[2020] Hunt Pass, Ostian Armour, Your Feedback, and A Peak Behind the Curtain

Originally posted by danktr00per

the goal of video games in general is to let players be [REDACTED]

lmfao

Originally posted by Imhullu

But why not just give some amount of extra currency for owning a duplicate item? Why is that so difficult? It's all just numbers on your side anyways.

Originally posted by CreatureTech-PHX

I can't wait to take a peak at what's to come, Jordan.

Originally posted by Nazasu

I loved the fashion in the game. So I bought every armor set that was available to me. I don't like that it's going to be free when I spent the what, 1100 plat? to buy it. It was my main look for a good 6-7 months, and got my value out of it. Now it just seems to me that I wasted around $10 USD for this armor set. It being a free reward is good for players who don't have it, but shouldn't there be SOME way for players to have it, be rewarded with something else other than the armor? Same goes for the Molten Edict being in the hunt pass. Can't there be a middle ground to "If you already have it, here's something you can actually use" like, maybe patrol chests or something I know I'll use?

Just a thought from a Vet. :)

Originally posted by Killing_Laugh

I understand both sides to be fair. I bought the Ostian armour (as well as every other cosmetic in the game) since I started a few months ago. But that's my choice to spend my money on cosmetics. On the other hand seeing it on the free track doesnt 'annoy' me, but as you said, we kind of miss out on a slot. But at the end of the day, I spend more time playing this free game than I do playing a game I spent almost $100 on. So in summary, as a person that bought the armour... Thank you

Originally posted by -SpaceShorts-

December is going to bring some awesome updates to the game as a whole

(´。＿。｀) carry on

Originally posted by SkyeSeraph

As one of the people who did buy that tmog set, ;-;

As a huge fan of dauntless, :)

Y'all have a difficult load to balance, and although y'all sometimes fall short, y'all still bring in wonderful and fun things into the game, and usually fix the things y'all break :P

Now, to die of excitement for Dark Harvest 2020...ΔΩ YΩU CㅏㄹㄹY ㅏ ΛㅏNTЭㄹN?

Originally posted by Meedandfeed34

For me i didnt mind armors after time being free due to the age of it. The major issue for me is that armors and weapon Blueprints are being added to the huntpass with no reward for it. Armors ok fine ill live the major issue is what does a F2p or P2p person get if they already have it? Vault coins isnt much since we get the same sets too often and are at large prices. Plat is actually backwards because you dont need to refund plat back since it cost the company money and time when you are giving change for handouts. Potions and other in game farmable items? No. I rather you guys actually give something else then just plat. As for the elephant in the room for weapon blue prints. Regardless or not they are hard to farm when you gave the hunger as a reward it made me feel abit let down that a weapon that is farmable from a worthy behemoth can be bought and kinda devalues the behemoth itself. I say this because the gameplay loop was and still is small today and even if its elite why add it? Just feels cheap and recycled. Getting a epic weapon should feel rewarding,character building,and a adventure. Not just buy the elite and here you go what would be the point? If i have the prints and weapon what do i even get? I dont mind buying elite but really these need to stop with this weapon prints and free armors with nothing to exchange because heading to 50 as a F2p and getting nothing isnt really cool and getting thru levels and getting farmable rewards isnt good either. This is just my view on it. I dont want plat refunds or anything like that i just want something epic worthy of the time invested.

Originally posted by capeta_spidson

I would say my main problem is with style and aesthetics. I would have no problem buying something that looks like an epic slayer wearing armor that looks like armor instead of cartoonish cosplay. My current transmog is something that fits what I expected my character to look like on mid game (not late game as is right not), someone wearing a badass slayer outfit and not an ANIME ALCHEMIST COSPLAY as the alchemancer outfit looks like (in time, I am not saying that is bad, it's just not my cup of tea).

Originally posted by Manujiiva

I am going to give you an idea, if we can't be refunded of platinium, how about making a full armor set, that would be free only for those who bought the ostian armor? Or maybe that one unknown armor we saw in the alchemy of war trailer...

Originally posted by p75369

I'm actually in the Ostian armour mostly, gloves are too bulky though, so they're swapped out for Shrikes. Other set is based around the barbarian armour. My main cosmetic issue is with the "personality" system, so much of that needs to be included per loadout and not universal, arrivals and emotes primarily, but also banner, flare, hair style, dye, tats, makeup...

there's so much good stuff in there, but I rarely use it because I can't be bothered switching them just because I just picked up a bounty that means I want to switch from my celestial themed pike to by barbarian themed sword build.

Originally posted by Meirnon

I think the majority of criticism has the nuance that we generally don't mind that old store armor is appearing on the pass - we just feel that it's misplaced on WHERE you're getting it.

