devtrackers.gg
Hi /r/DeepRockGalactic, I am writing this post to provide some new player feedback. I had been considering typing one up for a week now, but wasn't sure if the subreddit or the discord were the appropriate place. After seeing a similar post on here yesterday, I decided to take the plunge on the subreddit, so here we go.
Before I go further, I feel it's important to define the purpose of this post. I intend to provide general feedback and my impressions of the game, including explaining some aspects that you as a reader might feel needless on a subreddit dedicated to the game, but I want any devs reading to understand what design decisions are understood and what aren’t. Some of the post will read as negative, as is the nature of criticism, because I'll be listing things I would like to improve in the game. However, I want it clear that I love this game. I bought it on March 6th. At time of writing, it is March 19th and I have reached 63 hours of game play (not having played today, that’s an average of 5.25hrs/day), and every one of those days I've been eager to get my daily obligations completed so I could play DRG until I go to bed. The game is so good. Rock and Stone, Brothers.
Now to get into the method with which I play, as I feel this informs my feedback for the devs. I bought this game with five of my friends at the same time. None of us had played prior. The game group is a consistent three of us, with the other two joining around 25-50% of the time, not simultaneously, meaning our group is always in private games with three to four dwarves at any given time, occasionally only two. Of all five of us, I am the one who has played the most. I have only ever played in private games, no joining public ones. As far as difficulty goes, we have so far fluctuated between Haz 2 and 3 (we play Haz 2 when one of the two friends who are not in the core three joins, as they still aren't completely used to the game's mechanics). We intend to push into Haz 4 and 5 soon, as the three core of us all have our first promoted dwarves. And for those who care, the core three prefer Scout (me), Engineer, and Driller, though our Driller plays Gunner whenever one of the other two joins (who prefers Driller), and the last of the 5 prefers Gunner, though he has yet to play any of the other dwarves.
Dwarves
To start I want to discuss the individual dwarves and their balance compared to the others. It is worth noting that I am a big fan of the balance theory of always buffing and never nerfing. It never feels good in any game to have your preferred character/class nerfed in the interest of balance, but it always feels good when you get buffed. I understand this isn't always possible.
I will not be discussing cosmetics or general looks. My only comment there is I would love to be able to change flare color. Specifically, green seems to be the worst in how the light interacts with the colors of the various caves, while yellow and blue are the best at being able to actually see things. Moreover, it would be cool to change flare color to something other than the 4 classes (white, orange, pink, etc.).
Here's my current levels on all the Dwarves:
Driller: Level 16
Engineer: Level 15
Gunner: Level 12
Scout: One promotion, level 7
Given I do not have all of the Overclocks unlocked all of my discussions will be based on the base weapon and available modifications, so when I say "max ammo" or other such statements keep this in mind.
Scout
I am starting with the Scout because I want to start positive, and the Scout is, in my opinion, in the best place right now in terms of balance. Scout is my preferred class, and the rest of my group, upon trying Scout for the first time, all made comments about how he was broken compared to their class of choice. For Scout I will go into my kit, given I have unlocked and tried everything he has to offer. I will not do this as in depth for the others, either through having not used the alternate weapons yet or not having notable feedback to offer.
My preference for primary weapon is the Assault Rifle. It is, in my opinion, the best weapon in the game. Solid accuracy at a distance when firing a bullet at a time, and small enough spread to be potent up close with rapid fire, it has great kill potential both at distance and up close. It achieves this without feeling truly overpowered, which is key, by which I mean that the Scout is not a god on the battlefield, but with decent skill he can hold his own. Regarding the Semi-Auto Rifle, I upgraded mine to be a "sniper rifle", with gameplay similar to that of Hanzo from Overwatch, and it does not feel very good, though it is worth noting I do not enjoy Hanzo either. My upgrades place a focus on hitting weak points consistently, and through a combination of my terrible sniper skills and the weapon not gaining enough weak point damage bonus through upgrades, I have no reason to use it over the Assault Rifle. Someone who is a much better "sniper" would be able to provide better feedback (of which our Driller is eager to try, but he's not bothered yet).
