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I don't mean in a mechanical kinda way. I like the fact that it is challenging. But the entire idea of beast hunting with multiple people i.e. companions is so dull. The game just boils down to damage. Do enough of it and there is no real reason to pull people. You don't need a hammer guy to stagger and interrupt. You don't need a guy with tough or gaurdian to tank certain hits for you or stop an advance. Or a guy who specialises in part damage to skin the monster slowly. You don't need a guy with medic or mender to heal. You want 4 guys that can hit like a truck and maybe dodge a few attacks. (I play on my console so everything might not feel the same to pc players)

Half of the items in this game makes no sense.

Why would anyone want to not get staggered every 15 seconds when you can fill it up two other better perks?

Why does iceborne synergy's with what is meant to be the height of risk reward? Why isn't it instead a buff that triggers when someone drops below 50% and on a cooldown?

What is the deal with the cell 'strategist'? Are you suppose to constantly roll around and help with a 150 shield?

Why is the engineer perk taking away my healing all to give me a wider aoe? Why not make engineer perk a unique perk that allows the use of pylons with pylons being able to be constructed seperately when the engineer perk is chosen and balance the perk around that? Or make it a legendary helm that takes away a cell slot for the ability to use pylons instead.

Why can't my molten edict cannon ball interupt someone but my weighted chain blades can?

While we are here, WHY can my chain blades interupt if they are meant to be played with finesse? Why would chain blades have both the ability to interupt and dodge using its mobility while others are left rolling? I agree every weapon should be able to interupt in some form but interupt should be harder for faster weapons and easier for slower heavier weapons. And yet I can get someone down easier with my chains due to longer range and sweep.

Why is poison pulling a potion and NOT a cell? Like a cell that makes similar to how fire proof reduces the duration of poison and at 4+ gives the ability to pull poisons for a buff every x seconds?

Why does the insulated cell at 6 not allow people to pass through the Stromclaw cage? Wouldn't that make it atleast somewhat useful? Else what's the use? Oh no I can't use the tonics I already used? The most scary thing about it not being able to use flask gamedy you can literally wait out shock with no repercussions. Frozen is hard CC. Burning and poisons are DOTs. Atleast you can justify that. Not being able to use or interact with items is not something that is really worrisome when you can jump and dodge around.

Speaking of anti elemental cells, Molten. Why isn't it more support focused cell? It's practically broken in the sense that it makes so much sense when fighting a fire behemoth but also makes sense just to have it because it buffs your general stats reliably. Why isn't it something like,"Every x seconds, drop a ball that can be picked up to gain y amount of fire resistance. At 4 drop 2 with y resistance. At 5 drop 3. At 6 make you immune to burning" because right now, WHY would anyone take Fire resistant over Molten is beyond me. Infact, why not just make Molten and fire resistant one cell? Situational invulnerability is so much better than weak general invulnerability. Similarly frozen can be bunched in with sturdy to give anti CC where you get out of CCs faster and at 6, you get the ability to neglect a CC every few seconds.

And so on.

But the most frustrating thing of all is why is this gane so boring when I am playing with my friends? We aren't exactly communicating what is happening on the field. I think the most communication we have normally is,"I am down" when they need a revive. Aside from that, it's just us dealing damage. We have no roles. It's either we have the damage or the thing we are fighting has the damage and we are trying to exhaust each other health bars.

And the thing is, there are some hints of brilliance on the game as it is. I like fighting the Skarn as a hammer because the hammer breaks the Skarn's stone skin. It gives my weapon purpose. Similarly, when I fight Hellion, I supply molten to my team mates where possible.

Also stagger damage is the most under applicable thing ever. You spend so much time damaging the behemoth to do one 5 second stun. And unless you have the against staggered cell, you have no adv other than getting in some free hits which is crucial to some builds, I agree. But you know what's more cruicial? 4 people with axes one shotting it. If you can just kill it, why stagger it? Death is the best cc. Why not make staggered beast more vulnerable and staggering actually matter? Not talling about interupts. I think interupts and actual staggers should be different. Interupts should give you shorter windows and no other adv than the attack failing and you getting a chance to counter attack since interupts aren't terribly hard to do. Stagger should have a longer window where the behemoths are more vulnerable even without perks.

