over 4 years ago - EVE Online - Direct link

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0s [Laughter]
8s Miette CCP hey Lamar Hjalmar gonna have
11s a conversation
13s we've prepared 12 topics that we want to
16s go through and we're not entirely sure
18s how long this conversation will be but
21s we have comfortable - yes and they've
23s good crowds and yeah three hours set
27s aside yeah so in my code - that might go
29s up to 300 Sydney but first question
33s he'll much or first topic that is a
36s serious matter
37s yes I think we've said often this was
41s the first thing that was written in the
43s in the script or online before Eamonn
46s line was made there was a massive script
49s detailing out all the game written out
51s is there it is as thick as a phone book
54s and even the table of contents of
57s covering Emeline as it was imagined
60s takes I think up to 10 pages just to
63s have in that script and this was the
65s first sentence that is a serious matter
67s once that was written down everyone went
69s out and got beer as you do as you do but
74s that is very much that has set the tone
77s for it online yeah and I think it's one
80s of the unique value proposition it's
81s maybe not completely unique anymore many
84s games have taken inspiration from it and
86s even taken it further but this is kind
89s of the hairpin that everything about Eve
92s stands on do you feel that this this
97s idea of death being a serious matter do
101s you think that is kind of the the the
103s grounding for the reality of New Eden
107s so I think in as we have kind of refined
113s the formula done experiments and also
118s just understanding of psychology and
122s humans has just evolved in the last 20
124s years since this was written down is
126s that there's actually has a lot to do
129s with how humans learn in a learning
133s and you could say death and put it would
135s also say failure yeah
137s like failing it's the most robust way to
140s learn yeah and in in the context of Eve
145s losing your sleep and getting potted is
147s a form of failure
148s mm-hmm so I think that aspect of the
151s game you you you go out in the world if
154s with the hypothesis and you get
158s destroyed and put it and that is the
162s moment where you either bounce back you
165s learn something you doped or adapt I
170s always say adopt and you adapt and I
175s think this loop goes a lot into this by
178s human line is interesting and why it
181s stays interesting for such a long time
182s is that there are so many ways to fail
184s yeah and there are so many ways to fail
186s at different scales and this constitutes
189s a learning loop and when people are
191s learning they stay interested yeah so if
194s death in Amman line stops being a
197s serious matter that is use of the point
200s in time where the game has become too
204s safe for somebody to learn anything more
207s yeah because this really sort of
211s orchestrates this this this loop of how
214s human beings learn they learn by trying
217s and failing evolving or thesis research
220s thing and going on again and again and
222s usually while you tapped out in a game
224s is that it's a linear game and it's just
226s over mm-hm or it's a game where it's
229s like you have nothing more to learn from
230s this game mmm-hmm
232s but I mean death I mean that has been a
238s taboo topic you know for centuries and
241s it's been a it's been you know we've
244s seen it in pop culture go everywhere
245s from being like something country and
247s talked about to to you know the
249s wonderful 80s and 90s where you know
251s jean-claude van damme film if it didn't
253s have like five thousand deaths in it it
255s was a shitty film to like you know some
261s interesting interesting paths in gaming
263s and and you know
266s she see deaths and thats that didn't
267s relate to you but how do we how do we
269s make deaths relatable in a game how do
272s we make death relatable in something
275s like even like well I I think the
278s beginning it was a pretty serious matter
284s I remember when I first died in EVE
286s Online it was it was a story I I talked
290s about at the 10-year anniversary of Eve
292s where I had borrowed spaceship of a
296s friend of mine inside him online
297s and lost it to a gate camp while on the
299s toilet and when I saw the port on the
304s screen for the first time a support mhm
307s and it was kind of interesting actually
309s with that when I saw the pot for the
311s first time in the game as my pot mm-hmm
313s because I used to use the pot when I was
315s making the three tangent yeah it was a
317s kind of a test object out Austin stared
319s at it
319s so the the imagery of a pot was not
322s unknown to me but what it represented
324s was epic failure
326s yeah of mine of playing my quote Nicole
330s game getting ported while at the toilet
333s because I didn't check the security
334s stages path by the way that feature with
337s the dots were added after that feature
342s request
343s ASAP and and and that was a pretty
348s serious matter and I remember going
350s through this kind of I I was standing
353s there in front of the huge screen we
357s have back then looking at the pot
358s thinking oh my god I got I got my staple
364s my Franco destroyed and then I had the
367s thought of like wait a minute
369s I am the CTO of this company I can't
372s just go to ESP and make another space
374s yet and then I became super disappointed
377s in myself for having the thought know
380s that but does that feel so wrong hmm and
383s I think in that moment it very much so
387s let it fight for me that it is a real
389s world death is a serious matter
391s yeah it's a real economy yeah so at the
395s back of that I ended up actually mining
397s for three weeks yeah during my paternity
400s to pay back the to my friend me I
402s also started to understand like
405s relationship obligations you know those
406s things in Eva are extremely rare yeah so
411s yeah I think this knows and I think any
416s players have and we've now started to
418s codify this as the magic moment like
421s when you die any one line for the first
423s time yeah that we call the magic moment
425s which is either when you where you start
429s to learn and you move on or it's the
431s moment where you where you lose out yeah
433s and what we have seen is that and in in
439s my particular case when I died it was
441s interesting because I blamed myself I
443s knew what I should have done and we
446s usually see that with if players in
448s their in their follow-on life if when
452s they die they understate stunts what
455s they did wrong and they can learn from
456s it yeah then they end up being
458s productive citizens of your online if
460s they die but there's no comprehension of
463s why they died they have no agency in it
466s there's no sense of control or
468s understanding then there's no mastery to
470s have and then people often just leave
472s yeah and it's it's really interesting
474s because we've also found that it's yeah
477s having that understanding having a
479s context when you die but it's also about
481s who you died with and who you die
484s against if you die with if you die in a
486s fleet if you flee it up and you die with
488s you know all the people to other people
490s people are way more willing to stick
493s around and you know they're they will
495s kind of I guess blamed ourselves for the
498s mistakes versus if people try to MPC so
501s if people die for get comfortable even
505s against another player and yeah it's
508s it's interesting to kind of see how
510s importantly the human interaction of the
513s human element it lays in this yeah it's
516s actually interesting in that in the
518s context because the game often thoughts
522s a very poor job of putting Direction in
525s the context so you understand what just
526s happened initially the death experience
530s of human line was extremely tiring
532s yeah it was like
533s you were there intership and like look
535s your happiness PlayStation now we at
537s least have at that scene at the moment
539s is wonderful explosions
541s yeah the moment there's context utilized
543s a little bit in in the in the early days
545s it was more just like a session change
547s yeah you're you're in a you're in your
549s part and our inner station just a black
552s loading screen but the game still needs
555s to do way better job of understand
557s relating to you what what happened so it
559s yeah learn from it but in the meantime
561s the new player fleets people are putting
565s it in context for people yeah you can
567s explain to the person because the game
569s is not good at it yeah why this was why
572s this happens
572s yeah and then people can learn yeah so
575s it's that social aspects which makes
577s that magic moment a productive on or or
581s an unproductive oh yeah well the game
583s needs to be better but in the meantime
585s new player organizations have done
587s miracles for the game in putting this in
590s context for people as they're dying yeah
592s and we actually learn a lot from nuclear
594s corporations on these things and a lot
596s of these actually a lot of this research
598s about the importance of death and when
601s you die and how it I was actually
603s triggered from conversations with
605s players and conversation with you know
608s these noob noob rooms or corporations
611s and and yeah we were actually quite
615s surprised kind of it was kind of silly
617s that we haven't kind of thought about
619s this more I mean we had thought about it
621s because we hadn't put like serious
622s serious research into it know if there's
625s anything I've learned about EVE Online
627s all great ideas seem like stupidly
630s obvious yeah yeah the journey of getting
635s to them is often rather long and
638s embarrassing yes definitely I mean yeah
641s it's amazing how long how many long
644s meetings can be about almost nothing
646s yeah
648s so the images that are kind of rolling
653s behind us extremely slowly we decided to
657s to gather some of our favorite fan art
661s and and I made a call out to my fellow
663s our final of CCP is to send me their
666s favorite fan
667s so every image you're gonna see in this
669s presentation is is from the community
673s sadly I did not manage to kind of
675s capture everyone's name and put on the
677s bottom but you will just have to shout
680s on Twitter and Twitter if if you're
683s immature Houston thank you all so we're
688s going to take questions on each topic
690s both from the auditorium and also from
694s twits and we have people reading through
697s through twits trying to read through
699s tits chat and they will bring questions
702s as they come so maybe with that should
705s we take a question from from you guys or
710s from twits yeah on the topic of death
713s being serious on the on the topic off of
716s death being serious matter so the
728s question to repeat are we willing to
731s take back SB lossing when you die yeah
734s so I think there needs to be an
740s escalation of the importance of death as
743s people progress yeah whether that is
745s using the SP laws mechanic I mean it
749s obviously took that out I'm not sure
750s just putting that back in is the right
752s path no but there is something about the
755s risk/reward dynamics move you now have a
758s very high skill point character yeah and
761s the stakes are higher for that character
763s hmm so I've always been a fan of finding
766s something which is maybe more inspired
768s by that which was a bit of a shortcut
770s frankly yeah we're like parts of your
773s character progression can be at risk
775s mm-hmm but yeah no really sort of well
783s we haven't really put it properly in
784s motion in common oh we couldn't mean the
786s sign for it but I think there's a point
789s in time where where where the escalation
792s of the importance of dying has to follow
795s your overall character progression yeah
798s absolutely yeah there there there are
800s people
800s which we're dying is I mean almost just
805s a method of travel yeah it's it's
808s nothing important anymore
809s yeah and the and the clone is kind of
813s yeah
814s there is a there is a very interesting
816s conversation and kind of the importance
817s of the clone itself and and you know at
821s the death of the clone yes you will lose
823s your implants but you know what else
825s what else do you lose in death like I
829s mean kind of the conscience stays on and
832s and stays living and and the body
834s disappears yeah but the implants are
837s actually a good example of voluntary
839s after risk behavior like oh my god how
843s many implants I've lost in a bit of that
844s space and I always think like I got this
848s like why am i bothering with going into
851s another clone to go there right and then
854s every time I die it's it's serious yeah
860s the the I get so easily confused and
863s what clone I'm in and I always forgot
865s Jack yeah but there's something in that
868s which is interesting yeah and and I
871s think there is something in this sort of
873s junk clone concept where you have kind
875s of different bodies your consciousness
878s can inhabit mm-hm and those different
881s bodies have different consequences when
884s it comes to death and I think there is
886s something we can explore there and even
889s just like if you look at the user
890s interface or the user experience of
892s interfacing with jump clones mm-hmm it
895s is rather uninspired yeah yeah I mean it
898s should be it should be really dramatic
901s you know leaving one body to go into the
904s next one yeah but but there is something
905s there about like okay now I'm mining I'm
908s in my mining body now I'm fighting my
911s fighting body they have different drifts
913s dynamics there is something about like
915s inspired by the skill points taking cues
918s from the implants yeah I think there's
920s probably also something about the after
922s beauty's extremely ancient design
927s collect the decide yeah yeah finding a
929s way to combine this into an elegant
931s system that then has this aspect of like
934s okay I am putting chips on the table
936s yeah and I've decided to do that because
938s now I'm super engaged and I'm doing
939s something I really care about and then
941s the stakes are higher and then the Taft
943s is more meaningful yeah but the key here
945s is that you need to make that this
947s exception it's your decision it's not
949s exactly us for you know every now and um
953s skill points because you type exactly
955s every time I'm losing in plots in a
956s piece of dead space I'm not blaming the
958s game no I know I am the one who's stupid
961s yeah I just don't learn anything from it
963s that's this learning yes when you die
977s you have a temporal loss of skills skill
982s points and you've learnt them you've
985s earned them and then you have a period
987s of time because of the shock that you
990s have because you die you actually have
993s like let's say 20% less efficiency at
996s your own skills so you basically start
1001s ken wasn't usable at that time just
1004s because you didn't have the skills right
1006s then and after time when your body just
1009s relapsed of that then you have your
1012s skill points back you could use your
1014s best weapon again so maybe that's
1016s something you can look into kind of like
1020s the Jim fatigue system so the I'm trying
1029s to summarize this for the stream so a
1032s member of the audience has referenced
1034s the game called neo cron which is
1036s interesting people bring you up ancient
1039s amiibos actually followed near Cronkite
1041s at the time an inning Kron there was a
1043s dynamic that you had a temporal loss
1046s every time you tight and then once
1049s you're recovering from death you had
1050s like a negative 20% sort of debuff on
1052s your progression because you were just
1055s tight you're kind of quote/unquote
1057s hungover from death and I think I mean
1061s that is a it's like an interesting path
1065s then sort of evolved from I actually
1069s would think like doing the reverse would
1071s be interesting that taking away a set of
1075s example but then giving you an
1077s acceleration you can gain the path
1081s quicker I play a lot of idle games just
1087s something that fits my lifestyle quite
1090s well to play idle games and there are
1092s aspects of EVE Online certainly which
1093s are either inspired by idle games or are
1096s the inspiration of idle games mhm
1098s many idle game makers called EVE Online
1100s the first title game
1102s like many block doing people talk called
1104s even line the first blocking game
1106s without using a blockchain but and
1108s there's something in there the death
1110s myth mechanic of idle games will you
1112s sacrifice your progress for increased
1116s speed and regaining the process that
1118s loop I think is interesting so if we if
1121s we were to take the Neo Crone example
1123s put flip it of like okay I've died death
1127s gives me like growth and learning well
1131s ok then you progress faster for a while
