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Recently I made a post about how mining is less fun now because the ore nodes are harder to find and tiny, and it was a popular sentiment. The dev response was that this change was made so that one person could not easily supply an entire server with metals, and that makes perfect sense. There are very dedicated players who would be happy to spend 12 hours a day doing so, and this needs to be balanced.

However, this only applies to large population servers where people are competing to fulfil the same jobs. On a small server, having 1-2 players being able to provide metal to the entire server is exactly what you want. I really enjoy this game and have hosted a public server for 16 seasons now, and even though at times we were lucky enough to have around 50 interested people playing through the first few hours, it always tends to end up with a half dozen dedicated players organising essential jobs by the time of shooting the meteor.

An awesome replayability aspect of this game is trying out all the professions. One example is if someone wanted to set up camp in the jungle with the purpose of "I'm going to be the brick guy! Everyone is going to have so many bricks!". A year ago, (pre update 10?) this meant buying a kiln from a mason, and then just feeding it clay/sand to make all the bricks they could want, and they also didn't have to crush the coal before it was useable fuel. If they wanted to make furniture, they just needed to buy iron bars for toilets/sinks/bathtubs.

Things are so much more complex now. I'm NOT saying they are worse, but clearly aimed towards interconnecting jobs. Bricks need wooden molds, so a blacksmith's nails and logger are needed. The kiln itself needs it's parts repaired by a mason, and the kiln's furniture now needs a miller's niche powder products in addition to a smelter's iron bars.

From what I've observed and heard, this has made the game less fun for two main reasons. Experienced players are frustrated and impatient from relying on other people to stock all the goods their profession makes (which not everyone prioritises). Also, both new and experienced players usually desire to run off into the wilderness to set up a cosy base in the wilderness. It's a very cosy looking game! But after doing this, the hurdle of having to travel for so many goods becomes apparent, in addition to the settlement mechanics discouraging this and the post-update-10 lack of spontaneously growing plants on empty fertile plots making it hard for players to feed themselves basic food.

Another aspect to this is making all the professions arbitrarily necessary. Upgrades need fertilisers and shipwrights at some point, even if boats aren't needed at all on the map or crops don't lose their nutrients fast enough in the lifespan of the server for fertilisers to matter. As a result, a single player on a small server taking a couple of days off can bar progress for many people, regardless of whether they chose a low-impact job or not.

I could have asked the devs outside of reddit, but I also wanted to get the community's perspective, especially those on public servers. I hope I don't sound hostile, I'm just wondering how much deeper this interconnectivity will go. Will there eventually be separate settings for large or small populations, or is a small population simply not how the game is meant to be enjoyed? Can anyone from large population servers fill me in on how these gradual changes have been taken?

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20 days ago - /u/SLG-Dennis - Direct link

Originally posted by playbabeTheBookshelf

I believed the idea is the right direction, ie. the intention gameplay is cooperation. but the execute is sub-par. I want to point out how Rush did the maintenance right, you just have one station and dump resources in as upkeep. can we do that instead? just have one maintenance station for everything you own (house, furniture, vehicle, machine) -> link it to stock you want it to pull resources from. so we don't have to run around inspecting every individual part.

the pollution mechanic also almost doing nothing to force players to spread out, one big city is most optimal result from current game design. the community has to go out of their way to made up many rules to actually get the game they want.

and the community need to stop wanting the game to become cookie clicker with chat.

We actually have always seen the exact opposite behaviour of players, trying to spread out as much as possible, when asked about the reasoning often to not be bothered by others - leading to typical issues with trade distances and cooperative requirements later on. It was one of many reasons for the settlement system requiring players to make settlements. But those are designed in tandem with resource generation, so a single settlement would likely be unable to actually finish the game from a location perspective already. I'm also not seeing that being done anywhere I have recently visited or on any official server - where are you playing to actually see that happening? Would be interesting to take a look at that server.

As for maintenance, a maintenance station is an option to be considered - something similar is planned for electricity / water distribution. There was a inherent goal of making this a profession option, though, so we'd need to see how we can keep that intention.

20 days ago - /u/SLG-Dennis - Direct link

Originally posted by Deeevud

I'm pretty sure it was U10. Currently, if you remove any plant from a plot (as in a claimable plot, all plants use those to determine nutrients/overcrowding), those plants will never grow back. It doesn't matter what sort of plant it is, and unaware players will often gather raw crops completely from a location and they never return. Trees don't use this system though, and there are exceptions such as the types of moss.

Previously, plants would grow back even if you completely wiped out all plants from a biome, and I assume this change was made so that players would soon have to rely upon farmers instead of charring crops in their hundreds during the early tiers.

Being able to control what grow where naturally though has it's advantages, like this: https://imgur.com/a/eStA6Wu

The prior mechanism simply led to players not actually farming, but just going by with low level food collected by themselves. The taken solution was an overshoot and will be adjusted with the changes coming for animals actually eating plants (so they are gone) and the pollution rework based around that. We also intend to squash the calorie numbers, e.g. making you need to eat much less often, as items provide more calorie density.

20 days ago - /u/SLG-Dennis - Direct link

Originally posted by FaasToothrot

I don't really mind the interconnectivity between professions to be honest. I like cooperating, sailing/driving around the globe for things I need and thus using the market as it is.

But I feel like main issue for casual players is the extreme fast pace of the game and all the pressures that come with that pace. The amount of people playing 8 hours per day on average on servers are the core group the devs seem to be looking at the most. And I think thats OK, as long as there are good long term alternatives (with exhaustion, I like that feature) with more differentiated and longer endgame goals.

If a server has more differentiated and longer goals, people can also wait a bit longer and/or play more casual, because it doesn't have to finished all within 30 days.

And yes, I know a server admin can change the meteor to any other amount of days, but the game doesn't seem to balanced at all for that at when it comes to profession progression and the singular focus on only a few professions at the end who can blow up the meteor.

TLDR: I hope the devs implement a lot more endgame goals for Eco which scale with collab settings.

That is also what we think, Eco is very often played at a pace much too fast - which it was never intended for. We hope the module rework will already help with slowing the tech progression race for efficiency down until we can implement a more effective solution like global research eras.

20 days ago - /u/SLG-Dennis - Direct link

Originally posted by cbparsons

I really wish they'd not just focus on the big servers. A lot of the changes are great if there are a ton of players. But once seasons die down, the workload grows to lategame and picking up abandoned jobs is harder. For sure frustrating

We are looking into mechanics that would allow us to do things like "dynamic professions" where based on the collab level of the server professions get merged or look different instead of basing it on star counts. Unfortunately with the vast options for customization and the intent of Eco to be a collaborative game best played on bigger public servers that isn't as easily done as said.