Original Post — Direct link

UPDATE 2: tabg only costs 5 bucks if you want to try it. Nirsofttools and sysinternals as well as pc Hunter are all legitimate auditing tools and don't result in bans. My IDA pro ban was because it does include a debuggger but that was my first ban of many many more bans where I wasn't running any or these tools. I'd suggest trying it out before speculation based on what I'm saying...see for yourself. I am not a tabg developer I am just one of the few players left and have almost 1500 hours in game. My only bias is what I experienced and although I'm not exactly a casual computer user and have background in this stuff, I'm not a game developer or anti cheat expert either. I did release several landfall approved mods for both tabg and tabz, so I know a little about game design but not nearly as much as your devs here who I trust. All of these posts I see related to this are all speculation. I'm hoping one of you guys as well as the developers will be able to look into the things I saw and provide some more context and perspective. You wouldn't buy a car without driving it ....why wouldn't you test out the only other implementation of the anticheat as well? If anyone wants to but doesn't want to pay I'll gladly lend out the steam account I created and bought another copy of tabg (created since I had a ban from windows update and landfall was away at some game dev conference I think). I'm just one person on the internet so don't go by just what I'm saying. You are all welcome to the tabg discord server if you like (pm me for a invite) to ask anyone there what their experience was like...

I apologise for stirring up all this trouble but the second I saw this game on equ8s website I felt like I should let you guys know what my personal experience was but you should really ask the rest of the players. I would say check the steam and reddit discussions but they have mostly been purged via landfall moderators.

Again, you guys are extremely lucky to have competent developers... unfortunately landfall can't program their way out of a cardboard box so my questions went unanswered about what I was seeing it doing because they frankly don't have the ability or experience to look into it.

I didn't mean to freak everyone out (though it did freak me out). I just wanted to share my story about my experience because EAC , BE, VAC etc never raised any red flags for me so when I started noticing all the strange things it was doing I looked into it. It's possible that I misinterpreted what I found, but at the same time, I never received a response from landfall or equ8 regarding some of the more suspicious activity I was able to capture. You're developers and I talked again today and are going to press them for those answers to see what they say.

As your developers admitted they hadn't really looked that far into equ8 but they are now and they know more about this stuff than I do. Trust your developers on this one and either look into it yourself, either by asking the tabg players or trying it out yourself but don't just speculate. In fact they even promised me if the answer they received for my issue was unsatisfactory they would drop equ8. This means a lot to me as I couldn't even get an acknowledgement about these issues from landfall or equ8.

I trust your developers and I've only briefly spoken with them, but they know what they are doing more so than I do but most importantly they care about their game and above all you guys, the players, the end users. ...

UPDATE:

Talked to the developers. You have no idea how lucky you are to have actual programmers here...if only tabg was so lucky. To make a long story short, I talked to the developers and how they are implementing anticheat, although still possibly subject to change, i trust they will make the best decision given the information they have. We both learned some things (me about the game, them about the AC) and we left the conversation mutually satisfied with the outcome i believe...regardless of what they end up doing with anticheat.

So i'll be off now...maybe back i'm interested in this game now for more than just the alarming choice of anti-cheat! I stand by everything i said regarding equ8, but you are lucky to have good developers here that care, and that's rare it seems these days. Have a good one!

Hey there!

I come from /r/tabg ....And I thought I could maybe shed some light on how equ8 worked out for us.....which if you look at our game's steamdb chart you can watch as equ8 destroyed it....Not to mention just googling it doesn't exactly bring up flattering search results (all of that stuff is mostly true!).

Any questions, ask me anything, a lot of people from the tabg discord and myself have way too much experience with this garbage and I wouldn't want ANYONE to have to go through the same BS! Constantly getting banned for no reason (windows update was a hell of a cheat it seemed). The fact that it goes through unopened, personal files....list goes on. Tell your developer to pick literally anything else....including nothing at all. It wasn't the sole reason tabg died, but it was at least 51% of it.