1133s after you died and of course that
1134s becomes Siri
1135s exploitable if you put put it like that
1137s to be players that would be that is now
1141s the what you doing on a minute-by-minute
1143s basis but I think there is something in
1147s this element of like playing around with
1149s like risking consequences making it more
1152s meaningful having the painful pain gets
1155s growth and learning and then having some
1158s aspect of it I I forgot I have all been
1161s very curious about having permadeath in
1165s EVE where you can play a version of a
1169s clone with this just perma death and if
1172s you're playing a permit that cover
1174s character you have some different
1177s advantage and disadvantage and even just
1180s like a seasonal high score list of like
1182s survivability of permadeath characters
1184s is an interesting dynamic to add to the
1186s game yeah I mean it's definitely it's
1188s definitely a favorite bar topic the the
1191s whole idea of perimeters and if it's a
1194s you know if it should be a kind of a 20
1197s minute character or you know a life time
1199s character and things like that and but
1203s you run into some very yeah I mean that
1206s very interesting scenarios perma
1209s killable character yeah lost definitely
1211s has a very dramatic meaning and and yes
1215s but it but it is like with Eve I have so
1217s much flexibility because of the single
1220s shortness and like whatever the game is
1222s so vast to add it like an ass as an
1224s option because often when people are
1227s doing permadeath MMOs and this is like
1229s the favorite topic could let you say of
1230s any MMO maker it's like you get a MMO
1234s makers in to parse and talk about perma
1235s death but like I think that like as a as
1239s a knobs on basically as a hardcore mode
1241s yeah there or your clones have a set of
1244s like one of them could be yeah perma
1246s death and when you're really feeling it
1248s you you take the parameter thrown out
1251s for a spin and that has some like
1254s risk/reward dynamics which are
1256s interesting that would be a way to sweat
1258s bullets do we have anything from from
1266s current pilots Paulie McCoy says risk
1277s versus reward have you have increased
1280s risk when will rewards increase yes okay
1285s it's maybe not in the context of this
1287s topic but still like you can definitely
1289s ninja it into it and I think actually
1294s CCP rice covered this very well on the
1296s talking station yeah podcast on Sunday
1299s we were in a risk/reward dynamic
1304s asymmetry where there were too much
1308s rewards against the risk involved
1310s absolutely now with everything that's
1312s been going on over the summer we've
1313s definitely addressed kind of that issue
1317s to some extent you look at the risk
1319s faucets and our sinks they're in a much
1321s better place they're frankly probably
1323s now almost are at deficit so now we have
1326s space to increase the rewards again and
1329s that's a really good place to be in yeah
1331s because before we were kind of in the
1332s place we couldn't really had anything
1334s because the the money supply was so out
1336s of control
1337s yeah and I mean the end the money supply
1339s was the distribution of that that
1345s faucets was very on you know
1347s unhealthy in a way because you had yeah
1349s a lot of a lot of is coming into the
1351s game in small pockets and and yeah it's
1355s not really having the opportunity to add
1357s add more rewards to you know the earlier
1360s earlier game world yeah or even the
1362s later game yeah or even the later game
1364s yeah so I would say the answer now we
1367s are ah the first time in a long time in
1371s a situation where we actually could
1373s potentially increase rewards
1375s yeah we but we were not there before the
1377s actions of the summer yeah because the
1380s the money sink and faucet situation was
1383s out of control yeah but I mean it's
1384s gonna be a it's going to be a very
1387s careful this is where we were going to
1390s add where we're gonna add rewards and we
1393s are we are doing some work and kind of
1395s mapping out the whole game and figure
1397s out and you know
1398s I think batter tiles to to really be
1401s strategic about mmm where we balance
1404s rewards yeah and I think as we do it
1406s it's gonna be not this stable
1408s predictable situation we saw before no
1411s there was just too much sort of you find
1414s the honeypot and it goes on for a decade
1416s yeah and it's gonna be less like that
1420s absolutely so if you lose the safe you
1439s can still fly the ship
1446s yeah it's a question from the audience
1449s which basically involves if you die in a
1452s particular type of ship you could not
1454s fly that ship for a period of time it
1455s will be blocked kind of inspired by the
1457s neo crow there's penalty lasting penalty
1461s yeah and and again I mean there's like
1465s this map of ingredients you can you can
1468s use to to sort of affect the dynamics of
1472s risk reports in the context of that
1474s current topic this might be one to put
1477s in to that yeah but I I think there is a
1481s point in time where we will be to take
1483s some good work at this absolutely
1487s because in stock net for a very long
1490s time I mean it's a very favorite topic
1491s of mine um I'm very passionate about
1493s death and you're in Finland and it's
1496s good to talk about that so next topic
1501s invest in new players so we've been
1505s quite open about us basically doubling
1509s down and and toppling down on the early
1512s game and early retention and kind of the
1515s the the Pantera I've been waving a lot
1520s is that we owe it to you guys to get
1523s more people into the game because more
1525s players equals more content which equals
1527s a way better game for everyone
1530s and on a more personal note I I mean I
1533s just eve online is so amazing it's so
1536s epic and it's such a shame that not you
1539s know more people get to enjoy it and
1542s this year we actually it's been a very
1546s interesting write this year in kind of
1548s doing this shift because we have we have
1550s a lot of expertise in the mid to later
1554s game but we don't have that much
1557s expertise in the early game and we have
1558s actually you know we've done a lot of
1561s you know interesting experiments in in
1565s our own what we've called until now new
1567s player experience and but I think the
1570s big shift now is that one of the things
1572s that we're doing is rather than looking
1574s at the new player experience new player
1577s experience as a single team's problem it
1580s is the whole dev teams problem you know
1582s if you can't pay in a certain country
1585s you know finance and legal need to you
1588s know get their stuff together and if you
1591s if you you know can't progress to the
1594s next step of your tutorial like you know
1597s design and UX need to you know double
1600s down and figure out what's wrong and
1603s it's been it's been a really interesting
1606s journey last couple of months kind of
1608s going through the new pair experience
1611s again again again again and we've kind
1614s of kicked off an effort at CCP where we
1618s are kind of we have a couple of
1620s longer-term projects but we also have a
1623s lot of small projects and we've kind of
1624s categorized them into the first 30 hours
1628s which I codename you know fix the
1631s bleeding and the second effort this is
1635s kind of diving into the first 30 days
1637s and we call that kind of fix the stupid
1641s and and it's incredible how much stupid
1646s stuff is that how my stupid service them
1648s I'm trying to find like more polite ways
1650s of saying it but hey just hearing
1652s somebody's house we can speak plainly
1654s yeah I guess yeah there's nobody
1655s listening these guys yes yeah
1660s yeah I mean it's it's it's sometimes
1663s like you know late at night when I'm
1666s going through through the the first
1668s steps first you know three hours of its
1671s I'm amazed that people actually survive
1674s mmm in many cases yeah they're there
1678s there's a few things I think it's good
1680s to sort of repeat I think both of us
1683s have been talking about this quite a bit
1685s on the bull tour mm-hmm you did a talk
1687s in Toronto
1688s which was really good and I leave town
1690s hunter where we have been even showing
1693s just the t-tests numbers yeah
1695s so because of then I got this impression
1697s even within CCP or with the players that
1700s Iman line has a player base yeah and
1704s it's just not really true like player
1706s base or female line is like a river it's
1708s like a river that flows down and there's
1710s like silt that big builds up at the
1713s bottom and you can look at the silt at
1717s the bottom which is the current player
1718s base kind of like it's like the lines in
1721s a tree like every year we get a crop of
1724s new players and that becomes that sort
1727s of annualized set of Eve players which
1730s then retain for definite amount from a
1733s year to 16 years but of all the past
1736s cohorts people are always leaving out of
1739s those cohorts yeah I mean it's just
1742s inevitable but people don't live forever
1744s for example there is always a backstop
1747s to how many people of the 2003 cohort
1750s are gonna continue to play online every
1753s single day somebody from Cobert is
1755s leaving yeah either just because they're
1757s tucked out there had a baby or they're
1760s just frankly not alive anymore mm-hmm
1762s so the each cohort that comes into the
1765s game it's very important to retain it
1767s and and what people might think when you
1772s have a 16 year old MMO is that we have
1775s problem on caring in new players and and
1778s that comfortably is exactly not our
1780s problem yeah the number of you people
1782s coming in to email and every year has
1784s been increasing through time not
1787s decreasing yeah and as we hire people
1790s from the MMO industry and everyone sort
1793s of company
1793s notes this is not the trend you see in
1796s other MMO oh no no people are very
1798s surprised
1799s oh yeah of how many people we actually
1800s get through yeah and to sort of just put
1804s concrete numbers every single week about
1807s twelve to twenty thousand people log
1810s into EVE Online for the first time so
1813s it's a lot of people
1816s the problem is seventies later ninety
1819s percent of them are no longer there and
1822s the time percent that remain well they
1826s have a half-life down from thirty sixty
1829s to ninety by ten ninety you are sort of
1832s a citizen of EVE Online yeah but not
1836s really until like six months into it
1838s then you are like a classified bonafide
1841s deep player yeah that will then continue
1843s on yeah there's question how few the
1857s minutes are they play yeah and and there
1861s are a lot of booby traps in the funnel
1864s of new players
1865s I think booby traps is a good word yeah
1867s what we have discovered and then pedicle
1871s is saying stop the bleeding and fix the
1873s stupid some of these things are rather
1875s stupid and embarrassing yeah it's a and
1879s it is because we are so preoccupied with
1881s managing EVE Online as a as a huge
1885s virtual world inhabited by like
1887s violently passing a 20-month in player
1890s base but it's so easy for us to get
1893s distracted into that weird opportunity
1896s for EVE Online actually lies in
1899s embracing more of the people coming in
1901s we had 600,000 people log in for the
1904s first time last year
1905s no 600,000 people is a lot of people
1908s it's like top of the population of
1909s Iceland locked into a plan for the first
1912s time and if we improve from losing
1914s ninety percent in seven days don't you
1916s like 85 percent in seven days even daft
1919s little change it's actually 85 is not
1922s enough but if you carry to 75 percent
1924s Eve
1926s if future growth trajectory massively
1930s changes whereas retaining people longer
1934s and longer and longer is an excellent
1937s way to sustain if but it's not a good
1940s plant grow if so as people are sort of
1943s debating all these things why are we
1945s doing this we're doing this because this
1947s is the best way to set him on line for
1950s future growth for the third decade yeah
1952s and what we were seeking up things for
1955s the for the current playerbase
1958s but we're doing that for different
1960s reasons I think the the game completely
1962s has gotten quite stagnant and certainly
1965s in my Walter experience has been talking
1967s to a lot of people with searches that
1969s port on doing the same thing over and
1970s over again
1971s but the plan for growth of a plan relies
1974s on doing a parity up on this front yeah
1976s and actually kind of to give you guys
1978s some some concrete examples of for
1981s instance fix the pleating because he
1982s said booby trap I mean end of July
1988s record enough fix where when you create
1990s a new character in the past the current
1994s model itself was quite kind of late and
1997s the dominant on the month process so
2000s people on poor connections had to wait
2001s up to three four minutes just to load
2004s the 3d model but by just moving the 3d
2009s model into the initial download like we
2013s were seeing like 30% jump in in day
2017s three retention which is yeah it's like
2021s it hopped up like massively yeah I I
2025s know you have the same reaction as many
2027s people that cease to be hot because of
2029s them there is the attitude that the new
2033s player experience of Eve is like a test
2035s of whether you're worthy like when I
2038s play them online for the first time I
2040s didn't need own tutorial yeah
2042s there was no tutorial when I played but
2045s it's it's like two things like number
2049s one the game has changed a lot and it's
2051s way more complex and deep apps versus
2054s when you son absolutely when I started
2056s playing we have 30 spaceships no we have
2057s 300 spaces
2059s like the the choice paralyzes of having
2062s panax the number of spaces to choose
2064s from or the confusion of just
2066s understanding I as a new player what
2068s should I be doing with all these things
2070s that is one then the UI complexity
2074s sprawl Ness has just like we've added
2076s and added and added to the UI we take a
2078s screenshot of even 2003 and it figures
2080s greens out of even 2013 and now you just
2084s see like the axial nest has improved
2086s considerably
2087s yeah so that's one aspect and then
2090s there's another aspect of like people
2092s today and I even feel it myself
2094s I had just now today have zero tolerance
2097s for patty wax yeah it's just like I
2100s don't bother if I play a game and the UX
2103s it's just like retarded I just like oh I
2107s just don't want to do this anymore
2110s I don't want to read that manual about
2113s how to do things in the game just one or
2115s two things in the game and I mean we
2117s yeah this is something we I I I remind
2120s our developers a lot you know the game
2123s came out in 2003 yeah 2003 was a way
2126s different mm-hmm era okay it was in a
2130s box with a cd-rom yeah it had an actual
2133s booklet a manual I mean the min spec
2136s machine is like you can't even use it as
2139s a paperweight because it's too big and I
2143s mean there were still a lot of people on
2145s pile optimal times and you know four
2148s years after a one line came out we had
2150s the first iPhone so yeah it's it's it's
2153s a completely different world and people
2154s I mean people evolved and we have to
2159s evolve yeah and we have to and we have
2161s to do it for Eve and and I know when we
2164s talk about this and if the players come
2165s to me it's like are you coming down the
2167s game are we making more casual etc and
2169s they're like it's entirely not about
2171s that the the there there is this kind of
2175s element of like like complexity is not a
2178s bad thing mmm but context less
2181s complexity just because we haven't
2183s finished our job on putting the the
2185s context out there so people understand
2187s what they're doing so they can learn
2188s from it that is bad
2190s yeah and an e vis full of
2192s this kind of bar text complexity
2194s examples like there's an element like
2197s which is called tracking complexity
2199s comprehension complexity then you have a
2201s lot of these can adapt the level
2203s complexity which actually if does not
2205s house have a as much as it should have
2208s there are aspects of it which are super
2209s deep like the fitting game the market
2212s like there there are nerve elements
2214s which are super deep but a lot of the
2216s game is very shallow in parts yeah where
2220s it's just full of this kind of
2221s comprehension complexity mm-hmm which is
2224s turning away very efficiently half a
2227s million people last year yeah yeah we we
2240s have continually been investing in ways
2244s to classify what are genuine new players
2248s yeah not only just the issue of of
2251s here's an old but there's a lot of noise
