80 % of the legendarys (and MW) which I get (and I dont get alot) are for javelins Iām not even playing. I like the idea for MW, but I would like to get legendarys exclusivly with the class Im actually playing with.
So, is this loot behaviour intended or still bugged?
External link āNot intended, we're still looking into why this is happening. We've narrowed it down significantly (current thinking is that it may be related to how loot tables are filtered).
Thank you for clarification. Hopefully you find a solution soon :)
Me too! This bug in particular really sucks. š
And what do you think about getting the same 2-3 legendarys All the time? Rng or Somthing else? I play on ps4 with a Group of people (7-10) and all of us have this "problem". Thanks
We're still looking into it, it's theoretically possible that it's just RNG... But given the reports, that seems unlikely. So... Still investigating!
Thank you very much from a mass effect trilogy lover here š
Nice! Lot of fond memories working on and playing those games! š
The issue doesn't appear to exist for legendary gear, just legendary components. Looks like the change to include universal components in the loot tables opened the door to all components being in there, but holy moly, why is it so heavily weighted against the javenlin you are playing? It's maddening. BTW, it wouldn't be an issue at all if the drop rate for legendaries were reasonable (like 1 every GM3 legendary contract/mission/SH).
Well, the crappy thing is that if the filtering isn't working... Then you really only have a 1/4 chance of getting the drop for your current suit š
Yeah... We can haz more lemon drops then? :0
Well, it's two separate issues... and I don't think changing drop rates would be a good fix for the bug.
There are separate conversations going on about loot. š
I appreciate the heads-up on why you guys think it might be. Really prefer that way of answering to just seeing "working on it". š
Good to know! I can try to provide more context in the future (when I know it š).
I appreciate your responses. My last response was cheeky and lighthearted fun, but to be serious for a moment, the lemon drop rate in GM3 content appears to .. have an issue beyond just RNG that exacerbates issues like the one discussed here. I posted a bit about it here if you are interested:
Why don't you think that changing the lemon drop rate (even if just on GM3) would be an acceptable solution?
Edit: and to be super clear, by drop rate, I don't mean raining more loot, I mean increasing the chance that the loot that does drop is lemon drop quality. I've seen some dev comments in the past where the issue between loot frequency and loot quality seems to have been a bit confused.
Yeah, I know you were messin' around - I usually avoid joking around too much as it can get taken out of context š.
Why don't you think that changing the lemon drop rate (even if just on GM3) would be an acceptable solution?
Well... it's more that there's a bug in the way that loot is selected, and it's not working correctly. Adjusting the drop rate in response to that would be addressing the symptom - not the root cause. There are cases where you might want to do something like that... but generally, it's best to address the root problem.
Well, it's two separate issues... and I don't think changing drop rates would be a good fix for the bug.
I would agree. However, what are your (I say "your" but of course mean the devs as a group) thoughts on changing drop rates being a good thing for the game itself?
That's a much larger conversation... we're currently having a lot of internal discussions on the future of loot and progression and this is tied up a lot in that.
If the drop chance for legendaries/mw for other javelins is a low chance and not some other issue, raising the drop rate will indirectly fix that.
In D3 you can always get legendaries from other classes but you get so much loot it doesnt matter in the end and it feels ok.
It would, but as I mentioned in the other reply - it still leaves us with an unknown bug in our systems... and who knows what other issues that might cause as we continue along.
Speaking in my function as a programmer: That doesn't really sound like a simple bug anymore. That almost sounds like a fundamentally broken system in need of re-implementation from scratch. I am not meaning any offense and I'm just speaking from experience. When I try to adjust a system to correct a misbehavior and it takes me longer than a week working within the established confines, I start to seriously consider rewriting it from the ground up.
It has some development overhead but in the end it saves on HOURS of unnecessary debugging and builds on previously acquired knowledge, allowing a forward-thinking approach to its scalability.