Putting it on the elite pass would be a different story because at least then you're "paying into" it. I think what's really telling in this regard is that had the store armor just not been on the hunt pass at all there would have been a less negative reaction.

And it knocking themed armor off the free pass feels bad for players who do want to engage with the fantasy of the season but might not have the spare cash to throw around at it - and I say this as someone who is blessed enough to have had the money to buy every hunt pass (having only skipped season 2, and later bought its armor a la carte for twice its price).

For a lot of players, that goal of a cool seasonal armor is the incentive to finish the pass. I don't think I've ever felt like my value off of the elite pass has ever been made less-than because some of the same items were on the free pass. Between weapon skins, the old ultra-armor model (yes, I do like having both versions, as differing materials, dye regions, and emissives make mixing-and-matching fashion more rewarding, particularly in a world where sheens were shelved), the new second-armor model, etcetera, I do not feel discouraged by free players having the opportunity to earn and participate in a little bit of it right next to me. It's all going into the vault at some point in the future anyways, and the way you've structured that, they're gonna have to play platinum for premium access anyways once their free opportunity passes them by.

If this "full plat refund" model continues going forward in particular, we need things to funnel extra platinum into the store, and I think many more players would be interested in supporting the cosmetics side of things if there were more compelling store-exclusive cosmetics (I miss having a complete set of extra themed weapons to go along with the hunt pass, for example), as well as better systems to use cosmetics. I cannot express how disappointing it is that so many of the filler cosmetics just never get used simply because the systems for equipping and using cosmetics like flares, banners, and emotes are underdeveloped. I don't think I'd be alone in saying that not only should all of that be tied to loadout, but that even something like your slayer's appearance, with facepaints and hairstyles and hair tints (among gender style, face, and other options) have no good reason not to be tied to the cosmetics of a loadout as well.

I also think it's a bit facetious to imply that free pass players are trading time and energy while players who spent $10-20 on platinum to buy a cosmetic armor set are trading platinum and that's that. The paying player isn't spending that money on a game they aren't gonna be spending their time and energy in (unless you f**k up and lose their engagement), and the free player isn't putting in more time and energy uniquely for that armor set. Chances are they're investing the same amount of time at minimum, and the paying player is probably investing even more because they've bought into the game at that point and want to make the most out of it. Paying players generally don't spend money supporting a game they don't want to play a lot of, after all. If you really felt that the time/effort was equivalent to the plat spent, then refund the platinum or offer an alternative reward for someone who bought it then put in the time/effort to get to that point in the track.

In the end, I don't think people who continue to support Dauntless by paying and playing particularly mind it when free players also get to participate in the season and look the part. I think most of us are happy to see the free pass having what would be considered generous in most games with a pass system, and continue to buy elite passes because of the value added on top of that. The biggest value hesitation just comes from systems that make actually using most of your rewards fluidly impossible.

TL;DR - I think y'all missed the mark in an unfortunate way regarding how and why your invested players are engaging with the hunt pass and MTX. I think a better perceived value isn't gonna be achieved by simply adding more stuff or by detracting from perceived value elsewhere when much of the bottleneck we're feeling is in not actually being able to make use of the barrage we're already getting, and I hope better calculus goes into figuring out how to get the most bang for the buck for players who want to invest in the game.

Originally posted by WowAUnicorn

Thank you so much for taking the time to address these issues, especially just a few hours after I made my own post about this topic. I'm really grateful to see the Devs give this level of care to their community, which is something very much unheard of in the current industry.

However

We need to address the facts, and I must say that some of the things here don't really give me much security. The way I see this, you guys still plan to essentially keep seasonal cosmetics outside of the free track, which is exactly the problem most of us have been complaining about, instead of just refunds. This is where the real issue lies, and I'm afraid that here you're essentially saying that the practice of keeping F2P players from partaking in the cosmetic season will stay very much alive and kicking for some time to come. Please, don't. It'd be much if one of the two unique sets is placed at the last level of the Free track. This way, everyone can get a tangible reward from completing the Pass, not just paying players.

And let's not forget about the Molten Edict in the Pass. Exotic weapons have no place in the Pass, actually, anything that can be obtained at any time regardless of season, doesn't have much reason to be in a Pass. But Exotics specifically, they are universally agreed to be the worst weapons and armor in the game, AND, by the time a brand new player reaches lvl49 in the HP, they're almost guaranteed to have a couple of exotics, so this is essentially, another dead slot.

Hearing that the december Pass will be vastly different from this one fills me with joy and hope, but please, please, don't lock out your F2P players like this. As is right now, a F2P player has nothing for which he can look to and say "yeah, I was part of the untamed wilds hunt pass".