2253s in the system yeah a lot of buffing
2257s behavior generates a lot of counts we
2259s have to filter those out will filter out
2261s obviously out accounts we have to figure
2263s out alt accounts that people are trying
2265s to hide from us yeah so so we do spend a
2269s lot of time in in figuring out what is a
2271s genuine new player and I think we can
2274s say with fair amount of certainty
2275s there's these numbers we're quoting here
2277s our actual new human beings legit
2280s legitimately trying to play well we've
2300s been role-playing these user tests yeah
2304s so we actually as a part of as a part of
2309s this effort we are starting to way more
2312s user testing in-house and to get that
2314s kind of up and running we've been fat
2317s seeing both like all the players that
2321s haven't played Eve for a wife to get
2323s them you know to run through
2325s and also just brand-new if players in
2328s house and we've been trying to like yeah
2331s we've been trying to do user testing but
2333s it's very difficult not to jump in and
2335s try to help people out when they are
2338s trying to walk to something and or
2340s double or triple or you know clicking
2344s it's it's step of the activate step of
2347s the tutorial seven times and restarting
2349s it and yeah it's so it's actually there
2352s is a lot of a lot of fix the stop the
2356s bleeding projects that have come out of
2357s those role-playing session quote-unquote
2361s that I yeah some of them have actually
2363s been shipped and all this are about to
2365s be shipped in September so yeah yeah
2368s it's we have actually over the summer
2370s while everything else has been going on
2371s and have the company on summer vacation
2373s we made great progress both on like
2376s disarming some of the booby traps yeah
2378s and fixing some of the UX mhm
2381s some of it requires a bigger investment
2383s and some of it actually involves
2386s elements which are something about the
2389s fundamental of the game because there is
2392s this aspect of Eve like even if we fix
2395s the UX fix the entry I don't know and
2398s all that there is something about the
2400s promise of what EVE Online is in your
2402s hat when you come into it yeah and the
2405s first thing you do in the game and
2406s there's a jarring disconnect yes and how
2408s you interact with your spaceship yeah
2411s which at some point we need to find a
2413s better way to UM port you into that it's
2415s just very hard to feel like you're
2418s flying a spaceship mhm the way it is and
2421s it's not just a point of click at the
2423s face
2423s there's just how the response rate of
2425s the ship to your action is yeah the
2428s weight of this year yeah how it backs
2431s how how it like how the comm and I their
2434s act with it it doesn't feel it's also
2436s that because the trails the trails are
2440s not like it's not true trails yeah and
2443s so you don't get a sense of you know
2445s exactly how you've moved you're always
2448s just kind of you know going straight or
2449s in a curve that's it always seems to be
2452s the same and and we kind of loose we
2454s lose depth because of it and you kind of
2457s we lose a kind of a physical connection
2460s to the game the house of it and I think
2463s it's it's yeah I think one of the like
2469s one of the first things I wrote on a
2470s whiteboard when we kind of when we
2474s started this this journey that were on
2477s now is we have to fulfill the promise of
2480s sci-fi as soon as possible like people
2483s people come into the game after seeing a
2486s trailer or you know have their favorite
2488s sci-fi they love and we you know we are
2493s the we are the we should be the ultimate
2495s sci-fi we are the ultimate sci-fi you
2497s know you can you know it's a it's it's a
2499s space if game you can interact with it's
2502s it's a world you can you're active
2504s participant and you're writing the story
2506s of the world
2506s so we fulfill this kind of promise of
2510s sci-fi later on but how can we like you
2513s know how can we give you that sci-fi
2516s sense mmm you know yeah minute one it's
2519s actually I'm like what we have been
2521s doing with ether worse yeah like while
2524s we couldn't get it exactly as the we we
2529s actually we made that simpler version of
2531s ether worse before we made the
2532s multiplayer version and there we had
2534s like probably the best space of flight
2537s dynamics models I've seen and comparing
2540s like all the space came out there even
2541s Valkyrie and all that and finding a way
2544s to get that way yeah to fly a spaceship
2547s into Eve I think would deliver a lot
2549s quicker on the promise yeah we don't
2552s need to explain it just feels awesome
2553s from the beginning yeah I mean and
2555s that's also with I mean that's one of
2558s the great things with a piece of that
2559s space we got to really test out new
2563s hypotheses and new things we hadn't done
2566s before and and you know this kind of
2569s acting more foreground and mid-ground
2571s you know not only pure background yep
2574s it's it's super yeah it just gives the
2577s game more depth but then it's you know
2579s the second terrace then how do you
2580s interact with it how do you meters and
2582s how do we yeah
2590s we're gonna do a 10-minute break okay
2593s okay we're down to topics
2594s ten we go okay we're making a 10-minute
2597s break okay okay all right welcome back
2604s guys and most requested thing on Twitter
2608s says aronia and we found the trick to
2612s keep follow me around for maybe as long
2615s as the treats last the community team
2617s keeps growing yeah keeps growing the
2620s mascot so we were talking about
2624s investing in new players and one of the
2627s interesting things we found in our
2630s research is even line the friendship
2634s machines friends and friendship machine
2638s and kind of investigating that further
2641s we kind of found this actually even kind
2644s of online the the skill builder and you
2647s know how it can teach people can support
2649s real world skills yeah it's been an
2652s interesting journey how this came to be
2654s so I think most people that track him
2658s online was from detail by now know who
2660s sees because there's yeah and sees be
2663s ghost has a pretty interesting
2665s background he was working for the
2668s special prosecutor office of Iceland
2671s sorting out the economic collapse before
2674s he turned CCP very interesting
2677s background day's work yeah
2680s it's what you need when you're operating
2682s over to old yeah and and there he he
2687s developed very good what should I call
2690s them interview skills
2691s mmm-hmm and and there was a moment in
2694s time last year where we were kind of
2697s strategizing about these as we do and
2700s lately and I think you and I were
2703s talking about like okay why do people
2704s play mm-hmm
2706s for decades and I I think we've always
2709s instinctively understood and it's even
2712s in the inception documents of the game
2714s is that you join for the game but you
2717s stay for your friends obviously nobody
2720s plays actually does play a game
2723s for 16 years well there might be cases
2727s of it but it's you can't really build
2729s our business or a strategy out of that
2731s but but this this concept of okay how
2737s does this really happen how do the the
2740s making a friend staying for your friend
2741s staying for the community like can we
2744s get some more depth into this so we can
2747s get it more actionable and we can
2748s develop it more into our strategy so we
2751s our city because to go and why don't we
2754s just talk to the people that are the
2758s most if players there are and now that
2762s we have such a data infrastructure which
2764s has been growing with CCP now especially
2766s in the posture of five years when we
2769s started a big post on that front we can
2771s kind of identify which are the most sort
2773s of prototypical if players we want to
2775s model and figure out how their story
2778s came to be hmm and of course Iman Lyon
2781s has this reputation of being a PvP game
2783s it's a hard complicated space game and
2786s all that so you you would have a certain
2788s impression of a tiny player is based on
2791s that but when we really looked at the
2793s data who are the most productive
2794s citizens of EVE Online and talk to them
2798s most people self-identified as helpers
2801s yeah and the most prominent archetype of
2806s an EVE player is somebody who wants to
2808s help others yeah and of course we have
2810s amazing examples in the in the community
2813s absolutely
2814s I think great girl stands out and then
2818s great girl has I think through her
2820s action great girl has on 40 10,000
2825s people yeah into EVE Online way better
2829s than our player experience and see
2833s single-handedly with all the people
2835s working with her has just materially
2838s affected the course of the game through
2840s this element of not helping others and
2843s then okay why is that the archetype of
2848s any player and then it goes into this
2851s because even line is so tough so
2853s confusing nobody knows what they do so
2856s punishing improve
2857s that people just do need a lot of help
2859s yeah playing the game so in a way it's
2862s kind of fertile ground for for for this
2865s to come together yeah and and to create
2867s I mean it it it calls for it calls for
2871s playing together
2872s it calls for coupling yeah it's it's
2875s yeah I mean yeah you can like you know
2878s have your your super sent and do all the
2881s stuff but you know there's only half the
2883s fun if it's if it's not with other
2885s people yeah and and then building on
2887s that we found that a lot of people in
2892s this group they very completely total
2896s stories many stories of how Emmaline had
2899s increased their friends network and not
2903s just like giving you more acquaintances
2905s but giving you actual real friends yeah
2909s and and it's actually a pretty magical
2911s thing to have a friend it I don't think
2915s people appreciate especially later on in
2918s life how rare it does happen that you
2922s can gain a new friend yeah you make a
2923s new friend
2924s yeah and especially now with like all
2926s these studies coming out on on
2928s loneliness being I mean just become a
2931s health concern global health concern
2934s mm-hm and and yeah basically kind of you
2939s know if allowing you to build these
2942s meaningful relationship and I mean I'm
2944s not talking about I'm not talking about
2947s with the game but you know with you know
2949s people with on one another yeah it's
2952s it's actually really magical and yeah I
2955s mean it's it's I remember when I saw
2958s this presentation from coast for the
2959s first time I was like there was like a
2962s whole new world that opened up to me
2964s like I like I hadn't like I had never
2969s thought about the game in this way and
2970s like I probably you know probably kind
2972s of felt it was almost tacky thinking
2974s about the game in this way you know it's
2976s a yeah or you know sci-fi yeah yeah and
2980s and I think I mean I mean over the years
2983s this has come off but yeah the level of
2985s depth precision accuracy we have now on
2988s it that even line is a
2991s making machine like friendship is the
2994s best shape it's just through the data
2997s shows both empirically and anecdotally I
3001s think a lot of people are CCP have found
3004s re-mute sense of purpose on developing
3007s these aspects of the game absolutely and
3009s and frankly some of the accents we've
3011s been taking while there maybe you can't
3014s throw an obvious line between these two
3015s things of increasing challenges for
3018s veteran players and decreasing
3020s challenges for for for people coming
3022s into it but it's actually this in
3024s asymmetry yeah which actually creates
3027s this context where the where the
3028s friendship can occur yeah and and it's
3031s now we got this result now almost 18
3035s months ago so they've been a sort of
3036s systemizing okay how can we improve this
3039s aspect of the game
3040s and we found a formula there there's a
3043s formula on how you make a friend yeah
3045s frequency times proximity times
3051s frequency times proximity times what is
3054s the last one
3055s intensity intensity yes it's yeah it's
3058s do it frequency and proximity and
3062s obviously why even line is so good at
3064s this is that intensity yeah it is on and
3068s it's actually another element that is
3071s good at making new friendships is
3073s actually going to board together yeah
3074s and a lot of the people we talk to our
3077s veterans of various militaries in the
3080s world that have gone to war and they
3082s describe him online in this way that
3084s there is nothing like going to compact
3088s with people that built like true
3089s friendships accepting online mm-hmm
3093s and like it's extremely in a way strange
3096s and humbling to hear people say that I
3097s know what they're talking about but now
3100s that we have this new lands to develop
3103s the game under mm okay how can we make
3106s proximity of thing where people meet
3108s each other more often how can we like
3111s manage the intensity how can it make
3113s longer iterations how can we how can we
3116s allow the game to to help
3119s yeah but not them so I'm like weird
3120s creepy
3122s way of like trying to sort of
3125s artificially make friendship yeah but
3127s kind of strength in these conditions and
3129s and also this formula you know because
3132s you know because it's a it's a world
3135s tour world we you know we it's we can we
3138s can much easier kind of turn the dials
3141s of intensity or proximity and it's it's
3144s actually a really good formula to have
3146s in mind when you're developing for for
3148s instance new players like you know when
3151s you're new you need more higher
3152s frequency you need you know more spikes
3155s of intensity and you need a little
3158s shorter duration because you don't want
3161s to you know burn people out too quickly
3163s yeah and it's been it's a it's a really
3169s interesting tool to to mirror kind of
3172s what we do against and it's amazing how
3175s little often times you have to you know
3177s tweak things to really you know create
3181s magical results yeah yeah this has been
3185s a pretty profound moment for everyone
3187s that sees to be going through this
3188s journey and and like I said it's not
3190s because this is unknown to people there
3192s are so many stories there are so many
3194s anecdotes people are personally
3196s experienced there's also but like now
3198s that we have this level of precision and
3199s depth it becomes something that you can
3202s develop into a yeah into a strategy and
3204s then thinking of what you're working on
3208s is actually improving and increasing
3210s relationships in the world when then the
3213s World Health Organization has shown how
3215s many friends you have real friends
3217s correlates with length of life health
3220s happiness and purpose and if we're
3223s making a game all of us here together
3225s these things we're making people live
3228s longer be happier and and health in
3231s their lives actually we have a computer
3234s game that's making people more healthy
3235s think that was not something we were
3238s thinking about the that Matt's a year
3241s ago it's a it's a it's a crazy twist
3246s yeah yes no one saw that coming
3248s no it's science so yeah and then we also
3254s had the skills
3255s thing let's comment on the little bit
3257s because it was this in this story also
3260s what came out is that it's almost a
3263s catch phrase even land gives you friends
3266s and skills yep
3267s and I I I don't think anyone who plays
3270s him online has a problem understanding
3272s that you get new skills from playing the
3274s game but what is interesting and came
3277s through this story also while we were
3279s not studying it is that the skills you
3282s gain in him online are extremely
3284s marketable commodities in the real world
3287s and we now have a new set of data which
3291s we've both done through this 30 but also
3292s with a sort of crowdsource all of the
3297s internet read it included it's obviously
3301s a social media but the does this poor
3303s robot yeah all of the Habib subreddit
3308s and and out of that we have covered
3311s these stories of various anecdotal
3313s evidence of people learning skills from
3315s if they've been concretely employed in
3318s in their professional life yeah and I
3320s actually in the sauna yesterday heard an
3324s extremely humbling story of a famous
3328s each player was here who had been
3332s unemployed for six years but through Eve
3334s he had learned some lead skills in the
3339s field of eto production and he's been
3342s producing videos for the six years he
3345s was unemployed and he's put it on
3349s YouTube we have actually used them
3350s they're actually really good and now he
3353s has a job in inter protection and so now