External link →
almost 5 years ago - /u/GDFireFrog - Direct link

We’ll be showing Equ8 all of this stuff as we have in the past when somebody brings something like this to our attention. I will update this post with what I learn. We will obviously drop Equ8 if it’s not up to the task. False positives are obviously concerning. The level of inspection that you mention, although not great, it seems to me like it could be the same in all other anticheat solutions with any degree of effectiveness, but I don’t want to speculate and we’ll look into that too. Feel free to correct me if you have inspected different anticheats and have more information in the privacy area. TL;DR: We are gonna look into this and change anticheat vendor if necessary.

I’ll share the full rationale for going with Equ8 at the risk of being a bit too open. With the technical information I extracted from the vendors we talked to, I expect it to be a bit lighter on performance than other competitors and just as good in terms of detection. This is just an educated guess, but usually you can know enough about a product just asking about how they solved specific issues. Admittedly, this is not the proper way to do things, ideally you’d have someone spend a week or two integrating every solution and doing objective testing, then you choose the one that performs the best. We usually more pressing issues to address with our limited resources, and I’ll explain below why there’s not a lot of pressure on us to get it exactly right at this moment.

The main reason, though, is that I thought we’d get better support, as they are in Sweden and are a new player and they need to prove themselves. Obviously a gamble, but since we have a lot of ideas in the area of anti-cheating we’ll have some feature requests occasionally that a bigger player is more likely to ignore. I can chat with Equ8’s lead programmer or CEO anytime I need to. We are also more likely to be able to influence how their product matures. Things tend to crystallize with middleware vendors after they get a lot of clients using their product and then as a client you start getting the answer “well, you are our only client who thinks this is an issue” with increasing frequency. In the meetings we’ve had so far they have been very receptive to technical feedback, which is very appreciated and useful.

Also we would like to encourage competition, just from a selfish point of view, so that this whole segment becomes more economical and effective. We are after all, going to be doing more esports games in the future and cheating will always be one of our main concerns. This may sound like vapid marketing bullsh*t but I actually believe that we can be of significant help putting them on the map and that in turn this will be good for us eventually.

Now, since our contract would allow us to discontinue the service without penalty and these modern anti-cheat solutions are so easy to switch between, I thought it was worth giving it a try.

If Equ8 turns out to be a terrible mistake, switching to another solution like EAC would be very simple. To simplify the integration process, there’s usually just a hook on startup, a hook to identify new players to their platform with an anonymized id, a hook for when a player connects to a game and a hook when a player leaves the game. Their platform does the rest. This is a toy API by game library standards, as integrating any kind of middleware is usually way more complex. By what I’ve heard from these vendors, it usually takes studios a day or two to integrate these modern “lightweight” anti-cheat systems into games (I would put EAC on this same category which is why I mention it, it’s probably what we’d try next if Equ8 turns out to be bad), and looking at the simple API, I would agree that it shouldn’t take more than that. This is why I’m personally not too concerned and I’m comfortable with moving forward with Equ8 with the information I’ve had until now (at least before your post) and provided they clarify these concerns satisfactorily.

As I said, I’ll update with Equ8’s explanations about the info provided in the original post and comments. Also, if the community appears to not be on board with the thought process at display here, that we are being too brazen and that we should play things safer, we may just have to discontinue our relationship with Equ8 right away. We have spent a lot of time and effort in this project and we are not going to take any risks at ruining the experience on launch or alienating the community over a choice of vendor that is very easy to rectify. Also I’d like to reassure people that the idea is not to launch with Equ8 regardless and then find out if it sucks, we’ll be doing extensive testing with hundreds of players before we sign it because first impressions are very important (Equ8 have been very chill at letting us trial their solution for as long as we need to), but even after release at any time we think a different system can perform better for us, we’ll switch. Right now I believe that due to better support and access to their core team we’ll be able to make Equ8 into something better for us. Hopefully as we grow we’ll also have more resources to research and test middleware more exhaustively.

Any other bad experiences that anybody has with Equ8 in any new launches we would really like to know, you can dm Raven on discord (he’s an admin on our server) and he’ll classify the info and pass it along. I’ll also ask Raven to do a casual survey of some people in the TABG community, he’ll hit you up. And although we didn’t have time to objectively test integrated performance against other solutions, the invasiveness aspect is something that we should be able to test running different games with different anti-cheat solutions through a resource monitor.

Cheers.