And could you for the love of GOD please nerf the damage. Please. A match shouldn't be over instantly no matter how good you are. Like even with expert ability, you should not be killing monster of equal power under a minute. The fights should atleast last a good minute if done by veterans and it should last longer for group of 4 people who aren't as good as them.

And just going all offence should be punished. One of the main reason no one really goes any defensive perks is there is no 'real' downside to offensive perks but the upside is amazing. If someone want to go a completely offensive build, make them dance on the knifes edge. Put them through a 'dante must die' mode every time they pull that sh*t and let only the best pull it off. Let it be a matter of skill and not numbers.

I feel like Dauntless would be a better co-op monster hunting game if there was actual strategy and thought to it. If people could have roles they could play as in the battle field where different weapons have a chance to shine and there is a flow of information between the different roles. Like there is a purpose to each person other than to just add to the damage chart. 4 people going dmg should still be able to kill hard bosses but a well rounded team should be able to do it easier

It doesn't mean it should affect the single player experience in way that enforces multiplayer. It however can change into a more completionist role where the challenge isn't if you can beat a monster but rather if you can master a weapon that is required to hunt down a certain monster. It shouldn't be impossible to beat monster with any weapon mind you but rather each weapon has advantage to it. For Eg. Skarn and alike should be easier to tackle with heavy weapons. Razakiri and Shroud should be easier to tackle with Ranged weapons. And quick enemies that move around a lot like Embermanes should be easier to deal with mobility based weapon like chain blades. You can still kill Skarn by taking adv of his armour peeling off when attacking with other weapons and other flying or mobile enemies with interupts but an obvious advantage should be there.

But yeah. That's my thoughts on the game. I am sure you guys will disagree with me and please feel free to. There are just how I felt when I play the game. It's not lived up to the feeling of monster hunting that I thought I was going to feel. It feel more like a monster farming game.

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about 4 years ago - /u/bunheadwhat - Direct link

I want to start out by thanking you so much for writing this all out.

Many people in the community agree with you, and we devs also agree with a lot of what you're saying as well.

For context: we are pushing really hard on our 1.5.0 (December patch) right now, but a lot of what won't be addressed in that patch will be our focus come January and onward. We made a big bet with redoing a lot of the core of Dauntless (1.5.0) and because of that we have been hyper focused on those features as a whole rather than on community concerns individually at a quicker rate. Because of that a few of these concerns will be addressed with that patch, and the rest will be part of the "next up" conversation. I can guarantee you this thread is one that we will cite come Dec/Jan when we are building up our next hit list, and we are already chatting about this post and it's replies internally. <3

There are some things in the works that I feel will help some of the things you're concerned about, such as removing lantern power and the cell rework.

A couple of things I wanted to comment on specifically that you called out:

"why is this game so boring when I am playing with my friends? We aren't exactly communicating what is happening on the field"

We have heard a lot of feedback that currently Dauntless feels like a solo game that you may play with people, and we want instead to make it feel like a co-op game that you may choose to play alone. I would love to hear your opinion on what would make this feel better for you - do you feel you would talk more to your teammates if their were reason to? What would those reasons be? And do you feel that would make the game more fun for you?

"there are some hints of brilliance on the game as it is. I like fighting the Skarn as a hammer because the hammer breaks the Skarn's stone skin. It gives my weapon purpose."

Thanks for saying this. I agree, Skarn vs Hammer is imo an amazing example of us doing "classes" well. Hammer beats rock, it feels better to fight Skarn with a Hammer than any other weapon.

"And could you for the love of GOD please nerf the damage. Please. A match shouldn't be over instantly no matter how good you are."