3358s he is working and and making a living
3359s with the skills he concretely learnt in
3361s him online
3362s there's no more concrete story then then
3367s this person yes
3373s duty we belong and I hurt another
3376s interesting story apparently there's a
3378s famous Eve player through running
3381s organizations in EVE Online gain the
3383s understanding and competence to her
3384s started on business he now runs a
3386s business in Finland every time he's
3388s thank you go for new
3389s it's our program to install in his real
3391s business he first tests it in his Eve
3393s corporation to see if it actually
3395s incentivizes the right then he rolls it
3398s out in his IVA company I was like
3404s company and never came to explain this
3409s new employee program is wonderful it
3412s works really well okay hop to the next
3418s topic it's an interesting topic long
3420s term tack investment yeah this actually
3424s is a topic dear to my heart I used to be
3426s a CTO of CTP and we obviously lay down a
3432s lot of tech foundations a two decades
3434s ago and it's frankly shocking how much
3438s it's helped uh yeah yeah but it's
3440s working homeworks it's creepy at the
3442s seams right now so you and I think we
3446s have been communicating already about
3448s some of this we're now doing a lot of
3450s sort of eeper more long term investment
3453s in the sort of foundations of eve mm-hmm
3456s the 64-bit client of Eve is a is an
3459s example of that the move to 36:12 yeah
3463s it's a it's an example that and it will
3465s only seamless start to what that can
3468s bring to it yeah and also things like
3471s ether wars are definitely uh an
3474s investment into the future I mean we're
3476s we're testing out you know it's this
3480s technology something that's viable for
3482s for the long term you know and you know
3485s it's no better way of testing it but but
3488s actually you know putting it in hands of
3490s if players to Breakers and break it fast
3492s yeah and we've been seeing really really
3495s really interesting results from it and
3497s and they actually learned a lot both
3499s from both from just kind of you know
3502s building we working with working with a
3504s new back-end yeah and but also there's
3507s kind of because it's all done in and
3509s really for just having to go through
3511s like all the control schemes all the
3513s kind of how we build our visuals it's
3515s been a very interesting kind of almost
3517s like a auditing on on yeah core
3519s fundamentals of
3521s yeah it's actually shocking how much it
3523s has progressed we only do two tests and
3526s and it's a tiny team that's working on
3529s this
3529s obviously most of CTP is busy with him
3532s online
3533s but already it's it's proven so much and
3536s and I would say like the the last
3539s experiment now on what Sunday something
3541s kind of lies it actually works getting
3545s quite close to you might actually see
3548s how this becomes a game on its own
3550s outside of of what we're learning from
3552s it oh yeah yeah yeah and yeah what comes
3556s of it yeah and and we actually we have a
3558s ton of data we're sorting through all of
3559s that we'll share all of it we obviously
3562s didn't beat our world record yet or the
3564s players world record and why that is uh
3567s I don't know it's a it's a good thing
3569s for the press to talk about it isn't the
3572s record isn't the thing per se it's all
3574s the learnings we come from just an
3576s anchor to to but hopefully at some point
3578s we'll get 10,000 people into it yeah and
3581s I think I mean it's you know if we've
3586s been going on for 16 years you know
3589s we're gonna go on for at least another
3590s 16 years if I mean you know as long as
3592s I'm here we're gonna mmm keep on rockin
3595s and it calls for like continuous
3597s development or attack and yeah
3599s and and it's also like it's it's this is
3604s true for all games but I think it's
3606s particularly true for Eve how much of
3608s the game is called it's dictated by the
3610s limitations of the TAC yeah if you go
3613s back to the screenshot you had I don't
3616s I'd love that thing is that there are
3620s elements in the face extension of the
3622s game which dictate where they're
3625s actually something like this can happen
3627s or not and it's not necessarily just
3631s cantillation and performance to get Eve
3635s to run we actually made some shortcuts
3638s mm-hmm and one of the shortcut is that
3641s the server doesn't understand how the
3644s ships are orienting the it's actually
3648s rotation is not understood by the server
3651s code and there's rotation of a space it
3654s beneath cannot
3655s affect the comfort system because
3657s otherwise you could cheat if it was just
3658s using the client their server doesn't
3660s see it and another condition which is
3663s kind of unfortunate is that doing
3665s line-of-sight occlusion by lasers or by
3669s projector also things like that is is is
3672s well it's possible but it's gonna be
3674s very performance intensive by the player
3677s pilot by the server and not having these
3679s two things actually it's the reason why
3682s formations in EVE Online are actually
3685s not the thing like usually when he was a
3688s fleet fight the basic ball up into a
3691s ball against another ball yeah and that
3694s is ultimately because from the service
3696s perspective if you look at the pure math
3698s and it's all differential equation so
3699s the physics works and all that is that
3702s the correct solution given the
3704s constraints is to have eight swore like
3707s that yeah but as soon as you introduce
3710s line-of-sight and occlusion being a
3713s thing immediately spaceships otherwise
3716s you're shooting your front to get over
3718s to the enemy yeah and immediately the
3721s context that the battle becomes
3722s relatable because immediately you go
3724s into Napoleon level organizations of
3727s like you have a certain type of ships in
3729s the front all those episodes in the back
3731s you need to protect your flag and just
3734s by having line-of-sight occlusion you
3736s immediately change the context of new
3739s fleet fight from being this relatively
3741s uncomplicated polls of ships against on
3744s other polyps here into something that
3746s has ties in shape and texture and the
3748s strategy to go through the roof of
3750s managing dart and then once you have
3753s orientation then you can start to make
3755s truly a symmetrical dip and of like that
3758s I don't know the a baton is trying to be
3760s it actually isn't
3761s we're okay this year parted shape and it
3764s has a turning point
3765s it's its backside or its flank its
3768s weaker yeah and and and with something
3771s like this
3772s ether war experiment where Cernan a
3774s plane aft good deep in the physical
3777s simulation
3777s search that any fleet fight could rise
3779s to the challenge of delivering something
3781s on this not only from performance but
3784s the reason why this has contacts in
3785s shape and you understand what's going on
3787s is because
3789s humans naturally understand these
3791s properties yeah but if just doesn't
3793s deliver them yeah yeah let's do that
3797s yes anyone against this well we have
3811s another we have another infrastructure
3814s project that we're working on if Porter
3819s we shipped if portal three years ago so
3825s like that yeah and it's been in kind of
3829s a lot healthier state we worked with an
3836s external company on it but what we have
3839s done now is we've actually moved portal
3841s development in-house and so we have a we
3844s have a small team working on it portal
3846s and we have yeah we've basically kind of
3852s rebuilt it from the chrome top we're
3855s using a completely new back-end that
3857s allows us to do all sorts of fun and
3859s interesting things relatively quickly
3861s and we're also starting to experiment
3864s with with direct connection to the to
3867s the monolith or quote-on-quote direct
3869s connection to the monolith so kind of
3871s easing the strain of EC and which will
3874s also allow us in the future to do all
3877s sorts of interesting things and I have a
3879s couple of screenshots like we were not
3880s gonna do any like major announcements
3882s here but we decided to kind of we felt
3884s this fitted well into yeah it's working
3887s out here so I just have like a couple of
3891s screenshots and I think the the it's on
3894s feature parity with with the old portal
3896s up before that was a good starting point
3899s except now we have skilled management in
3903s the app so you can actually monitor
3906s skill
3910s and in the first version we have we
3915s actually have a skin browser as well and
3917s because of the the awesome work done
3921s earlier this year which is one of those
3922s kind of fix the stupid where you can
3924s inject skins from afar you can actually
3926s buy and inject skills from the app as
3929s well when I was on summer holiday this
3935s summer with my family I spent all my on
3937s skills that I did not know I needed but
3942s yeah it's interesting like this is like
3944s a tip of an iceberg it manifests like
3947s that but this is the result of a lot of
3949s deep tech investment we have been doing
3952s not only is experimenting on the fake
3954s 64-bit client direct x12 we're now in
3959s the process of really compiling all
3960s everything to Visual Studio 2018 a lot
3964s of stuff going on but some of this is in
3966s the sort of core infrastructure of the
3969s net or transport of the game the guys
3972s have been doing experiments with TR PCE
3974s and things like that which are actually
3976s potentially sort of low hanging fruit
3979s ways to improve even the flip fight
3980s situation yeah
3981s interests its current way but it also
3983s opens up for a pretty robust sort of
3986s bi-directional interactions with TQ yeah
3989s without the pin live client and while
3992s we're using the portal up now it's
3993s obviously we have control over we have
3995s to start somewhere where we where we're
3998s not exposing it too much but this can
4000s lead to amazing things where there is
4003s the ability to offer bi-directional
4005s connection the TQ under ways where it
4008s won't just affect the performance
4010s overall yeah and this is the first step
4014s obviously and we will have to continue
4016s to build on this but there's some
4018s serious capabilities with reppin are it
4020s underneath
4021s well yeah it's gonna be excited to kind
4024s of roll out in the years and decades to
4026s come yeah I mean they're incredible this
4029s has incredible potential and this kind
4032s of you know reading and writing directly
4035s into these fundamental systems I mean
4038s thousands of ideas yeah so little time
4042s yeah but yeah I'm very curious to see
4047s what the behavior here is gonna be
4049s whether Paulie parrots become a goon I
4052s yeah
4053s like buying skill vine skills every how
4055s much how often ID organize my skills q
4058s now for no apparent purpose it's just
4060s the it was when we first talked about
4062s this I was like I mean this is something
4063s that you you touch like every now and
4067s then not only wait like 200 days and do
4069s it again but nope you actually do it
4071s like three times a day any questions
4075s from the audience
4080s so now this is like just a sneak preview
4085s for us and everybody on the stream so
4087s when can we expect it more or less like
4091s ballpark next few weeks we're just
4095s waiting to go through all yeah we're
4098s just going through the approvals with
4102s that's amazing yeah yeah thanks great
4107s we're actually gonna run both apps in
4110s parallel to begin with we're not gonna
4111s swap out the Ulta just yet like this is
4117s still in like we thought it was
4119s important to get this out earlier to you
4121s guys just you know to hammer on it to
4124s break it to stress test it so yeah it's
4128s it's yeah and and to maybe add to that
4132s the reason why we're running them in
4134s parallel is that well believe it or not
4137s this is actually written in unreal yeah
4139s so this companion app is reacting in on
4141s route 4 so you can test them out in the
4144s capabilities we have underneath even
4147s though we're mostly making the current
4148s portal up with it then obviously once we
4150s run unreal 4 we we have amazing things
4153s we can do but it also brings a higher
4155s platform requirement so if you have an
4158s inset phone it might not work that's why
4161s we're keeping the author on we need to
4162s understand if there are too many players
4165s with old phones that cannot run this and
4168s the best way to do it is just to run
4170s them and polish yep but once we're kind
4172s of up to speed on this
4175s the company enough is written in hundred
4176s for it uses bi-directional interface
4178s with TQ you can just imagine what we can
4181s do from there
4182s if client on my mobile phone yes so with
4187s this it's possible and if you look at
4190s the work we're doing on echos then
4192s flying spaceships on a mobile phone is
4194s it's absolutely doable but but that's
4198s not the focus in the beginning now we're
4200s in the aspects of just building the
4201s foundations and then we'll take sensible
4204s steps but but what I mean we we are
4208s crazy people with them with sometimes we
4211s get crazy ideas in a sauna yeah I've got
4221s a question from the stream they want to
4222s know if this app will eventually allow
4224s them to do their planetary interaction
4225s as well while they're on the road so
4228s it's technically possible with this yeah
4230s I mean this this this connection with TQ
4234s opens up that possibility like it's it's
4239s definitely one of the one of the
4240s favorite topics of to talk about but we
4244s definitely wanted to the first thing
4247s that use is this type of connection with
4249s the TQ with Tiki we wanted something
4251s that was relatively well contained and
4256s relatively straightforward simple in
4259s many ways too so we can like easily test
4262s it we can easily like you know
4263s troubleshoot all the nitty-gritty I mean
4266s it sounds it looks innocent but there is
4269s like a monumental Monument amount of
4272s work and code behind this yeah and it's
4274s also something that everyone engages
4276s with yeah
4276s planetary direction of which I do a lot
4278s of it's it's not engaged with by all if
4283s players but I mean you you don't have to
4285s do a lot of planetary interaction to
4287s understand it's basically a mini game
4288s inside the game so whether it is inside
4290s the Eby or whether it's inside your
4293s portal app written in hundred four there
4296s could be ways on doing actually a much
4298s better job of that aspect of the game
4301s but we have to prioritize the work where
4304s it has the most impact and benefits the
4306s most players
4310s I asked you a question then off the
4313s stream as well if that's all right not
4314s regarding portal though this is going
4315s back just sort of the tech investment in
4318s general while back
4320s CCP did a purge of long term and active
4324s players and freed up user names and
4326s incorporation names and things like that
4328s I then he plans to do that again soon so
4331s [Music]
4333s we there is a part of the the investment
4338s in like new players and and early
4342s retention and part of that that work is
4347s to deal with the name situation so there
4352s are a couple of things on the drawing
4353s table right now nothing that I'm willing
4358s to talk about right now but you will you
4362s will you will hear from me very soon
4365s yeah but this element of like the
4368s namespace of EVE Online it and one of
4371s the issues which causes issues over time
4373s like if you try to make a cool name in
4375s EVE now in 2019 it's virtually
4377s impossible and it's like a extremely
4380s frustrating guessing game because the
4382s the system doesn't really help you
4384s you're at like guessing guessing
4386s guessing and then you just add some
4388s random stuff after just to have a unique
4390s name so and we've seen that in our data
4393s the level of time it takes to make a
4395s name for yourself is way too long part
4399s of that this pollution of the namespace
4400s part of that is even the the element of
4403s like okay the fact that every name has
4405s to be globally unique is is a challenge
4410s like it's not how reality is two people
4413s can have the same name
4414s obviously reputation identity these
4417s things are super important in EVE and
4419s it's represented in your unique name but
4423s finding a way to do that in a different
4424s way so that two people at the same name
4427s without if we were just to do that right
4431s now it would be a bad thing but but
4434s there is an element in in in in changing
4437s how identity is represented where that
4439s could be a way to fix the
4441s for good but but certainly the PERTs has
4446s been discussed yeah and Frankie he
4448s should just be done the names was that