Yep, and that's something we're considering. "Rewriting Loot" isn't a quick thing though... so regardless of whether or not we want to proceed with that, we're still left with this annoying bug that we want to fix. š
I just don't particularly understand why loot is this way currently. I personally stopped playing because honestly chasing a build was taking long periods of time to get any piece because there was no real way for me to chase anything specific and my luck feels extra trash even running 90 luck. I recall spending about a week and a half trying for the life of me to get a mw component for ranger as well as I still have never seen a last argument or a single mw light machine gun which were my favorite weapons all the way up to when I started gm1.
I just sincerely hope the team understands the problem. I can't speak for everyone but for me getting anything I want feels unattainable and ending a mission with a barren rewards screen after I salvaged everything is about the worst I've felt in these types of games.
As a comparison in td2 I'll run around for an hour or two and then have to pick through my inventory to clean it out after all 100 slots of my inventory fill. It's certainly not all good but I'll walk away with a generous amount to tinker with and it's enough that I can keep chasing for the perfect piece. That alongside recalibration really lets me feel like creating my perfect build is attainable.
I think we understand what some of the core issues are... there's a huge problem with variance for example... with a large enough sample "everything is working fine". But the issue there is that that isn't the case for people actually playing the game... you don't get thousands of drops in a night for example - so statistics aren't really comforting there.
So longer term fixes to the base system will likely include reducing variance and narrowing the band between "lucky" and "unlucky" people.
I agree. I hope your team gets it sorted out soon.
I saw your other comment about the internal discussions. I think we all look forward to some clarity on the path forward.
Any chance you could address the topic (at a super high helicopter level - no details reqd) of the loot quality calculation? Specifically, whether the calculation for quality of a loot drop contains factors that are predetermined at the start of a session (contract, mission, SH, freeplay) or whether every single loot drop has quality randomly determined when it pops? It really seems like something nerfs loot drop quality on a session by session basis and it's not an equal RNG chance from one session to the next (all other factors being equal).
Loot type (weapon, gear, component, etc) and rarity are determined at the time of the drop.
Hope that helps! š
I see someone also got a legendary for a Javelin they're not even playing... XD
Yes... Yes I have š
That said this discussion is giving me a few ideas - going to head back to the office after lunch and check something (might be promising?)
Did a design director of a loot based game 6 years in development just admit that their entire loot drop system is bugged?
What in the actual heck am I reading right now?
No... there's a bug that is awarding you drops for the wrong suit... that's what we're talking about. š
we're currently having a lot of internal discussions on the future of loot and progression
I'll be a little bit harsh, because this matters a lot:
At some point real soon, we need to know how loot and progression are planned to work throughout the lifecycle of the game
Everyone talks about WoW or Diablo or whatever, but when they do so, they take for granted that the developers will, mostly, follow the same pattern that they always have. In WoW (or SWTOR), every expansion drops by making previous gear worthless, by adding levels to players. Then, as the expansion progresses, the player gains more and more power by finding gear. Eventually, this recurs, wiping the gear again and delivering more content.
Diablo did a similar thing early on- they raised the level cap, destroying all the (real money purchased in some cases!) loot that everyone had spent time on. Meanwhile, Diablo has two overall types of characters, the regular characters who never expire, and the "seasonal" characters who, on certain time intervals, are reduced to being "regular" characters, while a new season launches.
At this point, everyone understands how this works and expects it.
But right now, the situation in Anthem is similar to vanilla WoW- the players aren't expecting their loot to become expired. This expectation is based on things like:
-There's been no sign of loot getting expired (via adding two to ten pilot levels, for instance)
-Everyone naturally assumes they are at the beginning of a long gear curve, because everyone is running around with at most one-three functional inscriptions across all their components, out of twelve potential spots that could be amazing each.
