um is not the ideal way to to play albian |
| 536s | in many ways because there's obviously a lot of Social and components that's really interesting |
| 541s | though but then you've seen the solo improvements over the years because launch albian was you kind |
| 549s | of had to get into a guild to do the majority of content versus albian now you could never touch |
| 555s | guilds and you probably won't run out of things to do yeah and it actually like I found myself |
| 561s | being more stuck in particular like like actually sticking to the game for extended periods to play |
| 566s | a particular content I mean what what we do is we have regular de nights where we where we play then |
| 572s | maybe Arenas to train some I've he as well it can get heated we have some people who are much |
| 579s | better and some people that are on a kind of lower experience level so where would you rate yourself |
| 585s | oh I'm definitely being car 10 as a pvper oh I'm terrible no I'm terrible yeah so I come from a |
| 593s | shooter background right I'm I'd say I'm decent at Shooters when I was started my career as a game |
| 599s | def away as an amateur you made a halflife mod I made a half lifee one mod yeah and like obviously |
| 604s | one back then one was consuming everything that was there like all the mods and actually I feel |
| 610s | that that that was a huge inspiration to my career because mods back then and probably today still |
| 619s | are such a creative space where so much is going on and obviously we we uh owe quite a lot of games |
| 627s | nowadays to moders that have yeah I mean some games survive invented genres essentially yeah |
| 633s | and so that was your that was your little uh that was my kind of I mean I wasn't involved in any of |
| 637s | those big ones but I that was the world I was initially active in but um anyway back to being |
| 645s | me as an albian player so yeah I'm I'm if I'm in PvP I can execute things that I'm being told to |
| 652s | do so I'm probably like a good person to follow a shot caller but I would not be the person to call |
| 660s | any shots in a zvz what's been really interesting is you know the guilds have their own strategies |
| 666s | their own Styles there's also Trends between servers different regions have a different play |
| 672s | style and I noticed this in 5V FS when we ran the tournaments like the Asian 5v5 play style |
| 677s | was different to the Western but for the bigger battles you know which is the meat of albian for a |
| 682s | lot of players since the foundations update it has felt very much more battle you know cuz it's it's |
| 689s | a centralized like Siege you know it feels like you're in a fight and that that's really a lot of |
| 694s | players have loved to see that and see it happen that's personally been my favorite update of the |
| 701s | recent ones that was that was a big game share especially for Albi and TV and the war report |
| 706s | now you know we run late every day because it just doesn't stop they just don't stop fighting that's |
| 713s | lovely to hear because I mean obviously they're taking sort of a bet on foundations which which |
| 719s | was we want to do something to show our commitment to guilt Warfare to like territory Warfare as a |
| 729s | big thing in albian online after we' done quite a lot of more solo focused updates I think that's |
| 735s | that's been one of the main challenges for us when we've been designing updates is obviously we have |
| 739s | a new schedule we want to be fast we want to do something per season um but we also have such a |
| 746s | wide audience from like hardcore guilds that are playing for the season wins to more casual guilds |
| 753s | that are you know playing the season but not necessarily to win all the way to very casual |
| 758s | guilds with just a few friends trying to do this thing or that thing and then all the way |
| 762s | to solo players which then again go into like more casual solo players or then the hardcore PVP mist |
| 769s | or whatever you do as you know there's there's a very wide range of players and I'm probably even |
| 775s | ignoring all the economics yeah there's players that don't even leave town it's very very hard to |
| 782s | reach all those players with every update which is why we're not even trying to do that anymore |
| 788s | like we're trying to do like one important thing for one group you'll you'll see that I think with |
| 793s | the higher update frequency that more often than not uh a topic will be started in One update and |
| 799s | then continued in the next update and obviously like the fortifications from foundations that's |
| 805s | a topic that we also essentially started in foundations um and that we are looking forward |
| 812s | to picking up again at some point and kind of continue on on making these battles even more |
| 818s | exciting because we left out an entire part of sieges yeah um which was you know Siege engines |
| 823s | or more ways of besieging territory but we felt that we first wanted to get an idea of how people |
| 830s | receive this how people play this so we couldn't just immediately follow up we needed time to |
| 836s | observe so that's something we hope to get around to um but actually what's happening right now is |
| 842s | we're as we're reaching kind of the end of our push to make the open world more playable for for |
| 851s | um solo players we are right now kind of sorting all the different topics that we have for 2025 and |
| 858s | in the decision- making process for what's going to get priority phase is complete like the albian |
| 863s | Cinematic Universe you know that that phase it will be completed with the next update that you |
| 869s | nothing about yet sorry but um which will be revealed in due time um but as that's going on |
| 878s | we're also already of course thinking about like what will be the focus of the next uh sort of push |
| 885s | and there's a lot of things um that are obviously competing for attention of course if we're talking |
| 891s | bigger picture what we've just started with Horizons is to take a look at PVE and like we said |
| 900s | we need to if we ever want to have challenging PVE in the game again not just in in hardcore |
| 906s | Expeditions but like an actual like uh open world play we need to set a new Baseline for where they |
| 913s | where they are in a challenge level and then that's for us the foundation to go on to think |
| 919s | about more PVE content down the line then we have of course unfinished business when it comes to |
| 929s | the awakened weapons where a lot of people are asking when will we get the legendary weapons |