4450s the namespace is over polluted with with
4454s like the 600,000 people last year that
4457s made the character logged in 90
4459s percenter corner of the 70s but their
4461s names remain yeah forever move to the
4468s next topic so just like the
4474s infrastructure we're also building the
4478s CCP of the future and yeah
4483s we've been kind of we've been been we're
4486s actually moving houses some of you you
4488s might have heard they've been at Toronto
4492s Canada now for 14 years 15 years 14
4496s years and just like you know just like
4503s the game we're constantly reinventing
4505s ourselves and trying to trying to you
4508s know push ourselves to the next decade
4511s yeah yeah it's interesting how a
4513s building and where you are like does
4517s make a difference yeah
4519s CCP was a very different company when we
4521s were in clapping and when you're on
4523s crammed together and it will be a
4524s different company when you move to this
4525s building yeah it's already a different
4528s company just in the preparation yeah
4531s yeah I have fun out of of Chronicle - so
4537s the new building is actually well
4539s underway we have a couple of images to
4542s share so this is this is the building
4546s last week we're going to visit this is
4550s it's a it's a huge building it's 17,000
4554s square meters and we will be occupying
4556s almost the whole of the third floor and
4559s the seat and CCP will be we will only
4562s use a single floor in the building so
4563s all the whole company will be on the
4565s same floor and we'll be using around
4567s 4,000 square meters or so and the
4570s buildings is situated on the University
4573s campus
4574s and right behind there you can see the
4577s biology department to the right UK there
4582s is a genetics big genetics company and
4584s to our left this uh it's like a
4587s pharmaceutical research company yes so a
4592s lot of brain power in very few square
4595s meters yeah
4597s but the the whole building will be kind
4598s of circled around round software and
4602s hopefully a lot of gaming and they will
4605s be like everything from you know small
4608s startups doing like office years to
4613s other companies kind of in our escape
4616s yeah it's actually very exciting to see
4618s this come together and for those of you
4621s who don't know
4622s CCP berker is actually an architect by
4624s training so his talents have been abused
4627s somewhat in designing this building I
4630s think Parker and I went to the mayor of
4632s Reykjavik but seven years ago now yeah
4634s and we went to like we need the plot for
4637s a new building for CCP at the University
4639s campus and he actually delivered it's a
4643s phenomenal plot got and we built this
4646s amazing house there and and it's very
4648s deliberately done on the premise of the
4651s University because we have been
4653s experimenting on taking quote-unquote
4656s kids from the University as employees
4659s and interns and all that and just like
4661s we're now in the process of embracing
4662s new eve players were in the process of
4664s embracing new CC peers and it is amazing
4668s what the kids do they can do yeah and
4671s and what they have impacted in the game
4674s because of then we live in the domain of
4676s like you have to play him online for 10
4678s years you have to learn Python start
4679s with Python all our endless legacy to be
4681s able to contribute something but we've
4683s just seen I mean what has been done it's
4686s a is amazing like all the project
4688s discovery work was basically done by
4690s interns yeah and and some of that like
4692s the protex discovery UI the UX of
4695s project discovery is better than many
4697s aspects of beam online yeah yeah and and
4700s it's also like finding life on on life
4703s yet it's finding plants first I need -
4705s first so I
4708s I think we will have a very interesting
4710s dynamic of doing much more collaboration
4713s with the University yeah and it's even
4715s the house is specifically built for that
4717s we're sharing space with the University
4720s inside the building yeah so it's gonna
4722s be very exciting for CCP we're kind of
4724s outside if you come to Reykjavik we're
4726s kind of in the outskirts we're kind of
4728s outside of the the main sort of area of
4731s regular human Dover clothes and now
4733s we're front and center where all the
4736s smartest people in Iceland are located
4742s yeah and there's the auditorium it's
4745s like we're actually gonna be using this
4747s at the end of the month we're doing a
4749s kickoff event yeah inside the company
4751s we're gonna have it there and they in
4753s the in the building I say there's no
4754s it's just complete floors it's gonna be
4756s exciting it's gonna be really exciting
4758s yeah I mean the two of us are gonna talk
4761s and we're gonna say something gonna say
4764s something yeah so hope people bring
4765s pillows yes yeah it's gonna take long
4772s yeah no it's a it's a the building is
4776s it's a really interesting project and
4779s really exciting project and it's a we've
4782s kind of the the we are kind of
4785s rethinking a lot on kind of how we set
4788s up and how we kind of interact with each
4790s other and how we work with each other I
4791s mean we're we're taking very interesting
4794s and active steps away from the bad myth
4797s of open floor plan so each team is gonna
4802s be kind of they're not gonna be closed
4803s off but they're kind of you know they
4805s they will have their own space with like
4807s a seating area and yeah it's like a
4810s really interesting dynamic it's very
4812s interesting these studies which have
4814s been coming out late of the of the myth
4816s of the open floor yeah but it's kind of
4818s one of these counterintuitive things of
4820s like you think open floor with increased
4822s communication mmm every student into the
4825s matter shows that it decreases
4827s communication yeah and people
4829s communicate more if they're of in
4830s offices rather than open floor which is
4833s kind of like we're studying anymore line
4834s and we find it's not about like people
4838s being nasty to each other it's actually
4839s the reverse of being super nice to each
4841s other
4842s yeah even though the the the Anna total
4846s myth is different and it's very much
4847s similar with this open floor plan and
4850s we've kind of seen it ourselves
4852s yeah I mean we were actually been doing
4854s doing some user testing on the new floor
4857s plan in this ethnicity offices so
4859s earlier this year we got contractors to
4861s come and change two of our floors and
4863s build a few prototypes of the workspaces
4866s as we're gonna have him in the new
4867s building and it was actually quite
4869s useful because we could just cross one
4871s off right of the back because it didn't
4873s work didn't work and so yeah we're
4876s learning mmm everyday kind of like
4878s making a meal and making the house yeah
4881s yeah I often say like man eating even
4884s line is like running a city it's yeah a
4889s party or suspects not like a country
4892s it's more like a series so it's more way
4893s more like a city they aren t a lot of
4898s janitorial work yeah some questions were
4904s quick questions from the stream first of
4907s all the Avon lion monument is that gonna
4910s stay where it is near their old CCP
4912s headquarters the with the existing names
4918s are you gonna any plans to update the
4921s name plates on on a ice off right now
4924s we're thinking about that just taking it
4926s as is right it's a really interesting
4931s question and it's a it's a it touches my
4934s my love of art kind of and and document
4938s documentation and I think the monument
4941s is the monument is a really beautiful
4946s snapshot of a moment in time and I think
4951s there is so in many ways I think it's
4955s quite beautiful that that we don't after
4958s the names because there there are names
4960s there of players were still playing
4961s there are names of players that have
4963s left the game and there are even names
4964s of players that have passed away so it
4968s is it's a really poetic moment when you
4971s see you know when it's fantastic when
4974s you see players look for their name
4975s but it's even more poetic when you see
4977s people look for their friends or for you
4979s know who passed away so yeah I get all
4984s like I can already sentimental when I
4985s think about this yeah but everybody's
4987s definitely moving yeah but I I think to
4990s Parker's point it's like it's a moment
4992s in time I mean at some point that game
4994s is 20 years old we should maybe do
4996s something different than memorialize
4998s that in some new way yeah like built a
5000s monument on the moon maybe yeah maybe
5002s that's for 30 years
5004s yeah Mars Mars for 30 yeah but I think
5008s you know I
5008s we definitely there's definitely gonna
5014s be some you know you will have will have
5016s plenty of eve online in the new building
5019s being with that theme as there is they
5021s have you guys decided to have like some
5023s sort of a cool statue in the lobby of
5025s the new building something Eve flavored
5028s well there's gonna be a lot of e flavor
5031s there's gonna be a lot of you flavor
5032s here in the building and we're gonna be
5034s a lot more I don't know I probably this
5039s proud about aspects of Eve and and of
5044s course the meeting rooms are gonna be
5045s named for the Eve community which yeah
5048s tn week is already exactly kicked that
5050s off it's gonna be a lot of mock boaty
5053s mcboatface
5053s yeah I think meeting like a meeting room
5058s meeting no I think like one of the
5065s things that that last 18 months at CCP
5069s have been very interesting and a lot of
5072s like things have changed a lot of a lot
5075s of changes lot of shifts but one of the
5077s more positive shift that has happened is
5081s that the company is way more focused on
5084s EVE Online and we're way more like we
5087s spend way less time kind of thinking
5091s about all the other things and and EVE
5094s Online has definitely kind of you know
5097s it's kind of risen to the the very
5100s forefront of everyone's mind and and
5102s kind of the level of pride and the
5104s company has written a lot all the last
5106s 18 months I think and with the move to
5109s the new
5109s building and hopefully some interesting
5112s things that's that's yeah yeah so that
5115s there is gonna be a lot more expression
5117s of human mind in this building than
5119s building of course we just have more
5122s stuff to play with now rather than when
5124s we moved to moved in 2005 there it's
5127s still just busy keeping the server's
5129s alive back then yeah yeah so next topic
5136s are you reading in much
5137s yeah what's next it's a big one what
5141s about the economy all those burgers and
5145s station and your CCP burger I'm cooking
5150s burgers
5150s yeah I'm cooking burgers tonight yeah
5152s yeah this is a theme I see yeah well it
5157s certainly was out of control like today
5161s when we have been well the problems have
5164s been accumulating it's it's this
5167s elements with economy they they they
5169s move in well they can move fast but
5172s mostly they move and and escalate and
5175s we've been having this gradual
5177s escalating problem of the the forces and
5181s sinks as we call them and for maybe
5183s people that are not deep in well game
5188s economy this is mostly used in game
5189s economies so the way the in line economy
5193s works is that money is introduced into
5195s the game through player activity that is
5197s called a faucet and then it's taken out
5199s of the game throw sink and a seek is
5203s every time you pay the money into the
5207s MPC economy because actually players
5211s trading with each other is not a sink
5213s that is just flossing their money around
5216s understand bathtub it neither generates
5219s new money or destroys money but every
5223s time the NPC economy gives you money for
5225s example killing a pirate and a bounty or
5227s the NPC economy takes away money for
5230s example with market taxes
5231s then the money leaves and because there
5234s are spin the condition where NPC
5236s bounties in particular have been
5239s massively almost I would use the word
5242s exploit
5243s but it's not really an exploit because
5245s nobody has broken any any rules but it's
5248s just frankly we have not done a good
5252s enough job of managing this aspect and
5255s we have taken some drastic actions which
5257s have put the situation in a lot better
5259s place and like was asked earlier on the
5262s stream the riskier Awards were about
5265s rewards now we're actually for the first
5268s time in a long time where we can start
5270s to introduce new revolts into the into
5273s the equation yeah
5274s because we've got in the current
5275s situation more under control I wouldn't
5278s say it's perfectly where I would want to
5280s have it and you can see this expressed
5283s it's actually I love seeing dialog about
5286s flex prices mm-hmm and people are saying
5290s flex prices are rising and falling but
5293s it is one way to look at it I always
5295s look at it differently is that the the
5298s price of the ISK is rising and falling
5300s yeah and it's actually interesting the
5303s price of isk and even line represents
5306s the value of work in the economy mm-hmm
5311s because if you if it's if I sky is hard
5314s to come by then the work is hard if the
5318s price of the sky is high then the work
5321s is easy yeah
5322s so when we see the ayat a strengthening
5325s like it's doing now against the plugs
5328s it's because the value of work in the
5330s economy and work is represented by for
5333s example killing parrot conquered is
5337s paying you to do it literally conquered
5341s is paying people to kill parrots or or
5344s support or or getting parties that's why
5347s it's it's a form of work so seeing that
5350s is an example of like now we have gotten
5352s this to a better situation where the
5355s money is worth something because it been
5358s worth very little for too long yeah and
5362s I mean we're at a point now where where
5366s this scene is a it's actually a
5369s relatively common scene that we're
5371s seeing on the screen now where Titan
5374s suggests
5376s this possibly exactly tightens the
5381s tightened represent so many example of
5384s air of CCP or air of EVE online probably
5388s more than CP a needs to end they are a
5392s construct that Maxis know the design
5395s patterns visit following making in mind
5397s stuff hmm
5399s the fact that you can store a Titan
5401s which is the size of us theory in
5403s perfect asset safety for ever and it's
5407s never at risk is and the fact that it
5410s doesn't have any operating expensive
5412s it's it's it's it's a it's a thing we
5416s need to address yeah I'm sure yeah
5424s contemplating this it's yeah yes the
5431s monthly economic report for July is
5433s going to look it's gonna look quite
5436s interesting the the initial numbers that
5439s I've seen are definitely very
5442s interesting I'm also really excited
5446s about I'm very excited about seeing the
5448s the office numbers actually because a
5450s lot of the change there were so many
5452s rapid changes in July and August August
5457s has been more kind of a little more
5461s balanced yeah it's it's these are
5467s numbers that we follow very very closely
5469s yep I mean we don't have to guess we
5472s know but it's not like we see the early
5473s k peers and and it just represents at
5477s the situation with the bounties and the
5479s situation with the money supply isn't a
5481s much healthier state right now that was
5483s some of it is knee-jerk responses so
5488s with these things you have to you have
5491s to look at a longer timeline to really
5494s know what's going on we have made pretty
5496s drastic changes to wherever the mara of
5499s EVE Online if you call it act and and
5502s what emerged is is
5506s some of the initial changes are pretty
5509s predictable hmm but the long-term
5511s aspects are are not as predictable as
5516s any armed tear economists in any economy
5521s will yell you cannot and us living in
5524s Iceland know this the best like there
5526s were so many arbiter economists that
5528s explained the economic collapse of
5530s Iceland after the fact
5531s yeah and there were also many economists
5533s which predicted it be for the fact
5535s because if you predict rain for 10 years
5538s it's gonna rain at some point
5539s mm-hmm and it's just like from living
5542s through experiments like the isolytic
5544s economic meltdown you start to learn of
5548s like trying to ask Berkeley a way out of
5550s all economy problems yes just like it's
5552s not the way to do it yeah but at the
5554s same time like it's a it's definitely a
5555s rabbit hole you know we find ourselves
5557s often in like the rating exactly
5559s debating the economy and and oftentimes
5563s you oftentimes we we forget that you
5567s know being an economist it's little bit