I am really excited to hear your thoughts on Hunting Grounds. It's the "endless island" mode that we have been working on, and it includes having multiple Behemoths on islands + "island events" where you have to fight tougher battles for more rewards. It could be that the damage still feels bad in this setting, but I am hopeful that it (as well as taking away lantern power from escalations) will help with at least some of the frustration of fast fights.

TLDR: We agree with tons of stuff you're saying here. Hopefully 1.5.0 will address a lot of these concerns, and then we can more onto tackling the rest in early 2021!

about 4 years ago - /u/bunheadwhat - Direct link

Originally posted by superbhole

This is a lot. I'ma do my best to find your best points. Some of them repeat.

You're kinda late to most of the conversation, though.

A lot of the very stuff you addressed is changing in December.

The game just boils down to damage.

They're removing lantern power that we got from Escalations. It was pretty pointless, and made skill less important.

Half of the items in this game makes no sense.

We all agree, slayers and developers alike. Cell rework is literally at the top of their list, if I'm not mistaken.

Why can't my molten edict cannon ball interupt someone but my weighted chain blades can?

This one's pretty off-topic, but since I'm a real molten edict main, I'll answer.

It was supposed to be a tradeoff, every other hammer got a concussive blast with stupidly short range for booping. Molten Edict got a long range attack, but it can't boop.

Most players make the mistake of playing Molten Edict like a hammer, especially with this +200 lantern power, because for all other hammer the meta is: uppercuts, aetherslam, repeat, dodging when necessary. Using the whole kit for hammer is a drain on both damage and stamina.

But Molten Edict lets you use the whole hammer kit and still provide a constant flow of damage, filling in windows of dps where other hammers have completely empty gaps.

The aetherslam lava ball hits 2 times per shell. The bouncing lava ball is homing. Charged ranged shots deal 2 hits per shell. Full charge leaves a fire puddle.

Can you see yet, where molten edict can do damage in the gaps where other hammers can't? I hope so, because I could go on for hours about how edict is the best weapon in all the ways of fun and skill.

Something something, why aren't cell effects combined, etc

See: Cell rework.

Something something, stagger pointless, could you for the love of GOD please nerf the damage.

See: Lantern power being 100% removed

Let it be a matter of skill and not numbers.

You and I agree on this. I think the current meta is ass. The stinky, unwashed, lazy kind of ass.

The competition for trials was getting more like,"who can use the same build but get a better behemoth location on drop in"

And to have to consider that endgame? That puts me off in all sorts of negative ways.

4 people going dmg should still be able to kill hard bosses but a well rounded team should be able to do it easier

I think you're trying to say that if it were a footrace they should both end up neck-and-neck at the finish line.

Unfortunately, there just isn't that much depth yet, I agree. But they're trying.

Vent mounting was a nice try to appeal to quickety click quicker clickers, but something about narrowing the move list doesn't do it for me.

The poison seemed like a way for those healy supports to get a foot in the door, but it's way off the mark right now because it's not how healy supports are in this game.

Healy supports in this game are pre-emptive, or post-downed.

Healing pylons, lifeleech tonic, guardian-fortress boys... it's all set-it-and-forget-it for supports.

What would be nice is if we could use that terra effect effectively. Or all elements, really. Like, a clear but gradual indicator that the element effect is building up, and the next like, any lantern hold will trigger the element.

It's not lived up to the feeling of monster hunting that I thought I was going to feel. It feel more like a monster farming game.

I think of it like this:

Monster Hunter is the hunt: tracking, trapping, chasing, baiting, all the adventure of before the slaying. Is it a bad thing? Nope, that's its niche.

Dauntless is the game that you could picture in an arcade-style cabinet when compared to Monster Hunter. Is it a bad thing? Nope, that's its niche.