My preference for secondary weapon is the Shotgun. I think it has much better synergy with the Assault Rifle than the alternative of Submachine Gun, and it feels so much more powerful too. I also have a bad habit of wanting to use the Submachine at distance, when it's spread really makes it only useful at the same distances as the Shotgun. Of all the Scout's weapons and tools, the Submachine is really the only one I think needs to be buffed or even reworked.
Regarding the Scout's support tools, I think both the Grapple Gun and Flare Gun are balanced well. Use of the Grapple Gun took some getting used to, but I truly enjoy the feeling of using it now, similar to enjoyment of a Spider-Man game. I have fun by being very precise with it, landing right where I want to, hooking the ceiling and letting go at the right time so my momentum carries me in an arc that I don’t take fall damage, and using it to get out of sticky situations is a very rewarding feeling. To be honest it's almost too powerful, and I truly worry it will get nerfed in the future, however I think the intent is to have the Scout be the most mobile of the dwarves and this thing really does the trick. Likewise, I also think the Flare Gun is in a very good spot. Not too many flares, but not too little. I currently have both upgrades to prolong burn time, and I still find myself wishing they would last longer, but at the same time I enjoy needing to track the ambient light during periods of drawn out fighting, and having to worry about my positioning to have time to shoot more flares when needed.
To sum up Scout, I personally think he is well balanced to the game, and the devs should strive to make the other three dwarves feel as good to play as this. My favorite things about the Scout are his mobility and that in combat his most important aspect is positioning. He feels the right amount of frail while also packing the right amount of punch.
Driller
I will move on to Driller, and move through the rest of the dwarves alphabetically. I believe that the Driller is in a really good place in terms of balance, and only needs a little tweaking to feel as good as the Scout does. In specific, I greatly enjoy that the Driller can be built for both offense and support, and I feel that his primary weapons are the best examples of providing variable game play of any of the classes.
To clarify that last statement, the Flamethrower and Cryo Cannon actually provide different ways to play the Driller, in a way that only the Scout's two options also do, and I think they do it better than the Scout. Need an offensive presence? Use the Flamethrower and burn your enemies to the ground. Need more of a support role with limited bursts of high offense? Use the Cryo Cannon and freeze your enemies, allowing your allies to score big damage or your axes to obliterate even the largest opponents. I do not have much time on the Cryo Cannon on my account, but our Driller (of the core three players) absolutely loves it, and I definitely understand why.
For secondary weapon, I unfortunately cannot provide much feedback as I do not have the Plasma Charger unlocked yet (just need to buy it). I do think that given the Subata's upgrades, it is the obvious pair with the Flamethrower. I can also provide our Driller's opinions, which are that he hated using the Plasma Charger (and remember this is paired with the Cryo Cannon). He said the damage output did not feel anywhere near as high as the Subata, and he didn't like how long it took the fully charge a shot even with the upgrades.
For the Driller's support tools, I think both are in a great place. I do think the Drills' cooldown time could be a little quicker even with the upgrades, but it is very minor and not at all necessary. It is worth noting that none of my friends nor myself have used the Drills for offense. I tried once and felt that the range was even shorter than the pickaxe, and instead I just use the pickaxe. Speaking of the pickaxe, I think a really good idea for QoL improvement is to make the Driller's Drills also mine materials. Such a change would give the players an additional layer of decision making regarding the Drill's fuel quantity and whether it's worth it to use some on minerals or not. Meanwhile the Satchel Charge feels fantastic. Big boom every once in a while, which is a great addition to the Driller's arsenal, and it sometimes requires teamwork to corral enemies into it.
Overall, the Driller feels really good, and I would only give a couple slight tweaks to make him feel a little better than he already is. Mainly, I would make some of his modifications for his non-primary weapon not so biased towards the Flamethrower (looking at you Armor and Subata having mods to buff experience with Flamethrower but not with Cryo).
Engineer
I find the Engineer feels really good in most areas, but is severely lacking in ranged potential, which seems obviously a part of the design decisions, however none of the other Dwarves are similarly handicapped, making it feel like a poor design. Before anyone says that the turret(s) provides range, they do provide some range, but given the build time mixed with the stationary nature and pre-programmed targeting, I think this is a poor counter argument. Plus, the Hawkeye upgrade, which fixes the targeting issue at the cost of the Engineer being unable to shoot things, is only available at a high level, meaning that until you get to that level there is no work around.