5570s like being of element there just yeah
5573s you know you're trying to learn from
5574s previous pattern of what might possibly
5576s happen tomorrow yes we debate it way too
5579s much and too little
5581s yeah and it's amazing when you actually
5583s just yeah do something and learn from it
5586s exactly and not ever just doing
5588s something I mean there there is a yeah
5592s definitely am a student and yeah but
5595s there are no guaranteed outcomes in this
5601s will be out soon
5603s yeah all right so here's some questions
5604s from the audience actually data that
5612s you're getting for the economy but do
5615s you have any data that uh like with the
5619s eat economy and the real up economy do
5621s you have any data that I suppose like
5624s that do they fluctuate as same so we
5630s don't look at fluctuations in the real
5633s economy to the eve economy that much
5636s because fluctuations in the real economy
5639s are so tight
5640s because it's a global game so you have
5643s to isolate them out we do see aspects
5648s when they're drastic changes in
5649s country's economy yeah Nate we saw a
5656s very distinct increase in player
5658s activity throughout the world when there
5660s was the worldwide economic crisis and I
5664s think all entertainment products saw
5665s similar effects because people they went
5669s less out of their house they drove their
5670s car less they traveled less and they
5672s ended up playing more in line for
5676s example we've seen when currency changed
5679s in the world
5680s it's very notable in Russia the behavior
5684s of Russian players and their purchases
5686s of plaques based on the strength or
5688s weakness of the table and the table has
5690s been going up and down quite a bit in
5694s the last decade so we see those things
5695s correlate we have run experiments in the
5700s eve economy to validate economic theory
5703s from reality because we have more data
5706s and reality actually so like pricing
5710s Burpo's how they trend how they form
5712s those kind of things we have done
5714s studies with university to validate kind
5717s of us out of the imposter syndrome of is
5720s it a real economy we we spent the first
5722s 10 years wondering I think it's an
5724s economy but it's what you learn when you
5727s will work with economists is that real
5730s economies are not real economies like
5733s all country economies are statistical
5736s approximations of human behavior no
5739s central bank in the world has the level
5741s of perfect data we have we have way
5743s better data than a central bank managing
5745s a country economy and believe me
5747s during the economy collapse obviously
5750s was running a company in Iceland and
5752s when your banking system goes away you
5754s have to learn a lot about like how the
5756s banking system work to run a company so
5758s in the in the panics moments of 2008
5761s when when the banking system Iceland
5763s disappeared
5763s I was literally finding ways to pay our
5767s employees in China out of her bank
5769s account in the Netherlands
5771s global collector ceremony through
5773s database table
5774s JPMorgan which is one of the 12
5776s databases that stores all the American
5778s dollars when you look at that and see
5780s their attack infrastructure is like oh
5782s my god guys I could run the whole world
5784s on the Eagle infrastructure I would do a
5785s better job anyway backtracking a little
5788s bit for the first year ten years we were
5790s figuring out is the real economy
5792s lalalala all economies are fake ours is
5795s more real than anyone else we have
5796s because we have better data and we have
5798s validated with like PhD or economist of
5801s the vasu that most economic theory you
5804s can test in reality are violet in your
5806s life so you hinted on the Titans that
5814s there might be some more expenses coming
5816s how about property in general like now
5818s you can like in market you can store
5821s however lots of stuff so stations having
5827s infinite guarantee on all assets it's a
5830s it's a cop out we we spent a lot of time
5834s designing a system where inventory space
5837s would be a thing in if even to the point
5840s because once you start to constrain
5843s inventory it's actually putting things
5845s on the market and storing them on the
5847s market
5847s yeah because an exploit of inventory
5850s management system and we just didn't
5852s have time to solve I could UX for
5854s inventory management and the exploit of
5856s storing things in orders on the market
5858s so we just didn't and now as a
5860s consequence we have this expectation
5864s tradition of assets being safe and it's
5868s just it breaks the pattern of it's not
5873s possible to do in the real world in any
5877s way nobody in the real world can
5878s guarantee an asset against everything
5882s like Fort Knox is not guaranteed against
5885s an alien invasion or a meteor hitting it
5890s like the the Icelandic economy kind of
5893s guarantee well pretty much anything less
5895s than our experience so so this element
5898s is is a problem it doesn't occur to the
5902s few things I would call principles of if
5904s design of like you should not make
5906s things that
5907s not be done and if you think of an MPC
5911s station in a futuristic sci-fi world it
5913s would not be safe it is there you can
5916s exploit it like unless we make some
5918s sci-fi about like it's stored in the
5920s quantum realm then it just it it it it
5926s isn't correct
5926s how to how to address it it's not easy
5930s no and and and it needs to done with
5934s care because we've built up an
5935s expectation over sixteen years that the
5937s assets are safe but first we need to
5939s stop perpetuating the problem by
5941s introducing new design which follow that
5943s path pattern and we need to unwind some
5945s of the elements in the game like asset
5946s safety and embassy stations in general
5949s such that everything is potentially at
5952s risk but obviously you also need control
5955s to control that risk whether we should
5958s introduce like effects as a way to
5960s manage the control is is it's
5966s challenging because it can also be
5967s tedious like if you're if you're if
5970s you're paying rent all the time it's
5974s it's it's also a game so yeah so you
5976s have to maybe come up with better
5978s conceit that rather than just that
5980s there's a bill for everything but I
5984s think in principle we we me to a stop
5986s perpetuating and we start to wind down
5989s some of the the issues that have built
5992s up over time yeah I mean loss has
5995s meaning loss has meaning and any suit
5997s have the ability to occur yeah yeah yeah
6000s we have situations where we have a lot
6002s of situations right now where loss has
6004s absolutely no meaning at all
6005s yeah and that kind of okay yeah yeah
6010s unhealthy steps away from can see the
6013s the core elements and the core rules of
6016s the universe so or questions I'm sure
6022s people when asked more about this as you
6026s hinted on the Titans being able to dock
6029s and just sit there safe and sound
6033s are you guys thinking informs of changes
6037s up that they can no longer dock
6041s for example because I'm a CEO and
6046s Parker's our creative director and we
6048s are responsible for vision and strategy
6049s for this game and we can say things like
6051s this this is a problem we won't address
6054s it
6054s yeah as soon as you get in to meet the
6056s gritty specifics well a that we have
6058s people that are experts at that and they
6060s need to be able to do their jobs once we
6062s have contextualized it like that but we
6064s can tell to you high level we view this
6067s as a problem and we view it as a problem
6069s because it's a problem with the
6071s principles of how we want to manage the
6073s game yeah and and we need to do
6075s something about that I know there's
6078s always call out and people go into
6080s specifics because there are so many
6082s ideas around and and some of them are
6084s pretty good but but at this point in
6088s time here in this finish house I think
6090s like confirming anything like I said
6093s safety is gone there's not a sound bite
6104s it's just too detailed we we are for all
6108s our law for shooting from the hip we
6110s actually don't do that except sometimes
6124s which leads us to that were that left
6129s that quote that you came up with a
6132s couple of weeks ago yeah it's taken off
6135s it's taking off simply befitting yeah
6140s spin it's been interesting couple of
6144s months and Eve yes it has
6147s mm-hmm I've never seen a Smith I look
6149s around the game I would never that's not
6151s true I've seen a lot of dialogue yeah
6153s but it certainly it's more passionate
6155s and it's very passionate what it was at
6157s the beginning of the year yeah yeah and
6160s it's it's it feels like the the you know
6167s make it more heart make it harder for
6169s the veterans easier for the new players
6173s yes definitely hating that yes yeah III
6177s think like you're saying Packer is that
6180s the the strategy around him online on a
6184s very high level and more like goals
6186s rather than strategy per se is to
6188s increase challenges for veteran players
6190s of him online and to decrease the
6193s challenges of new players of EVE Online
6196s if you look at the past five years we
6199s have done the reverse they've actually
6201s increased the challenges for new players
6203s yeah because the sprawling complexity
6205s increase of the game and we have been
6207s decreasing challenges for veteran
6209s players because we have given so many
6212s tools and so men's access and control to
6216s players to organize the underlying chaos
6219s in the world which is now after an
6221s extent where it's gone yeah so while the
6225s caves that are which is inspired by this
6228s great book we both read mm-hmm the the
6231s three party problem it is a good moniker
6234s for it it actually is quite good then no
6239s the the point per se chaos is more a
6243s tool to to sort of top below the
6247s stagnation that has been building up
6249s yeah over the I don't know how long it
6252s is 5-10 years where we start to count so
6255s while it's it's currently done with
6260s these tracer bullets manual activity and
6263s all that ideally we will empower the
6267s universe with more ability to organize
6270s its own chaos yeah but right now if just
6272s needs help if if does not have the
6276s ability to reinvent itself and we have
6279s not introduced into the economy tools
6281s for players to actually do the
6283s innovation because the real world does
6285s this through tough disruption yeah like
6289s established old companies in the reality
6291s as disrupted by startups through tech
6293s innovation there is some innovation and
6296s Eve through I mean people have done
6298s extremely innovative things with
6299s doctrines with tactics with strategies
6302s etc but it is not portable currently
6306s anymore
6306s to invest a new thing that fundamentally
6309s gives you an ad over established
6312s entities yeah so we have to help him
6315s online and some of it is the activities
6319s we have been doing which are which are
6321s orchestrated by us but behind the scenes
6323s we will be building up the ability for
6326s Eve to reinvent itself because with AI
6329s procedural generation etc there are so
6331s many tools now yeah to do that which
6333s weren't available when the plantations
6335s were sacked and we are also seeing that
6337s in in many ways that the game is taking
6341s control off itself and you know it is
6345s yes see it is like you know in some in
6349s some cases like it's it is not CCP
6353s receive online and EVE Online is its own
6356s reality it's it's it's you know it's
6360s interesting you say it like I often I've
6363s obviously been quoting code but living
6365s with EVE Online for two decades mmm and
6368s to me it's almost like a almost like a
6373s second wife somebody in the audience
6374s says no it's it's more a mistress Dunham
6376s I've liked dominatrix probably more but
6382s it is like living with a with a with a
6384s living entity it seems to have a veil on
6386s its own yeah and maybe it's like just
6389s like you know a real human being it's
6391s you know you're coming up on the 17th
6393s birthday yeah when you're 17 like you're
6396s not as you know silly as you were when
6398s you're 16 no exactly and you know yeah
6401s and not as compliant with yeah with the
6403s rules
6404s yeah household yeah sorry just maybe
6407s going through like kind of the late teen
6408s years now yeah trying to get her to like
6412s let us know if she's staying for dinner
6413s or not yeah please call home no I'm sure
6419s we have questions so obviously the
6423s blackout had a profound effect on null
6426s SEC have you got anything in the
6428s pipeline chaos wise for wormholes or
6431s lowsec space I well do we have anything
6438s planned I think we have
6440s nation issues across the board I think
6446s for example when it comes to wormholes
6448s there are now established routine
6451s process oriented repetitive ways to
6454s manage the complexity of wormholes like
6457s rolling down statics all these things
6459s there too they are too tedious patan
6466s tech there's too much control yeah
6469s through that so I mean it's almost
6470s become like a they've almost kind of hit
6474s kind of a motoring skill in a way you're
6475s no it's not it's not it's active but
6479s it's still like it's it's routine mmm
6481s and if you look at some of the community
6484s tools that are created like it is gone
6487s into a place where the the sensor
6490s control to are unpredictable outcome
6492s needs to be addressed and I think the
6496s ease of closing down holes is is
6501s something that needs to be taking a look
6502s at and incidentally there apparently are
6506s a lot of work for players in Finland
6508s I wonder why very famous Finnish thing
6513s to do I guess and we have gone into an
6518s inspiring conversation on what could be
6521s done yeah but I think wormholes like no
6523s space like lowsec all need attention
6529s I think highsec needs are different
6530s attention yeah that that is more about
6532s embracing new players what about
6534s something like we're doing with were
6536s decoration protecting people from
6538s bullies in their first years like having
6543s unregulated bullying going on in our
6545s playground it's just not a plan I mean
6548s it's fine for it to happen in certain
6549s places but not in the neonatal care of
6552s new players like infant mortality is an
6555s issue in Eve and it needs addressing
6560s now that we've been having fun with the
6562s Kaos era have a special blackout but we
6566s actually see some more uneven
6569s distribution of resources in Nasik old
6572s space in the future great that's a great
6579s question and a great topic yeah I mean
6582s it's very easy to answer the question
6584s from a vision and principle standpoint
6587s it is too stagnant
6589s it should not be stuck a lot mm-hmm it's
6593s too predictable yeah and it was it was
6598s made with an algorithm that procedurally
6600s generated the world if does not have the
6603s ability to procedurally regenerate
6605s itself even it's that ability if Eve had
6609s that ability
6610s it would not have the resources division
6612s stagnant so finding ways to a quick beam
6615s online with the ability to regenerate
6616s itself in unpredictable ways ways with
6619s or even improve unpredictable to us yeah
6621s it's something that need to occur it is
6624s not trivial to do but but that is where
6631s we should take it yeah but I mean this
6633s is again this is more from a vision and
6636s strategy point of view and this is where
6640s the conversation has been for for quite
6643s some time now and we're definitely we
6646s keep the conversation life so one more
6653s question yeah so this not so much maybe
6656s about the question or maybe more of the
6659s observation of the economy and chaos era
6663s especially how I see it I don't know if
6665s you see it the same way it's like you
6667s like the trust busters of the 1900 1900s
6670s you are trying to they make make sure
6673s that no trust no monopoly will be
6675s dominant in the game I'm my own the
6678s right tracks here or is this something
6680s that throwing you some new bones
6684s yeah wouldn't necessarily go there maybe
6687s I think yeah yeah well I mean you use
6690s trust and it's it's good to build on
6692s that so a trust should be a commodity
6696s yeah antitrust yeah III realize we're
6699s like breaking monopoly circles it's
6703s actually I would more take the trust
6705s just word you've said is that when you
6708s give people two up tools to abstract the
6711s way trust then Trust is no longer a
6713s commodity and there's betrayal is not a
6717s severe thing so one of the elements we
6721s debated to no end before making him
6723s online was how quickly does the game
6726s reads a staple position where somebody
6729s has won because they're able to control