Edit: Removed that farewell looking last line. I ain't leaving any time soon.

Originally posted by professorlitwick

Hi Jordan! Jordan here! We met in person at PAX West, 2019! I was in line at the Dauntless booth wearing purple shorts and a vaporwave crop top, and you told me that I would probably enjoy a hunt pass that was coming up soon, which I'm sure was referring to the Aetherpunk pass. I figured I'd add my two cents here.

As one of those "handful of players" (would love to know an actual estimate for this rather than an incredibly vague statement) who bought the Ostian armor set this year, this misses the mark. As many others have said, this feels bad both for F2P AND Elite players. With your current setup, F2P players gain little-to-no ability to actually participate in the seasonal experience without a seasonal armor set in the free pass. Meanwhile, players who HAVE bought the Ostian armor set see that this armor set that they chose to spend money on is now given away for free to all players. And yes, I do say All, because it is very easy to finish a huntpass even with just the daily bounty coins. I also take umbrage with your "purchasers trade platinum, free players have to trade time and energy" for the armor set, as it implies that the kind of players who choose to drop Platinum on premium, store-exclusive content are the kind of players who would spend less time and energy with the game, which I feel is patently untrue.

Honestly, I think you should return to the method you took with previous Hunt Passes, from Rogue Elements to Clear Skies:
Two visually distinct armor sets, with one clearly more advanced/involved, with the simpler armor set available at Level 50 on the free track and Level 1 on the Elite track, and the more advanced armor set exclusive to the Elite track. As others have said, F2P players will have nothing to look back on to indicate that they participated in this seasonal event. They can't participate in the seasonal fantasy when all they get is an off-theme (albeit still cool) armor set.

I would also recommend that, in the future, if you ever DO decide to add premium, store-exclusive cosmetics to a hunt pass, they should be limited to the Elite track.

Originally posted by superbhole

i think it'd be a nice feature to have elite hunt passes not expire, but still rotate.

as in, if one buys elite hunt pass, it's not going to expire simply because they couldn't play as much.

so when we're doing bounties, maybe a little toggle option for which hunt pass the XP goes toward would work.

i think this simply allows a whole swath of players to feel better about buying hunt pass without the worry of missing out on all the items even after they put in some money.

and because hunt pass would still rotate, as it already does, the majority of players would be unaffected by this change simply because they already finish hunt passes early enough.

^{(let's pretend we're in an actual clothing store... every month or so they offer a new club deal: if you purchase a 10 dollar club membership, you get 30 socks! every hour that you're in the store, you get one of those socks! uh oh, you could only be at the store for 13 hours this month because life in general happened? sucks to be you haha! no refunds! but check out this month's 30 socks! only 10 dollars!})

Originally posted by swantag

My opinion might not mean much as new player having just started playing 2 weeks ago but damn if this isn’t of the most hearing and open developers

Originally posted by Rappull

Hiya Jordan. Even though it seems I’m late to the party (I was asleep, ha!), I’m glad PXL is speaking out about the matter: very much appreciated! That’s why I’d like to throw in my 2 cents as well, as I’m one of those Slayers who spoke out loudly about this matter, also in my own post here.

I’ll sum up what I think and what my hopes are for what this game will direct towards to: I hope for both F2P and paying Slayers to get something out of a HP that’s remotely relevant to a season’s theme. Sure, full platinum back and a Store set is great, but it has nothing to do with the HP’s seasonal theme. Also, I’m convinced that both aren’t here to stay, resulting in an empty Free track on the HP. I think both F2P and paying players should enjoy it.

Like Meirnon for example said, I too won’t mind having F2Players enjoy some of it all. I mean, I get that a Normal and Ultra armor was simpler to split and having 2 Unique sets feels it should be offered exclusively, but it feels bad. It’d be more appealing to both parties if it was split, like with how other HP’s were when the Normal and Ultra sets were offered (I personally like 2 Unique sets, though).

Anyway, saying anymore would be me repeating myself. I guess I got my point across.

Again, appreciate you reaching out to the community. Hope my message would still be on your receiving end, even though I’m quite late to the party.

Clear skies,

A concerning, but a more at ease Slayer

P.s. Because I’m so late to join in, I now see a few comments got censored. Bummer, now I missed out on that XD Guess I’ll have to see where it would lead to. Just hope the feedback would be helpful and be something to be considered in future HP’s, is all.

Edit: I want to add my wish to how this all would end up like and that is: Anything that’s now gained and possible to set in the Personality pane to be linked to loadouts (Emotes, Hunt Arrivals, facepaints, banners, flairs, etc.) - since this game’s endgame purpose is really all about customization.