I am definitely hopeful that 1.5.0 will address a lot of the community concerns that are mentioned in the original post and I appreciate you advocating for it <3

about 4 years ago - /u/bunheadwhat - Direct link

Originally posted by obsalex

I agree on around 50% of what you said, as in yes the game needs to require mastery of a weapon to kill things fast, yes we should have a diverse party to take care of monsters BUT with changes as such the game would feel WAYY to much like monster hunter's small copycat brother, because what makes dauntless beautiful IMO is that you can become strong, it's not monster Hunter where a hunt at max level lasts an hour, it's instead possible to become stronger thanks to "risky" Cells for damage up, and I'd like to remind you how did it FEEL to fight and beat your first shroud/riftstalker, it was hard wasn't it, but now they are way easier to defeat all because you grinded the equipment, became stronger and this is your reward, kicking a monster, who previously destroyed you, so hard they disappear in aether dust.

this is your reward, kicking a monster, who previously destroyed you, so hard they disappear in aether dust

Hahaha, I like the way you put that

about 4 years ago - /u/bunheadwhat - Direct link

Originally posted by danydh

thats why i quit the game.

yes the game is fun buts legit all grind. grind to increase damage unitl you can post your one shot videos on reddit. that seems to be the end goal. if you want a game to waste time with a friend, then the game is fun. but solo playing is braindead boring

Question: Do you tend to play solo only?

about 4 years ago - /u/bunheadwhat - Direct link

Originally posted by Coromaru

I think you really hit the nail on the head. Specially when talking about playing with friends.

Dauntless use to be a much harder game. A game that required you to work as a team. Rare drops were earned by focusing and breaking the same part 2-3 times.

Ultimately for me the issue is the game has become to much of a joke. Killing a behemoth without it moving isn’t a challenge and our power allows us to do this. Every behemoth is slowly getting a interrupt which is more free damage.

Where as fighting a constantly active behemoth for 10-20 minutes like we use to can be very challenging.

I see that you have the speedrunner tag -- do you feel that more end-game content would help you feel better about Dauntless? Or more teamwork needed in general?

about 4 years ago - /u/bunheadwhat - Direct link

Originally posted by frostyjokerr

As an end game player, I see your grievances and can agree in many fashions, but boring?

I got to the point where the game became a lull and me and my boy just steamrolled through everything, completing Hunt Passes by the weekend’s end, completing missions and eventually finishing most of the mastery.

After a while, we were just like “what do we do now?” So we just got innovative and challenged ourselves. We would make just bullshit classes, still powerful because weapons and armor are max, but we would go cell-less, or use ridiculous combos of cells. It keeps us entertained, challenging ourselves with ridiculous shit. Lol

Maybe, though, you are fading away from the game. You’ve lost the flame you once had for it, and that happens. I’d wait for Dauntless Reforged to make any final decisions about leaving though.. seems pretty fun!

I love that you make your own fun in the end-game.

Is there anything that you would look forward to as an end-game player that doesn't currently exist in Dauntless?

about 4 years ago - /u/bunheadwhat - Direct link

Originally posted by MagganonFatalis

want instead to make it feel like a co-op game that you may choose to play alone.

Why are y'all not allowing solo play in hunting grounds then?

And why are there so many un-solofriendly mechanics in in Dauntless?

We have heard a lot of feedback about no solo/private hunts in Hunting Grounds and we are talking about how to best tackle that. No news yet, but we are having some conversations about it tomorrow. I wrote a longer reply in this thread if you want to take a look!

I find it interesting that you find it unfriendly to solo currently, because a lot of feedback that we hear is that it doesn't feel collaborative enough.

about 4 years ago - /u/bunheadwhat - Direct link

Originally posted by Serrishtar

"make it feel like a co-op game that you may choose to play alone."

How do I choose that if Hunting Grounds has no solo queue? I'm confused.

Hey!! I wrote a longer reply here, but TLDR: We originally planned Hunting Grounds to have no solo/private match making, but since getting a lot of feedback around that we are having some really good internal discussions on how to move forward with it in a way that makes sense for the community! Will have more news on that front soonTM