I do want to take a moment to appreciate the devs a little though. For the Engineer's shotgun, you truly gave him a shotgun. Most video games have turned shotguns into this close range, crazy spread weapon, to the point that some games it is only useful at melee ranges. Real shotguns are not like this, and though there is spread it's usually fairly tight (in comparison to video games anyways), and shotguns are used in hunting fowl as well as in sport shooting (e.g. Five Stand). So good on you guys, at least one player appreciates this.
Speaking of the Shotgun, one of my complaints about the Engineer is how similar the Shotgun and the Submachine Gun are. The spread on the Engineer's Submachine is not as bad as the Scout's (at least I don't feel it is), but both of the Engineer’s weapons have this close-to-mid range quality that makes them not feel very different. I personally prefer the Shotgun, however the member of my core group who plays Engineer prefers the Submachine. He claims the submachine has better range, but I don't think it actually does and it just feels that way shooting one bullet at a time rather than 8-10 pellets at a time. It's also worth noting that I think the Engineer's damage output should be slightly adjusted for both of these weapons. It feels much worse than the other Dwarves, and I suspect this is due to the Engineer having the turret, however being attacked by more than a single bug simultaneously makes building a turret unfeasible.
For secondary weapons I have not used the Breach Cutter, but I do think the Grenade Launcher feels fantastic. The right amount of oomph when needed, but limited just enough that you can't abuse it. Looking at the stats of the Breach Cutter it seems to be worse that the grenade launcher, but I've noticed posts stating how powerful it is so I am excited to give it a shot.
The Platform Gun feels great as well, I wouldn't really make any changes. An idea I think would be fun would be to have another modification tier with two choices; one to increase the size of the platforms, and the other to allow rotation of the platforms so they are vertical (press the button for Platform Gun again to rotate, press again to rotate back, etc.)
I'm going to give the Turret its own paragraph because I want to praise the design decision of the 1st tier mods being to get a second turret or buffing the one you already have. It's genius. Placing two turrets allows for amazing setup potential, and really makes the Engineer's play style revolve around battle prep. Buffing the one turret changes the Engineer's focus to ideal placement of the one turret while spending the fight participating instead of refilling turret ammo. It's awesome. I also really like that the Turret isn't given an in game name like Molly, Bosco, etc. It allows me to bond with my turret to a deeper degree. My Engineer friend chose to use two turrets named Timmy and Tommy (TNT), while I chose to use a single turret named Karl Jr.
Overall, I think the Engineer is fun, but could use a couple buffs to his range issue and primary weapon damage, as well as making his two primary weapons feel more different, as their range is too similar and so they sort of fill the same role as each other.
Gunner
Of all the dwarves I think the Gunner feels the worst, though that isn't to say he feels bad overall. Sorry to all the Gunner mains. His damage output is astoundingly high, multiple tiers above the next dwarf, but his mobility is so incredibly lacking I'm a little shocked he's not been buffed. Similar to the Engineer, I have used both primary weapons for the Gunner, but not the alternate secondary. I really like the idea of the Burst Fire Pistol, though, as I love guns with burst fire in other games, but I am saddened at the prospect of giving up the Revolver to use it and find it a little hard to believe it'll be better than the Revolver too.
Both of the Gunner’s primary weapons feel great to use. They perform the same function, but with the Minigun being more effective at range than the Thunderhead at the cost of taking longer to become accurate. This is a great trade off, and one that I think sets a good example for how to fix my complaints with the Engineer’s primary weapons feeling too similar.
I love the Revolver. It feels freaking awesome to use. My biggest worry is that the Burst Fire Pistol won't compete and the Revolver will simply be the obvious weapon choice. I do wish the magazine size was at base 6 instead of 4, but the upgrades mitigate enough that I don't really feel it's truly a complaint.
At our current difficulty levels my whole group forgets about the Shield Generator. We mostly only use it against Detonators at this point, but overall I don't feel qualified to offer any constructive criticism. Of what I've seen used in non-detonator fights I wish it lasted a little longer at base without mods.