-Requests for loot increases have been met repeatedly by refusal. This strongly implies that you take the loot seriously, and are unwilling to trivialize a long grind by allowing it to progress meaningfully faster than planned- so we can expect the current loot zeitgeist to continue for months or years.
- When the gods try to help us out by making the loot rain (has happened THRICE at this time), you guys stymie the will of heaven by crawling into the server and turning it off. For you to go against divine mandate, you must surely not intend to allow the loot to expire every time you come out with a little bit of new plot!The last is a bit fanciful, but you see my point.
Anyway, absent from my list is "you guys told us you weren't going to raise pilot level or otherwise trivialize all our grinding up until this point", because that hasn't happened yet.
At some point here, we need to know what's planned with loot. I find the most discouraging thing isn't when loot doesn't drop, it's when I don't understand the rules. For instance, if I knew that loot was going to quintuple its drop rate in june, or that in june we were going to be pilot level 40 and have to regrind everything, I would very much dial back my play- trying to fill out a couple missing legendary spots and trying to get good inscriptions on pieces that insist on being pickup radius and +-resist is not compelling progression for me if said items will become worthless in two months. Similar to how, when a WoW expansion is on the horizon and progression is pretty much complete for the current tier, there's no compelling reason to hammer out new loot that is about to die.
We need to know this. Just as soon as you guys know it. I'm mostly cross on this particular topic because we should have known this before launch- it's not 2003 any more, after all.
Thank you for the very well though out post! You make some really good points, and I'll be sure to bring it up with systems guys.
Do you have some news so far?
Yeah! We found and fixed a problem, in some circumstances there was a value cached in the system that determined the type (component, weapon, gear, etc) of loot to drop.
This caused the system to be unable to find the correct loot table, and so it used the fallback table. The fallback table isn't suit specific, so you would get component drops for any suit. This only occurred for MW and Legendary drops.
That bug is fixed in the patch which should be coming out soon š. Thanks for all the information, it was a big help trying to isolate the problem!
Just to clarify, in terms of order of operations, is this how it works:
1) Game determines that a Legendary drop will occur 2) Game determines which item it is and draws from the appropriate pool of items?
Basically what I'm wondering is if this change will mean that instead of an off-class legendary we get an on-class legendary? Or instead of off-class legendary we get no legendary?
It will mean it uses the proper loot table, so you'll get a legendary for the suit you're using. š
Having just received my first legendary post-patch in a GM1 Heart of Rage, I have received a Storm legendary while playing Colossus. One of the squad (we've started as a squad of 3 with 1 random via matchmaker) received an Interceptor legendary instead of his Storm. The fix unfortunately didn't work for us. Are we just unlucky or are more ppl having the same bug still as well?
Hmm... Have you seen this since then? There may have been a delay as the updated loot tables were rolled out.
(Patches on the platform don't necessarily roll out at the same time across regions, so we often need to delay pushing live data until after we're sure the patch is live across the world)
(Patches on the platform don't necessarily roll out at the same time across regions, so we often need to delay pushing live data until after we're sure the patch is live across the world)
I absolutely LOVE this sort of information. Little pieces of information like this help temper player expectations as well as not jump to conclusions.
One thing I would like to know is whats the latest a bug can be fixed and still (generally) make it into the next patch? I have some guesses myself but not familiar with turn around times when consoles are involved.
There's not really a hard and fast rule, it all depends on what the fix is. š
If it's a change in a configuration file... It can probably go in right before the patch goes out (lower risk and doesn't require a lot of validation).
If it's a code or scripting fix we're probably going to want at least a day of testing on it. In those cases if it's quite late in the cycle, we need to determine if it's worth delaying the patch or pushing the fix to the next one.
Haven't seen this during our session last night (EU, aka 8 hours ago). We did experiance this bug within the first hour of server uptime post-patch so this might just be it. Thanks for the insight, perhaps a suggestion for visibility would be to include to patchnotes that it may take x hours for the tables to update?
That's a good idea, I'll bring it up. š
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