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Hey fellow miners, i've just finished play testing a deep dive or two and I've got some thoughts to air. I only do this as I believe the Dev's here are one of the few who do actually listen closely. I remember talking months ago when the class upgrades were updated about how the LMG MK2 turret for engy seemed underpowered (As it only gave extra damage at the time) and they added range and more damage to it immediately. I'm nearly 200 hours on this game now so i've got a good understanding of its mechanics as this point, I like to think anyway.

MOVING ON, I have concerns regarding the rate of acquisition regarding Over-clocks and new cosmetics. I finished a Deep Dive solo as Gunner and received a scout beard and "micro bullets" for the scouts Deepcore rifle. I haven't finished the second deep dive yet. I have read several times that Deep Dives are refreshed weekly and their main rewards can only be earned once, limiting Overclocks to 2 per week and currently, new cosmetics to 3 per week. If there are roughly 80 overclocks, providing duplicates aren't a thing, thats 40 weeks worth of waiting you'd need to do to get them all, not including further updates. I personally don't like time gating, it punishes players who like to play large chunks at once, inflating the content over time by literally locking off the opportunities to earn it. Deep dives themselves are quite hefty, they take a little while to play, I'm not sure I agree with the whole "once per week" thing now its in action you know?

It appears that the loot you get is not class locked, so players whom main a single or couple of classes (Like my partner for instance, only really likes Gunner) its entirely possible you could go weeks without unlocking anything for your class, not so much of an issue for multi-purpose miners but I don't think thats hugely fair regardless.

With the cosmetics, it should be noted that they are class locked too, the beard I found was for the scout ONLY. So however many cosmetics there are, the loot pool is technically 4x that amount. Again, it would be entirely possible to have your main class completely excluded for an extended period of time should you get unlucky, I don't think thats fair nor fun as a mechanic. Plus the 4x for the classes essentially massively bloats the loot pool (Depending on how much stuff is in there in the first place though), maybe make them universal? Or you can choose the class?

I don't know what work it would take to speed up the rate of Deep Dive production to allow them on a daily basis or what not, but my suggestion for the time being is - Have the Deep Dives repeatable by different classes and lock the loot to the class playing. If you take a gunner, you get gunner rewards. But you could repeat the dive with your driller and get driller rewards as well, but only once for the week. Whilst i'd personally like it to be daily, I'm sure the Dev team have their reasons for having it weekly for the moment.

Anyway, hope y'all have a good day! Update 25 is looking like fire regardless, barely scratched the surface and its looking real sweet. To the Dev's, I REALLY love your game, keep doing what you doing and I hope you find this feedback useful. I don't want to be a mood killer, but I gotta get this out. Rock and Stone to the bone lads!

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over 4 years ago - /u/GSG_Jacob - Direct link

Hi, just to expand upon it briefly - Deep Dives are not meant to be a replacement for the core game, but is an end-game mechanic that is community-focused. One of the goals is to create something that people can talk about more specifically, which is why it is seeded the way it is. We want people to talk about it, compare notes and stories about an expedition, where people share the experience.
Also, don't forget that part of the whole thing with cores will be even more fleshed out with the machine events, where you are supposed to charge the cores. There should be an element of choice involved here, but I'm not sure how the current design is. Oh, and don't forget the new treasure chests.
We're constantly listening to feedback, so we'll home in on the best way to do it along the way.

(I may have gotten some of this wrong since the design process make details change rapidly, but there will probably be a designer coming by soon to correct me)

over 4 years ago - /u/GSG_Jacob - Direct link

Originally posted by Terroking

Personally I think the idea of a seeded run could be a lot of fun, comparing to PoE's labyrinth, but the weekly restriction combined with randomness of the overclocks seems like it might be too much.

Over 100 overclocks was advertised a while back, and even if some are coming later down the road the current experimental system only allows two per week, max, which means you could reasonably grind the max amount of deep dives for over 6 months and still not get a specific one you want.

I feel like class restricting the dives makes a lot of sense personally, in fact I thought it was going to be that way off the bat. It is odd if we need a promoted dwarf to dive, but then aren't necessarily going to get stuff for them. Me and most players I know have the vast majority of time on only 1-2 classes.

I think allowing dives per week per class is a great solution that improves player choice and aligns with the goals of deep dives, while still maintaining a good amount of investment required to unlock everything. That said, I'm just one player and you all have designed a brilliant game, so I'm sure whatever solution you devise will play great, even if the mechanic needs until update 26 to be fully fleshed out.

The machine events should allow for less randomness and more choice (last I checked). We really don't want this to be a grind, and the normal mode should still be fun and viable (thus weekly promoted assignments and treasure chests have been introduced). It's still a work in progress, so we appreciate all feedback.

over 4 years ago - /u/GSG_Jacob - Direct link

Originally posted by Theuncrying

Oh I see. Are enemy spawns also randomly generated or scripted? Because in the first cave of the Elite Deep Dive there's always a horde waiting right behind the first wall, so I'd say at least partially scripted.
I had the impression that Deep Dives were the main event of getting cores and endgame contents, but guess I'll hold my breath until update 26 then.
Being able to grind for cores and overclocks at ones own pace is what I'd love to have and I hope that the machine events will be able to quench that thirst. :)

It's random. The horde is probably due to the mission having an Egg Hunt? One of the identified of Egg Hunts is that you're going in hot, into the glyphid nest.

over 4 years ago - /u/GSG_Jacob - Direct link

Originally posted by Arrevax

Thank you and Pedro for your replies. Is this a confirmation that weekly promoted assignments and/or treasure chests can provide cores? Are treasure chests available during normal missions, meaning it's possible to earn new cosmetics and mods at a very low (RNG-based) rate outside of Deep Dives?

If so, I'm okay with the new system. I'd still rather be able to play randomized Deep Dives any time, but if that's the only thing completely locked behind the weekly timer (along with the leaderboard), that's reasonable. I get that you guys want to create something that might introduce competition, which draws in more players, meta-theorists, speedrunners, etc., which is fine— I'm sure plenty of players will welcome that aspect of the new content. It's just that locking so much content behind time-gated assignments that makes this all so sour; no one wants their regular missions to feel like a waste of time compared to those two or three hours a week when the exclusive rewards are available. The set nature of these weekly Deep Dives means that there will probably be walkthroughs available for each one if the game gains enough players/popularity, which could lead to them being a sort of chore for people who just want to get the new stuff and don't worry about the competitive aspect— while simultaneously devaluing regular missions.

Sorry for rambling.

Can confirm that assignments and chests will give cores, and the system will be expanded upon with the Machine Events in Update 26. Treasure chests are available only during normal missions, and are rare. We're still in Early Access, so we're listening to any and all feedback and taking it into consideration. Edit: I basically repeated most of what I said originally. Should have checked that first. :D

over 4 years ago - /u/GSG_Jacob - Direct link

Originally posted by Arrevax

Apologies for the necro. Did the crates giving cores idea get canned, or was there a misunderstanding? It seems like we're still stuck waiting on weekly assignments to earn overclocks. :(

Man, I can't even remember saying that, let alone that it was like that at the time.

The design process is rapidly changing, so every time I open my mouth before a feature is released, it's a bit of a gamble.

I believe it was changed to be the first stage of the deep dives instead.