Now for my big complaints regarding the Gunner, his Zipline Gun. The thing only has 3 ammo and incredibly restrictive angle and distance requirements, and if you want to use mods to fix any of these issues they all compete as the three Tier 1 upgrades, with distance also being the only Tier 2 mod. I find this to be incredibly restrictive, especially when you consider all three issues together. I've leveled my Gunner to level 12, and in at least 75% of the maps I played I either ran out of ammo far earlier than anyone was willing to call a supply drop for, or when I did want to use one of my very limited uses either the distance or angle would not allow me to do so. To add insult to injury, when I would run into an issue of angle or distance, it was 80% of the time such that getting the angle to be okay would result in the distance being too far, and getting the distance to be okay would mean the angle was not acceptable. Words cannot describe how frustrating it is to be in such a situation, as I had to learn to not use the ammo willy-nilly, but then the few times I did feel it was acceptable I couldn't use it.
I suspect most will say to this something along the lines of "git gud scrub" but I truly feel it is in the best interest of the game to address the mobility issues of the Gunner to improve his overall experience. None of the other dwarves have to buddy up, but the Gunner has no other option than to stick next to the Driller or Engineer to get around lest you accept your fate of pickaxing tunnels, which takes so painfully long it's really not worth it. As I said in the beginning, I really feel like all the dwarves should be all-around fun to play as, and right now the Gunner's mobility is actively holding back my enjoyment.
My personal feelings to fix this revolve around three solutions. For the first two, they are two sides of the same coin. Fixing the ammo, distance, and angle issues don't need to address all three. I think if you increased ammo count you don't need to fix the distance or angle, alternatively fixing the angle and distance means you don't need to fix the ammo. To summarize, I think the ziplines need to either be more abundant for frequent use within the restrictive requirements, or the requirements need to be laxer so that when the player does decide a situation warrants using an ammo, they are going to be capable of doing so. Of these two I prefer the latter, as it means that the player's decision making is exercised, something I think makes for great game design.
The third solution has nothing to do with the Gunner, and everything to do with map generation. Make it so the game generates more rooms that are able to make good use of the zipline. I've noticed that the game does make suitable rooms fairly often on Complexity 1, and almost no suitable rooms with Complexity 3. This solution, of course, is the most intensive of the three, so solution two in the above paragraph is still my preferred one.
Overall, I really enjoy using the Gunner, but find myself frustrated very often with his mobility. By very often I mean nearly every map. In two player games with the Scout it’s basically unbearable to play Gunner, as I often have to waste five minutes using the pickaxe to carve out a staircase to reach the floor of a room, to only have to do it again in the next room, and the next, and the next, meanwhile my Scout friend has already cleared the room I'm digging down to and has moved on to the next one. This wouldn't feel so bad if I was able to ever actually use the zipline but often the drops are at too sharp of an angle, or the nearest anchor point is too far, or a mix of both, or there is a suitable anchor point but dropping from the zipline is too far of a drop to handle, etc. Making the mobility of the Gunner less reliant on others would seriously improve the experience playing him, to the point that I think it's wrong to not at the very least consider buffing.
Progression
Next, I'd like to talk about progression. I'll start with a summary so you can skip this section if you'd like. Progression feels really good except for two things; Forging and Deep Dives are locked off until you promote your first Dwarf, and buying upgrades and cosmetics is too costly.
Leveling
I feel the dwarf leveling in this game is handled at a really good pace. The pacing results in obtaining new modifications at a good speed. You don't unlock them so quickly that you immediately have a fully outfitted dwarf, while it isn't so slow that it feels like ages before you get the next mod tier unlocked. In addition, spreading out the levels for when mod tiers on different items unlocks means there's almost always a new set of mods to look at after each level.
Player levels I think could come a little faster, however with them only being tied to the cosmetics currently I really don't think it’s an issue worth discussing at length.
Promotion
Promotions themselves aren't a problem, they simply happen when you reach level 25 with a dwarf, however the content your first promotion unlocks takes much too long to get to. I promoted my Scout some time between the 30-40 hour mark, at which point the player gains access to Deep Dives and has to undergo a fairly long assignment before finally unlocking the use of the Forge. It might be possible to use the Forge prior to completing that assignment if you run a Deep Dive, or the Deep Dive might be locked until after the assignment too, I’m not sure. However, what I can say is that this is a very long time to make a player wait for even an explanation as to what those two machines in the Space Station are. At the very least, I think the game could do a better job explaining what Deep Dives and Forging are at the beginning, allowing the player to better understand what it is they are working towards at the end game.