6732s more than half of the world so they
6734s where we would have an actual antitrust
6737s situation how quickly will that happen
6740s our theory was always certain entity
6744s will always be torn down from the inside
6748s because if you make trust the commodity
6750s there is only so many people you can
6753s trust
6753s you need hierarchy systems processes
6756s structure control to increase the trust
6758s and those are all elements to engineer
6760s trust out of the equation and man has in
6764s invested many ways to do that companies
6767s nations law and order notion of
6771s possession exactly are ways to engineer
6772s thrust out of the way but Eve has gone
6776s too far far so the valuable the the
6780s laboratory leti of trust between people
6782s needs to be increased and some of that
6785s is taken away control mechanisms which
6787s are inside the game obviously a lot of
6789s extremely impressive Eve organizations
6791s have a lot of trust mode engineering
6794s element outside of the game which we of
6797s course cannot eat the fate of it per se
6799s but I think one of the elements coming
6801s out of the bucket is how much ESI is a
6803s is a is used for OPSEC and that was not
6808s the original impact so when like Ezekiel
6812s and Oakland joined the blackout I hear
6815s from many players that was a bigger
6816s issue than the
6817s actual blackout so III would say rather
6821s than going in in the nineteen hundred
6823s styles manually breaking up monopolies
6826s like you said I would rather find ways
6829s to increase the valuable but increase
6832s the value of trust over time such that
6835s people have the ability to tear down
6837s large organizations from the inside I
6841s think with that question we're gonna do
6843s a five-minute break use the restroom and
6846s then come back and go through some other
6848s interesting topics welcome back yeah
6857s just heard we've been talking for like
6858s two and a half hours yeah time flies
6860s when you're having fun yeah time flies
6862s for an ear in Finland yeah so next topic
6868s inspiration from Eve past present and
6871s future if it's a it's a really
6877s interesting piece than we were talking
6879s about this we were talking about this
6880s earlier that you know in the 16 years
6883s that since the game came out like we're
6887s talking about kind of how technology has
6888s evolved but it's also this kind of how
6891s like this reality not reality has
6895s changed a lot throughout the last 16
6899s years or actually like 20 years that CCP
6901s has been around yeah and I mean we we're
6904s still kind of running on on a kind of a
6908s twenty-year old paradigm when it comes
6909s to sci-fi and and even sci-fi has kind
6912s of yeah they must be taking massive
6914s leaps absolutely it's it it's like they
6918s were announcing the matrix for was it
6921s yesterday or yeah a couple of weeks
6922s okapis a few days ago yeah it was
6925s actually interesting with that because I
6926s remember this one time when we were
6929s making if we all went to see the matrix
6931s together which is like the matrix is
6936s it's such a the way they do the sci-fi
6940s is so like like it's very good for a
6944s movie because the movie is now timeless
6947s because the style is so crisp and clear
6949s yeah the
6951s it is almost timeless and it's kind of
6953s almost like I don't know sort of like a
6955s steampunk
6956s version of sci-fi but it is deep and per
6958s se but it's like it's a very particular
6961s sort of 80s green terminal font
6964s ya know carefully click phones you know
6967s it's actually one of the click phones
6968s but they made it in the movie or the
6971s leather and contacts like it's a very
6973s sort of crisp style and Eve like even
6977s the beginning like the TV's at Jeff
6980s gates were like actual actual like CRT
6983s TVs with the lacy feels and and that
6986s particular it delays in fact and and the
6989s we actually didn't have green font but
6991s we had this particular type of font
6993s which is very close to the terminal font
6996s yeah and very close to bedtime now it's
6998s actually used in Yemen pro-soviet in the
7001s 95 and and now we like even line because
7005s it's a living breathing sci-fi world
7007s mm-hmm some of the stuff is getting a
7010s little dated yeah but we are constantly
7013s evolving and everything it was great
7016s before Easter damn yeah I actually went
7020s through and I I thought I'd like a 10
7022s minute retrospective of the UI in-game
7025s because we're gonna be know we're
7026s looking at this new dark style UI that
7028s the agency has and yeah now we're
7030s looking at new new features to kind of
7034s atop the side and it was actually
7038s amazing going through kind of the
7040s history of the UI in game and and you
7042s know I went as far back as you know 99
7045s and 2000 like way before we reshape the
7047s game and you can see like yeah that's
7049s kind of in 99 there's a very strong link
7052s to matrix there's like you can see like
7054s before you guys went to see the movie
7056s and the day after
7058s it's like rip the carpet from underneath
7062s yeah it's also shared inspiration like
7064s yeah a lot of what inspired the matrix
7066s the same things inspired him online
7068s absolutely but it's actually you
7070s mentioned the UI but it's what I've
7072s actually been quite happy about what you
7074s guys have been doing and it's like the
7076s the infographic on the starcade
7078s yeah where you're showing something
7080s which is obviously not a physical thing
7082s it looks like an A
7084s our infographic inside the world and and
7087s when you think about it okay we're in a
7088s pot we have a camera thrown it's feeding
7091s imagery into our brain it would be so
7093s easy for that drone to it delays
7095s additional data possible to it if we're
7098s gonna have a are in our reality with
7100s glasses on to see extra information your
7103s LinkedIn profile so I can remember your
7105s name
7105s hopefully that happens a day not your
7108s name
7113s anyway I I like that that seems like
7116s futuristic yeah that we have taken their
7119s CRT monitors yeah and now we have this
7121s kind of cool
7122s AR style and we kind of evolved yeah
7125s that feels future forward and I think we
7128s should do more of that with like mm-hmm
7130s some of the rarest enough like some of
7132s the like ship schemes if you were like a
7137s left there like industrial designer yeah
7141s working for making a ships game for RCA
7145s you would be way more oh yeah you
7149s expressive than what we offer currently
7151s yeah I and and and very more breaking
7154s the most I wish we would like push that
7157s a little more to work like yeah we've
7160s actually been developing a lot of tack
7161s around things like that we did I mean
7165s there was a been a couple of skins that
7168s have actually had like banners high in
7170s town we had a skin that that came out a
7173s couple of weeks ago word actually
7175s changes colors when he go into warp you
7177s know stuff like that so they're taking
7179s in the state of the state of the world
7181s state of your actions and it's all kind
7185s of done with this idea of creating more
7188s reasons to look at space yeah like there
7191s is a there's a benefit and a reason to
7194s like move your eyes from the from the
7197s lists and the spreadsheets and then to
7199s the spacing and give it you know give it
7202s valuable information and give it give it
7205s a reason to be a participant in the
7208s scene you know and as a benefit the
7210s world becomes way more alive in because
7213s of it and there it just really you know
7215s it
7216s it becomes much more of a you get a much
7222s stronger sense of the of the living
7224s breathing universe it is because it is a
7226s very vibrant space like this is
7229s constantly like the matter is constantly
7231s evolving with with corporations being
7234s formed and and you know despondent and
7236s people fighting over stuff and blowing
7239s stuff up
7239s yeah but oftentimes the the game kind of
7242s doesn't a quit yeah like it doesn't kind
7245s of tell you hey you know five hours ago
7248s this this space was in like samples yeah
7251s there's nothing going on here I actually
7253s felt that quite a bit - so then you
7255s Stargate yeah it was like huh okay I
7258s don't know looking at the starcade so
7259s excited to see what this is and it's
7261s like thinking what is it is it a or is
7264s it this I could also give you
7266s information what's happening on the
7268s other side kind of yeah I wish we could
7271s do something with the characters like
7273s this like more I don't know having a
7276s character in spaces maybe but maybe not
7278s like maybe there's a way yeah so some
7281s inspired mmm
7283s sci-fi concept yeah and also I mean also
7287s just underlined in the fact that you
7292s were not the spaceship yeah you are the
7295s you are the capsule air flying that
7296s spaceship and you should care about the
7299s chrome and should not care about the
7301s space it that's you know that blows up
7303s and you build a new one then you know we
7305s go and blow up bigger things yeah this
7311s is actually one of my favorite pictures
7314s in fan made picture I've ever it's the
7321s Corp Cube if it's a serious matter
7326s that is a serious matter yeah Heather I
7329s was asked to do a presentation for the
7331s fine art department at the art school
7334s yes I was at Hearst yeah it's like yes I
7338s came in her store and they wanted to
7340s like they wanted me to like talk about
7344s art and Eve and I totally misunderstood
7347s I thought they were talking about actual
7350s art
7350s making art in events cultures and like I
7353s think this is one of the best examples
7354s of a beautiful sculpture and Eve but
7357s they were just they wanted to know about
7359s comes about and 3d art is that deep deep
7364s presentation about you know the all
7366s because you know there is so much
7368s freedom there is so much you know you
7371s can you can carve your own space and you
7373s can create your own path and you know
7375s when you get to uh when you get you know
7378s when you have you know the the core
7379s functionalities and everything that
7380s supports that and then now all the jobs
7382s that support the support jobs and then
7385s you know you get a layer out and you
7386s start to get like artists because you
7388s know people in the world want
7389s entertainment they want to like go and
7391s see an art show so I was I've always
7393s seen this as a it's actually one of like
7397s my private moments and Eve because it's
7400s it's yo set you know it's so real that
7402s we have mm-hmm
7403s so much expression yeah so much
7406s expression and it creates so many
7410s emotions yeah you're talking about Eve
7418s and you've been talking about movies and
7421s things that inspired it is there still
7423s this is from the stream is there still
7425s an ambition to get a version of Eve on
7427s either the big or the small screen it's
7431s certainly an ambition to do that it just
7436s it's not as easy as it sounds ya know
7439s I've found out and it needs serious
7442s dedication of resources and time and
7444s it's just something that we have been
7447s dabbling in and our table it's not going
7449s very far I mean still I mean I think
7452s game of cards to seven years to get done
7455s so I mean it just takes long a long a
7458s time but there is the impatient it's not
7462s a huge priority right now we're more
7465s focusing on the game you know the
7467s addressing elements in the game we won't
7469s address in a bit talking now for almost
7470s three hours about mm-hmm
7472s so that is a much bigger priority but I
7475s think there's a lot about Eve as a as a
7480s narrative fiction as a world as as many
7483s of these things
7484s that should be explored in other forms
7488s of media we've obviously done books
7490s comics things like that but getting it
7493s as a as a TV series I think it's the
7496s best format you know the movie would be
7498s it's it's like Game of Thrones it's hard
7501s to make a movie about Game of Thrones
7502s and it's hard to make a movie about Eve
7503s but you could do a mind TC soon I mean
7509s we have real exploration if we have
7511s endless stories and you know it's a it's
7514s definitely something we would all love
7517s to yeah and yeah but we have
7519s unfortunately made little progress and
7522s it's mainly because it is something
7524s we're dabbling in and and it's not gonna
7526s be a big priority the probabilities on
7530s the elements we have been talking about
7531s here yep you were talking about getting
7536s like DUI
7537s more up to date getting more data a
7540s little bit a are like for streamers is
7545s there a possibility to tone that
7548s information down as well is that
7551s something that you have been thinking
7554s about because it like the information is
7557s nice if you're just playing on yourself
7559s with by yourself but while streaming
7563s sometimes it can give you in interesting
7566s interactions and sometimes unwanted
7568s interactions well I've never thought
7572s about that
7573s no I haven't really thought about it but
7575s it may make sense when you say it yeah
7579s yeah I I think overall this element of
7581s streamers and streaming and Eve is
7583s something we fantasized about yeah
7585s maybe a decade ago hmm and we tried to
7587s make happen at some point yeah and it
7589s just didn't happen and we thought maybe
7591s the game can't be streamed now obviously
7594s people have found ways to stream it and
7596s make it super engaging so and and and
7598s and that is like many things you need in
7600s line player invention that you can
7604s stream the game so that it is
7606s interesting to Eve players and even
7607s non-leaf players so I think it's
7610s something we need to pay more attention
7611s to there are very interesting tools
7614s actually bits come online
7617s which we'll put in place for portal
7621s about the bi-directional interaction and
7623s there are now all the streaming
7625s platforms are doing interaction from
7628s audience to streamer and now that we
7631s have the other way it it is it is we
7634s have the ability of orchestrating an
7637s interaction like if you imagine in
7640s Hunger Games when patrons are sending
7643s gifts into the Hunger Game ads we do
7648s have the ability to do that in EVE like
7650s the the technical foundations are in
7652s place and and if you start to maybe
7655s brainstorm what could it be like like if
7658s you're a streamer like you have a
7660s million camera drones around you like
7662s based on how many people are watching
7663s you so you see a space if it's a lot of
7665s thromes
7665s okay it's a streamer a lot of streamers
7669s operate on just people giving them stuff
7671s to sustain like all the spaceships you
7674s lose and things like that maybe there's
7676s a way to create some economy around that
7679s because we do have the ability we've
7682s already integrated with to its prime
7684s through our SSO infrastructure so key
7686s hearing a whole loop going on would be
7689s possible and I I think we probably need
7691s to talk more with streamers of like what
7693s is your vilest idea what's the Maurice
7695s you think you could think of no okay
7700s okay I see remind 3y3 - yeah but I mean
7705s it's it's I actually I I watch a lot of
7709s streams like often times you know I
7713s don't I don't have the time to play the
7716s game as much as I want to and also kind
7719s of having a recognizable voice it's not
7721s the most ideal thing when you're playing
7725s Eve with all this yeah the the the
7728s excuse that I'm a girl or or or that I
7732s have a sore throat only goes so far
7734s until people like start to call me out
7736s in and I move corporations so I
7740s actually what's a lot of streams just to
7741s kind of keep keep with the meta keep
7745s with what's going on and the dialogue
7747s and I think
7749s yeah it's definitely like you streamers
7753s have definitely kind of proven us wrong
7754s because yeah there was a the sentiment
7757s was very much that like yeah no nobody
7760s want to watch nobody wants to watch this
7761s but there is yeah there is great
7762s entertainment there and great streamers
7768s yeah so good point so I'm a bit taken
7774s aback while we're talking about
7775s streaming stuff my question was actually
7777s gonna be about you said about technology
7780s and skins and identity for players with
7785s the you mentioned the skins like you
7787s have the permabanned skinned with the
7790s hologram of home band on the side the
7792s drapes and things like that is that that
7796s could that be a forerunner to having
7798s corpse and alliances on skins because if
7800s you were in look at any air force in the
7802s world in the real world they all have a
7806s symbol on it that says we are this we
7808s are this squadron we are this country in
7811s New Eden shouldn't that be a thing