| 934s | um The Guild season for us is always unfinished there will always be updates to to that so there's |
| 941s | a lot of topics um that are currently kind of so it's not always about brand new content it's |
| 950s | about you know you don't just deliver for example the foundations and tick it off you're constantly |
| 957s | monitoring it and trying to make it the best it can be as a feature which is nice because |
| 963s | nobody likes their favorite content to feel like it's been abandoned if that makes sense yeah I |
| 969s | mean it's it's always a balance right so if we if we talk about the game updates what role do the |
| 973s | game updates play um the game updates fulfill two roles one they need to keep the current |
| 979s | player base entertained and show that you know we have we we're looking at the issues that the game |
| 986s | has right now and you know in a game of this scale everything's going to Happ issues in some way some |
| 991s | issues are bigger some issues are smaller like for example I'm sure people are asking why haven't |
| 995s | they done anything about hell Gates why haven't they done anything about corrupted dungeons why |
| 999s | haven't they done anything about Crystal League you know there's all these topics and it's not |
| 1002s | that we're aware not aware of them but actually like the right solutions to these topics um are |
| 1009s | actually often more challenging than the original implementation yeah right because you now have to |
| 1015s | take into account the players that are actually liking certain aspects of your current gamepl so |
| 1019s | you have to kind of consider do you keep it intact you know and also when everyone moves to a certain |
| 1025s | content they're not doing something else which then takes it so so we're aware of all of these |
| 1031s | and we're always debating the best Solutions and when we come to a point where we're like okay we |
| 1039s | really feel that we have a good solution for this topic now that's when we'll typically jump on it |
| 1045s | and say okay let's schedule that in the in in the road map and we are currently I think we |
| 1050s | are collecting a number of cool solutions for for various things that are under discussion for being |
| 1056s | scheduled the um the other side is that an update also always has the role to reactivate people to |
| 1064s | to get to either acquire new players but also to to reactivate older players to get them to |
| 1070s | check out the game again and say hey look Alban's changed quite a bit so we always have to strike |
| 1074s | a balance between making an update um good for existing players but also attractive for people to |
| 1080s | join the game to continue to grow the game because obviously their goal is to make sure that albian |
| 1086s | is still a game people played 10 years down the line exactly and I I I love the you know I love |
| 1092s | the fact that we're now syncing up the update with the season start because as you said new players |
| 1098s | return or so new players join and old players return and they've got a new update but also |
| 1104s | they've got a fresh season they're not joining and being like well there's no point playing The |
| 1108s | Guild season CU this guilds already won you know that everything is like right let's let's go on a |
| 1114s | cycle let's get into the season and there's a lot like the upsides and downsides to that right like |
| 1121s | the the upside is definitely what you're saying I think it it's just a moment that makes a lot of |
| 1126s | sense there's a lot that we could do with this timing in the future where we could do changes |
| 1131s | per season and stuff like that the downside is in reality that actually doesn't leave a whole lot |
| 1136s | of development time for us because our typical schedule is in that sort of three month cycle |
| 1142s | is about two months development and then one month of just making sure that everything that |
| 1146s | we touched in changed isn't broken and you know gets the approval for being rolled out from all |
| 1152s | the different platforms that we are hosting it on and so there's a lot of um overhead actually |
| 1158s | for each release of of such a big version and actually a pretty short development cycle in |
| 1163s | each update that the team really has to make the best of considering the quality of them it really |
| 1167s | is and I think a lot of players probably don't realize that when you update your game it has to |
| 1173s | basically be reauthorized on these app stores even though it's already there it counts as a as a new |
| 1178s | product essentially to them yeah I mean that's something that has to happen for every patch |
| 1183s | essentially yeah so got a few quick fire questions for you then you know just don't overthink it just |
| 1190s | the first thing that comes to your head okay so favorite update uh Queen favorite weapon |
| 1200s | claws weirdly oh okay okay I like the sound effect of claws it's very STIs it's just the first weapon |
| 1207s | that I fall in love with at some point and then like it it hasn't worked for me in the game but |
| 1213s | it's still like First Love okay most memorable moment in the game there's there's several um |
| 1220s | I think like opening the floodgates and seeing the players come in and just like day one is obviously |
| 1227s | very me memorable um in of like favorite moments uh I think like every time I go into a city and |
| 1234s | see everybody going about their business yeah and it feels like an MMO feeling that |
| 1239s | energy of everybody's at the market everybody's repairing everybody's doing stuff like that is my |
| 1245s | favorite thing about album because the goal was a player driven world with lots of activity and |
| 1249s | that's what you can see in the cities yeah now I've already bent your ear off this week about |
| 1253s | things I'd love to see in albian I mean I get to live every player's dream really and like |
| 1259s | find all the dead relevant people and tell them what I want to change in the game you know that |
| 1263s | that's that's what every player wants um and I'm excited for the direction of the game uh |
| 1269s | obviously the Albi and TV crew is excited for for broadcasting everything that we're doing in |
| 1273s | the future and yeah it's been a pleasure to talk with you Robin has been a pleasure I'll see you |
| 1278s | soon thank you for watching guys thank you for Robin joining us as always I'm lupac from albian |
| 1283s | TV uh many more interviews coming here on the official albian YouTube channel of course you |
| 1289s | can catch me and the guid at twitch.tv/ Alin online with a variety of shows see you soon |
| 1310s | [Music] |