Originally posted by Pseudolatry

Hey, here are some possibilities that would allow us to use more things and for more to be spent at the store:

• Pylons are mini-banners, small flags; symbol is your banner icon, colour is according to type of pylon.
• Arrivals, banners, flares and emote should be tied to loadouts, not the account itself.
• Have players be able to use certain rolling emotes (the ones that cycle around) on the airship, set to the loadouts.
• Instead of the "random arrival" option, make it "random arrival from a list you choose".
• Add one dye area to certain weapons, maybe just the aether glow bits or the handle wraps.
• Give the option to switch on or off the Quick Chat and Quick Emote field, or substitute them for a fifth and sixth emote.
• Since the Lantern and Special buttons do nothing in Ramsgate, could they not be used for a second and third wheel of emotes? It would make time in the town more fun!
• Create emotes that interact with each other, like high fives. If someone does the same emote (or a specific matching one) while you're hanging, your characters align up and slap hands. Maybe only in Ramsgate, though. It could be a fun game to find out which ones "combo".
• Make the aether trails an accessory field that can be changed, as opposed to a lantern itself. You could still sell/give them as paired items with lanterns.
• Heck, make an accessory field that's footsteps in the ground that last for a short while, like molten lava footprints, or poison puddles. That way we can have fun running in patterns!
• Make eye-glow an accessory field that can be changed, as opposed to a full head transmog. You can still sell/give them as paired items with head transmogs. You can also rule that they only work with certain head transmogs (no eyes, no glow). FYI, I would pay a lot if I could have an eye glow field I could use my dyes with!

I don't know if any or all of these are viable, I'm a writer, not a programmer, but I feel that when we suggested that transmog stones become one-stone-to-unlock, as opposed to one-stone-per-use, it made a lot of sense and everyone used stones more. Hopefully more people bought them as well. Anyway, hope some of these ideas kind of work!

Originally posted by Vozu_

I'll just piggyback here since I held a conversation about epicness of Exotics on Discord recently. I think Dauntless could milk the whole idea of exotics a lot more, and make it actually feel amazing.

This would be achieved in three steps:

1. Make sure Exotics actually feel Epic and unique. Helmets are good at it, but with weapons only Twin Suns feel this way. Molten Edict used to, when it had lava pools.
2. Remove Exotics as a drop, from the Store and from Trials
3. Create a "challenge list" or a mini-storyline for each exotic. Make people work for it, with a clear goal and maybe some small write-up. Let it be something a bit more exciting than Moyra being all "yo dawg, I found me momma's old notez". I know the exotic break-part were meant to be that, but... they no longer feel like they live up to the level of care the rest of the game does.
4. Profit

Obviously, this is not something that can be developed soon, but I think long-term, this would be the way to make Exotic feel better and become ways of adding content.

Originally posted by Pseudolatry

Hey, here are some possibilities that would allow us to use more things and for more to be spent at the store:

• Pylons are mini-banners, small flags; symbol is your banner icon, colour is according to type of pylon.
• Arrivals, banners, flares and emote should be tied to loadouts, not the account itself.
• Have players be able to use certain rolling emotes (the ones that cycle around) on the airship, set to the loadouts.
• Instead of the "random arrival" option, make it "random arrival from a list you choose".
• Add one dye area to certain weapons, maybe just the aether glow bits or the handle wraps.
• Give the option to switch on or off the Quick Chat and Quick Emote field, or substitute them for a fifth and sixth emote.
• Since the Lantern and Special buttons do nothing in Ramsgate, could they not be used for a second and third wheel of emotes? It would make time in the town more fun!
• Create emotes that interact with each other, like high fives. If someone does the same emote (or a specific matching one) while you're hanging, your characters align up and slap hands. Maybe only in Ramsgate, though. It could be a fun game to find out which ones "combo".
• Make the aether trails an accessory field that can be changed, as opposed to a lantern itself. You could still sell/give them as paired items with lanterns.
• Heck, make an accessory field that's footsteps in the ground that last for a short while, like molten lava footprints, or poison puddles. That way we can have fun running in patterns!
• Make eye-glow an accessory field that can be changed, as opposed to a full head transmog. You can still sell/give them as paired items with head transmogs. You can also rule that they only work with certain head transmogs (no eyes, no glow). FYI, I would pay a lot if I could have an eye glow field I could use my dyes with!

I don't know if any or all of these are viable, I'm a writer, not a programmer, but I feel that when we suggested that transmog stones become one-stone-to-unlock, as opposed to one-stone-per-use, it made a lot of sense and everyone used stones more. Hopefully more people bought them as well. Anyway, hope some of these ideas kind of work!