Tutorials/Explanations
Speaking of explaining things, I think a lot of the features of this game could use better explanations/tutorials. The tutorial level itself is fine, no real problems there, but there’s been a number of times where various game elements completely confused my game group. Some examples would be my discovering holding the throw button throws an object farther only after having played for 61 hours, or my group unlocking Machine Events after promoting, but missing the fact we could redeem a Blank Matrix Core after completing our first one, discovering we could redeem on the second but one of us mashed the use button and didn’t realize he could choose between three options, and then finally us completing a third one without any Blank Cores and I finally looked up what the events were and how they worked on the wiki. Explanations for what the Forge and Deep Dive are also fit here, though I mentioned them before.
Upgrading and Cosmetics
Upgrades feel really good, many are noticeable and feel substantial when purchasing. In only a few instances is this not the case, though I cannot think of any off the top of my head, so I would say this is very positive. However, they are too expensive in many cases, and this expands to the cosmetics too. For the upgrades, the expense is less an issue of credits and more an issue of materials. SO MUCH JADIZ. I am not even sure why Jadiz feels the rarest, but 4 times out of 5 the material I am short on is Jadiz. I originally chalked this up to the Scout needing it the most, but the other dwarves often need it too and I just don’t know why I never seem to have enough. It’s frustrating trying to convince the rest of the party to be willing to run a mission just for you to farm a specific material you are short on, and who knows how often you’ll actually have to do it, or how often another player in the group will be in need of a different material at the same time. This results in more play time, sure, but also causes slower progression for each individual dwarf.
As for cosmetics, they are both oddly cheap while at the same time being oddly costly. There doesn’t seem to be a cost progression, as I would unlock items at a new player level that were magnitudes more expensive than previous items in the same category. In all, the cosmetics really feel like the costs were designed around having a premium currency to use which would make purchasing expensive items much cheaper, however the game does not have a premium currency, so I am unsure why the devs chose to use a cost model that mimics games which do. An example off the top of my head is a hat that costs 18,000 credits (maybe a little more). Given Haz 2 rewards, many missions give 2,000-3,000 credits a piece, which means running somewhere from 6-9 missions just to have the credits to afford that hat. I keep expecting to see a pop-up offering me to spend $4.99 for 20,000 credits to get the hat immediately (for the record, please do not put micro transactions in the game, even if it is cosmetic only).
Perks
Perk progression feels slow, but ultimately paced well enough with leveling the dwarves. The perks that I’ve used have all felt tangible, making a small but noticeable difference on my gameplay, with only a couple exceptions feeling borderline mandatory. My only complaint is that the game is really bad at tracking perk progress. I got the perk for leveling the Engineer 5 times when my Engineer was level 15. This has happened a lot, across all the different type of Perk Point requirements (completing secondary objectives, running X amount of a given mission type, etc.). It’s very possible that if the tracking was more accurate, the progression as a whole would feel much faster, as I would have received many of my Perk Points much earlier.
Enemies and Difficulty
Enemies
Many of the enemies in the game feel great, there’s only a few that are an actual pain to come up against. The enemies that earn the most groans from the group are: Glyphid Spawns and Swarmers, Mactera Grabbers, Mactera Goo Bombers, and Naedocyte Hatchlings and Shockers. When I say groans, I mean it in a way that detracts from the gaming experience, as in the annoyance of having to deal with them kills the fun in the moment. This is in contrast to when enemies like Glyphid Exploders show up, where there’s still the initial call out but rather than being annoying they cause an adrenaline spike as we respond to the presence of the enemy.
I do want to commit an entire paragraph to voice my frustrations with the enemies which can grab the player, currently only the Mactera Grabber and Cave Leech. My group, when playing with only 2 dwarves, have lost missions to these two enemies, mainly the Cave Leech. Not having a default means for the player to escape feels like bad game design, and what feels worse is learning that the ability to self-escape is a perk. I personally think that escaping should be possible (through a mechanic similar to breaking out of ice), and that the perk should only exist for instant escapes (and kills). For those asking how we lost missions, it was due to a Cave Leech killing the one player, and when the other goes for the rescue they get grabbed too, because the Cave Leech’s range is surprisingly long, and we got grabbed before we even tried the rescue because we thought we were far enough away (at least 5 dwarf-lengths).
