Original Post — Direct link

I don’t like Dauntless for a simple reason. The dodge roll is not designed in a manner that fits the high speed of behemoth attacks.

For the past five years I’ve been playing From Soft games and Monster Hunter. These games both implement dodge roll to avoid attacks with I-frames the same as Dauntless. Only Dauntless does one thing horribly different. It made the invulnerability active closer to the end of the animation as opposed to the start up. Now, this might seem like a very trivial issue but it is actually massive and causes glaring issues in the combat.

To put it in simple terms, dodging feels unintuitive and punishing for having good reactions. In any other game I’ve played with a similar mechanic you can go into a fight blind and dodge correctly with reaction time alone. You can extend your attacks to the very last moment and then evade just as the enemy would hit you. However, this no longer works in Dauntless and any new fight becomes an exercise in futility. Any attack that has lingering hit boxes and long active frames can also be impossible to dodge in Dauntless.

The Boreus spin jump is a good example of the incoherence between slayer mechanics and monster mechanics. If you are forced to dodge his head rising up you will be hit in the end of your recovery because you need to dodge so late to avoid the initial hit box of the attack. Only he will come down and slam you when you are finishing the animation and rolling immediately after doesn’t work because you won’t get I-frames soon enough. Pangar will also hit you on the rebound if you need to dodge the startup of his tail swipe.

TL;DR - the invulnerability frames on your dodge come out way too late for you to play reactive and thus ruins the feeling of deliberate and skillful combat for me.

Edit: it seems the generally agreed upon diagnosis is not that dodging actually has super delayed iframes compared to other games but the hit detection being server side is simply unreliable. Whether this is true or not is up to a developer to comment on I suppose.

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almost 5 years ago - /u/crash7800 - Direct link

Hey Everyone!

Thanks for everyone who weighed in and shared your experiences and feedback. It's critical to making Dauntless the best game that it can be!

Skill and mastery are at the core of the Dauntless experience. Being a Slayer means mastering the art of Slaying - knowing the intricacies of your weapons, the edge that your armour gives you, and the basics of combat (which includes dodging).

We're glad to see this conversation revolving around other high-skill titles like Monster Hunter and Dark Souls (which we are big fans of, too!), because it shows us that you also want this challenge and skill. Our goals are for A) Combat to be as intuitive as possible and for it to reward your skill and dedication. B) for combat to feel fair, predictable, and rewarding. And if that's not the experience that Slayers are having - we have work to do (and we're excited to do it!)

We know that we have work to do when it comes to better communicating the impact of iframes in the game. And we also know that we have technical work to do - including a bug which may result in "false hits" that we have made a top priority to solve quickly.

And, just to make sure that y'all know that you're not crazy, please do know that iframes start immediately when you dodge (with the exception of the chain blades which have a start-up time). If you're getting got when you shouldn't then there may be a technical issue at play or a bug. We're digging in!

Thanks again for everyone's patience and attention. We will keep you updated and involved in ongoing developments <3

Clear Skies!

TL;DR - Thanks for the feedback and ongoing discussion. We have work to do here and we will keep y'all in the loop.

almost 5 years ago - /u/crash7800 - Direct link

Originally posted by deapee

I don’t know how to ‘summarize it’ - other than I definitely get hit at times that I logically shouldn’t. 100% certain of it. I get the different wind up times, and that’s fine - but the results are not consistent. I do not believe my internet connection is to blame - I feel like it’s something with the mechanics or internal logic of the game’s code.

[Sticky comments are being weird so I'm going to reply to this top comment as well <3 ]

Hey Everyone!

Thanks for everyone who weighed in and shared your experiences and feedback. It's critical to making Dauntless the best game that it can be!

Skill and mastery are at the core of the Dauntless experience. Being a Slayer means mastering the art of Slaying - knowing the intricacies of your weapons, the edge that your armour gives you, and the basics of combat (which includes dodging).

We're glad to see this conversation revolving around other high-skill titles like Monster Hunter and Dark Souls (which we are big fans of, too!), because it shows us that you also want this challenge and skill. Our goals are for A) Combat to be as intuitive as possible and for it to reward your skill and dedication. B) for combat to feel fair, predictable, and rewarding. And if that's not the experience that Slayers are having - we have work to do (and we're excited to do it!)

We know that we have work to do when it comes to better communicating the impact of iframes in the game. And we also know that we have technical work to do - including a bug which may result in "false hits" that we have made a top priority to solve quickly.

And, just to make sure that y'all know that you're not crazy, please do know that iframes start immediately when you dodge (with the exception of the chain blades which have a start-up time). If you're getting got when you shouldn't then there may be a technical issue at play or a bug. We're digging in!

Thanks again for everyone's patience and attention. We will keep you updated and involved in ongoing developments <3

Clear Skies!

TL;DR - Thanks for the feedback and ongoing discussion. We have work to do here and we will keep y'all in the loop.

almost 5 years ago - /u/crash7800 - Direct link

Originally posted by Turdfox

Thank you for the response! I was really hoping to get a definitive answer on how these abilities are supposed to work as they felt like it should be instant when working correctly and the “delayed knockdown” issue seemed to support that. However a lot of opposing opinions were flying around so I wasn’t sure if I was just crazy.

Hopefully this is an issue that can be resolved in a timely fashion without overworking yourselves. I can see myself putting some time and effort into the game if it only was a bit more consistent.

Hopefully this is an issue that can be resolved in a timely fashion without overworking yourselves. I can see myself putting some time and effort into the game if it only was a bit more consistent.

Deal!

almost 5 years ago - /u/crash7800 - Direct link

Originally posted by TheBetterness

You guys are freaking amazing, your transparency warms my heart!

It's our pleasure. Thanks for playing!

almost 5 years ago - /u/crash7800 - Direct link

Originally posted by darkfight13

Thanks for the response. It's always nice and reassuring when developers/companys are active with their community.

Always nice and reassuring to have a passionate community <3

almost 5 years ago - /u/crash7800 - Direct link

Originally posted by Dawg_Top

please do know that iframes start immediately when you dodge

That's a huge suprise for me. I could swear they were by the end of the dodge. Playing chainblades is such a pain because it feels like Iframes start when you start walking/attacking after dodge.

We are also taking a look at the chain blades to figure out if this is how we want to keep it.

almost 5 years ago - /u/crash7800 - Direct link

Originally posted by not_a_profi

Tbh i feel like it's mostly new players, who have not enough experience with the game and give this feedback. I like how the roll works besides the fact that it's server based. All I can wish for is a client based hit detection, it would help a lot. Even if there will be cheaters - I'm sure most players will appreciate their own experience, especially in PvE game.

All I can wish for is a client based hit detection

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubKUMlEppAs

We hear you. We're always working on our tech and the best possible solution for all of the factors involved. I would explain them, but someone once asked me to reset a router and I got a nosebleed.

almost 5 years ago - /u/crash7800 - Direct link

Originally posted by tarix76

I could be wrong about the root cause but us Oceanic types feel like latency is a factor. Please include this in the testing!

Will do!

almost 5 years ago - /u/crash7800 - Direct link

Originally posted by Milkador

Seriously, after playing games with devs who don't care about community input, this warms my soul more than I can express.

Just make sure you and the team have enough time to spend with your families! As much as we love the game, updates and comments like yours, we understand that y'all have lives too! (Although once this issue is fixed... maybe i wont have a life outside Dauntless) ;)

Thanks!