Difficulty
Though we’ve not played anything beyond Hazard 3 yet, I think some feedback regarding Haz 2 and 3 is worthwhile, as only the most loyal players will likely play beyond these difficulties (just look at percentages for some of the achievements, one example being only 6.9% of all players have completed 100 missions).
Hazard 2 felt good when first starting, but quickly began to feel a bit too easy. Hazard 3 meanwhile still feels really good. It’s just hard enough that we feel challenged, while still being easy enough that it’s rare for one of us to need a rescue. This is where my group currently likes playing, as dying often upsets us more than energizes us. In other multiplayer games this has shifted as our playtime increased, so time will tell if we transition into feeling rewarded for surviving encounters where only one of us lives to rescue the rest.
Miscellaneous
Abyss Bar
I love the addition of the Abyss Bar, it’s such a nice touch. Even though only one beer is actually beneficial, having all the silly effects is a fun way to pass the time, and the barrel game and jukebox add to this. Some suggestions or ideas for improvement would be:
- Make two of the “Today’s Special” beers available at a time, with only one active buff allowed, adding an element of player choice. The two available should still be random in my opinion.
- Allow me to select the dang song on the jukebox!
- Allow me the option to set a preferred dance option, rather than randomly getting one whenever I enter the dancefloor with music playing.
- Fix the barrel game to prevent some barrels spawn and landing incorrectly and force me to lose a shot and my multiplier.
Barrels
I also really enjoy the interactions with barrels in the game, and further enjoy the interactions with Mission Control that result from barrel shenanigans. Does Mission Control have a name? Also fix the bug/glitch where barrel riding results in a dwarf stuck in the floor or a machine. Both have happened.
Flares
I mentioned my desire for customizing the flares near the beginning of the post. Instead of reiterating, I will say that I wish flares recharged a little bit faster. My personal feelings on the matter are that the recharge rate should be fast enough to allow regular use, but not so fast as to allow reckless use, and right now I feel it’s a smidge too slow. One thought I had was to scale the recharge rate, such that it’s slightly faster the more spent flares you have, and it slows each time you recover one. Another thought was to make the flares retrievable, where picking up a lit one gives you a full charge back, while picking up a spent one gives the recharge rate a small boost (you should only be able to retrieve your own flares in this case, as to not allow players to BM others).
Mission Types
My group generally enjoys all the mission types, however the one we like the least is Egg Hunt. Egg Hunt feels like the weird child of Mining Expeditions and Elimination, and it is distinctively worse than both. The other four types aside from Egg Hunt all feel unique and we enjoy about equally.
Regarding secondary objectives, the only one we don’t enjoy as much as the others is collecting Alien Fossils. Given they don’t have an inherent glow like Apoca Blooms and Boolo Caps, they are much harder to notice. They also have a tendency to spawn in much harder to reach locations. I also think it would be cool to have more active secondary objectives instead of the current collect-a-thons. An example would be for the dwarves to locate some special object, like a data card or computer, and return with it to the drop pod when extracting. This can be complicated given the seemingly random spawn point for the drop pod, but it would feel inherently different to the current list of secondary objectives that all feel nearly identical.
Saluting, In Jokes, and the Community
The Salute button is amazing. We use it all the time. It adds so much character to the game that would otherwise be much less apparent. This is doubly true for many of the in jokes within the DRG community. Rock and Stone and For Karl are fantastic, and serve as great in jokes for the community outside the game.
And regarding the community, though this isn’t necessarily due to the game itself, it is wonderful to see a developer specifically try to cultivate such a fun group to be a part of.
Final Statements
I love this game. I truly do, and I see myself playing it for many, many more hours beyond the 63 I’m currently at. In regards to comments, I’m happy to participate in discussions. People who comment to this with anger or attack me directly will not be responded to. I know some of my feedback will seem pointless to some of the veterans among you, especially considering I play at Hazard 2 or 3 and not 5. However, I think it is important to remember that the percentage of players who become “veterans” is very small, and we should all want the game to be positively received by all who play and not just those who were willing to input 120+ hours. After all, I love this game enough to write a nearly 6000-word post about it, and you all love it enough to actively participate in a subreddit devoted to it.
Rock and Stone! For Karl!
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