7813s shouldn't you be able to fly the flag of
7816s your Alliance or your Corp on your ship
7818s because you sure as hell would paint it
7819s on there
7825s yeah we've comfortable tenet we've done
7827s few prototypes in the past of this some
7832s of them have accidentally leaked in
7834s promotional materials so people can like
7837s take nerve through all the press
7839s releases and it's something we've
7843s explored a lot one of the issues with
7846s that we found with Alliance logos or
7850s corporation logos on ships is that they
7852s become very small and very hard to see
7855s so we've also been we also played with
7858s like different ideas like is it is it
7861s you know is it more like kind of classic
7864s racing where you where you're flying
7866s your colors you know almost like kind of
7868s classic Monte Carlo races where you know
7870s it's it's company has its own race
7873s tribes like is that something we could
7874s do and we've looked at you know going
7879s more down like a banner route where you
7881s have specific banner ships and
7883s you know more kind of a classic you know
7886s Napoleon era type type identity but I
7890s the idea of kind of displaying your
7893s identity and you know showing pride in
7896s who you are and where you come from is
7898s is yeah it's very near and dear to my
7901s heart but it's something that we want to
7902s do when we do it we're gonna do it well
7905s you know I this is one of those features
7907s that cannot be it cannot be half-assed
7910s we need to be like 100% done be on the
7913s on it as an addition to that you said
7918s about streamers coming out with stupid
7919s ideas and the skin idea at the same time
7922s could there be a streamer skin so people
7926s can see that's a streamer which would
7928s say yep I'm engaged will come another go
7930s or something like they said about the
7932s million drones and things and if rain is
7935s listening I'll ask for you but I hate
7938s the idea cat ears and Hello Kitty skins
7942s and more pink skins for Moses so yeah
7945s sorry no no not anymore not anymore and
7956s and and that has achieved an amazing
7959s amount of consistency in the world which
7962s we now have in place and now we can
7964s build on that so I am very like happy
7969s that now we're exploring a lot of these
7971s taboos like colors and cat ears it's
7975s because it's a futuristic sci-fi world
7977s and it has elements like a left there
7979s and Colet they are more fifth element
7981s and fifth element like they are like
7983s it's a yeah exactly it's a disco
7986s populist like post humanistic culture
7990s yeah and and they would just not be
7992s green Qatari which they are now it's
7995s just what they are the green Qatari with
7998s less angles and it's just like if they
8002s broke our tears they would be connected
8003s so so there's just this allowing that
8007s freedom on top of the foundations were
8010s put in place yeah but it doesn't
8011s necessarily like take over everything
8014s but the the presence of that on
8017s of all the other consistency makes
8019s everything a little more dynamic yeah
8020s and I think we could even go we should
8022s like we should even think further I mean
8025s it 21,000 years in the future why do we
8028s have males and females yes exactly
8032s why why yeah I actually was reading
8036s interesting sailors I was reading some
8039s article that there are five distinct
8042s gender identities which trace back to
8046s like even like the Indians in America
8050s main they had this five I don't remember
8053s all five so like two seems like if two
8059s thousand years people had to invent it
8061s fine yeah
8061s then twenty one thousand years there
8063s there should be more than five yeah and
8065s we just have to yeah seems weird since
8068s words yeah let's change it yes I have a
8074s question from the stream on the topic of
8075s inspiration from Eve can either you guys
8079s think of any examples where you've heard
8081s in the gaming industry or in you know
8084s popular media more broadly where Eve has
8087s been the source of inspiration for
8088s something that someone has made like
8093s it's like I get inspired from a lot of
8096s games and colleagues elsewhere like I
8101s hear from yeah it's you know I think so
8105s I see an awesome system I ping you know
8107s I figure out if I know someone in the
8108s company ping them like hey super cool
8110s get a ping back and like oh we based it
8112s out of this system here and I'm like oh
8115s that system is based out of this system
8117s then then you kind of you know you go a
8118s big merry-go-round and end up with the
8120s same game so yeah III think the most
8123s like well the most the the example that
8128s comes to my mind is Dean Hall on Daisy
8131s Hall has been extremely vocal and clear
8135s about the fact that Daisy is inspired by
8137s EVE Online and even the games he is
8139s subsequently been dabbling and use a lot
8141s of reference material from Eve and he
8144s even came to Iceland in 2015 at the
8148s conference called slash play
8150s if you
8151s Google Dean halls let's play Iceland
8153s something something you will see a Paki
8155s bit it's probably 15 minute long and
8158s it's like a love letter to EVE Online I
8160s would encourage anyone interested about
8162s EVE Online to listen to to teen how he
8165s talks about it and and he is one of the
8168s person that in the world just that
8170s understands Eve the most the the way he
8173s speaks about it is extremely inspiring
8175s him to see that he was able to try this
8178s matzoh blow it about the elements that
8181s go into creating it just from watching
8183s it while playing it also but but he I
8186s didn't know him until after he did that
8188s talk so question for the audience about
8194s the evil non-ui
8196s it's been like a legend you can like
8199s configure it like so much but it still
8203s can be quite of overwhelming experience
8206s especially for new players have you had
8208s any ideas discussions or made plans or
8213s maybe doing a total revamp for the UI at
8216s some point it's definitely a first step
8221s in that direction and like with ether
8225s Wars and the new portal like we decided
8227s to get it out you know as soon as we
8231s could rather than kind of lock ourselves
8232s in a room for 18 months and then do a
8234s complete like RIBA we decided to roll
8238s out a single feature with this after the
8240s UI and now we've learned a lot we
8243s learned about you know we made some you
8246s know we made some mistakes and you know
8247s we've we thought some things were
8250s fantastic but they proved though how to
8253s be pure and simple silly and we also
8257s found out that like in some case we
8258s didn't push far enough and even if it's
8264s a you know visually it's a it's a it's a
8267s relatively big change but from a UX
8270s point of view and kind of interaction
8272s point of view it's actually a massive
8274s change and it is actually kind of forced
8279s us into kind of looking the Beast the UX
8281s of the user experience beast in the eye
8284s and kind of dealing with a lot of kind
8288s of quarter to 5:00 in the morning
8290s decisions from from 15-20 years ago yeah
8295s it's actually like it was made by 12
8299s engineers in three years and we had to
8302s write everything the three engine
8304s porters for my invent
8308s threating moto clustering out there's a
8311s billion database tables like it's Jesus
8314s Christ how I wish they seemed impossible
8315s I was there I still doesn't really
8317s compute and two of the programmers I had
8319s to teach the program while we were doing
8321s it like freaky Anatomy
8323s Elmer teach me how to program I can't
8325s wait anymore like and he actually single
8329s entity problem most of the UI and he
8331s learnt it while he was doing it yeah
8333s pretty impressive actually
8334s yeah and and and because it's there and
8337s it's serves a purpose it kind of works
8340s we have not put enough priority on it no
8342s but there are some epic things there
8345s like the overview which is like the the
8348s cheap way to discover what's going on
8350s around you yeah it's a one-dimensional
8352s list or or ordered by mostly distance
8356s another element that makes the game
8358s one-dimensional where it is
8360s three-dimensional yeah so I think what
8364s we're could and the team has been doing
8365s on the agency is like an example of
8368s modern UX approaches so and the more we
8371s can like tackle some of these core
8372s systems yeah and I mean it's it's all
8375s about simplifying and unifying without
8380s dumbing the game down you know it is
8382s still a you know it's it's a game that
8384s should be easy to learn but hard to
8386s master and that's that's the key and
8388s that's kind of what the that's basically
8391s kind of the the flag that the UI guys
8394s have been been kind of running on to in
8396s this effort and I've ever seen like I
8399s mean we've seen with the new agency and
8402s also activity tracker I mean people are
8405s starting to dabble into all sorts of new
8407s things they hadn't done before because
8408s you know they're just browsing around to
8411s the agency and they can read about it
8412s and like oh you know I've never had the
8414s guts of asking what this system is about
8415s and here's a little blurb and you know
8418s how I can get in now funk usually the
8422s activity tracker yes like I oh that's
8424s like feeds directly into you absolutely
8426s it's like like I use Travie to manage
8429s myself lighter note question like you
8439s showed the square of the cube of corpses
8443s like one thing that has been bothering
8445s me is that all the courses are the same
8449s one and there are some low poly model
8452s probably 10 years 12 years old by now
8456s are we going to see some more diverse
8460s corpses maybe looking like the avatar
8464s that you created meticulously at the
8467s beginning of your journey I would
8470s absolutely love if we could do that
8474s there is an issue with rendering
8477s characters in space that we've been
8479s actually been poking at that problem
8483s maybe 30 X 12 this will open up new
8486s doors for us but well if death is a
8489s serious matter
8490s yeah but these things that like you know
8495s personalize the game I'm very fond of
8499s them those like I have I have few
8501s systems that I really love like I love
8503s the decoration system the metals but I
8507s always have to Google how to find it
8509s it's like so well hidden but it's a
8511s fantastic system and one of my main
8514s characters I'm in a small co-op with a
8517s Nazi CPU and we we spent a lot of money
8521s on giving each other really stupid
8523s metals for really stupid stuff we've
8525s done a game I really love the bio I can
8529s hang out hang outside cheetah for hours
8532s just right-clicking people and reading
8534s BIOS sadly maturity of people just use
8537s them as a dumping ground for for
8540s information they need for like yeah for
8542s the time it's resistant yeah
8547s but my but the newest favorite is when
8551s you mutate a module we get the name of
8554s the person who mutated in your tune
8556s underneath it I I love that I actually
8559s like I think it's fun mutating stuff but
8563s it's almost become like more more of
8566s like my activity tracker is trying to
8568s find like you know a good set of modules
8570s made by the same person you know that
8572s purist yeah it's actually interesting
8582s with this the modules and this year is
8585s because they're the database has two
8587s representations of items yeah one is
8590s type in quantity and one is a single
8591s tone yeah are they new to the most or
8593s single terms yeah and see we could have
8597s more single just use them more single
8599s terms today so we make progress on the
8603s topics but yeah thank you so we're what
8608s you can do to help us help you Hilmar
8615s well I mean this element of the new
8617s players I think I'm on line when you
8620s look at our own new player experience
8622s yeah compared on porting into a play
8624s around new player experience yeah stay a
8627s night I think your line is alive today
8629s because of play around their corpse as
8632s well and the work that has been done on
8633s that front
8634s yeah so that is by far the biggest help
8638s absolutely yeah and also I mean like
8644s feedback feedback feedback but reports
8647s and feedback we actually it helps a lot
8651s and sadly new players are not not
8654s posting those bug reports no it's
8658s actually of course I mean we get a lot
8660s of feedback yeah but it's like we don't
8664s get a lot of feedback from players about
8667s new players yeah we have actually
8670s installed a program at CCP which is
8672s called the meet and greet where we've
8673s got an veteran if players to greet new
8676s players
8678s and give them little chips when they
8681s meet them and that has been a wealth of
8684s insights into what is actually going on
8687s going on with new players and what's
8689s struck but what new players are
8691s struggling with no and it's it's often
8694s much smaller things yeah than we think
8697s so
8698s all the things that you have been doing
8700s on this front has been massively helpful
8702s and now that we are more focusing on
8705s this area then giving us feedback and
8709s ideas on how we could better on port a
8711s half a million people per year into this
8714s universe hmm
8715s that is by far the most helpful yeah
8720s it's also been really interesting going
8722s through and learning from new player
8725s corporations how they do their
8726s onboarding because yeah I mean in some
8729s cases they weren't partying it's way
8730s better than our own pudding I like them
8733s stay they have you know able to see what
8736s they do to do it like yeah you see the
8738s axle seats and support tools new player
8741s organizations have to be able to do this
8744s it's on one hand inspiring yeah see the
8748s work that people go through and in the
8750s other hand it's like oh my god the pain
8752s were inflicting on people on both sides
8759s yeah but I think it's it's uh I love it
8767s yeah yeah but I mean it's it's it's
8775s actually been really interesting going
8777s through the nuclear experience and and
8779s and doing it again again and again and
8781s again and again and we're actually
8783s finding a lot of like quirky things that
8787s we were just kind of you know as if
8789s players we were so used to kind of those
8792s strange interactions yeah and you don't
8795s really you don't really see them until
8797s you get like new set of eyes yeah
8800s to look at them and and you know the
8802s smallest suggestions you know I often
8806s times I'm baffled that I hadn't thought
8808s of it one thing that's actually
8811s just just hit CC yesterday is we're
8816s testing out a new thing called fitting
8818s warnings where he actually gets more
8821s when you're fit you're here you get like
8823s a small white explanation mark yellow
8826s explanation mark already explanation
8827s mark if your faith is wrong or doesn't
8831s function or work and like it's one of
8834s those things that of course it makes
8836s perfect sense like how can I live
8838s without it yeah sort of a suggestion
8849s sort of thing about the new player
8850s experience you're saying how much work
8855s these new player entities put in I've
8860s been in the Academy I've run an academy
8863s and it is a lot of work it's a ton of
8865s work surely a way to actually help those
8869s guys is to signpost these new plays to
8873s them they're they're already with a
8874s structure is giving them to it which is
8882s a way to to create a breadcrumb trail
8886s into that we have built in pyres about
8896s being scared of favoriting any
8899s corporation over another yeah and while
8902s that's good on the veteran site that we
8905s try to be as unbiased as can be we need
8909s to get out of that bias when it comes to
8911s new player organizations even though I
8915s mean you you you could like if you start
8920s to work with more concretely with some
8922s of them okay maybe you're not working as
8924s much with all of them and all those
8926s things but we just have to go through
8930s and live through those mistakes rather
8932s than have the fear of like we can't show
8933s favoritism hmm and I just think we need
8936s to well identify it's not that we need
8939s to identify you know who they are and
8940s just work much closer with them without
8943s having this fear
8944s like we're showing some favoritism for
8946s that the the it's a big huge topic it's
8949s a big huge strategic initiative an
8951s extreme amount of hard work has been
8954s done by the player community we need to
8955s embrace that and just get out of this
8957s fear about like rezoning favoritism mmm
8959s we just put the specific ones in the
8963s fleet finder and they're just here and
8965s they are there allocated because we have
8967s decades of data to show people are doing
8969s awesome work oh so I've mentioned this
8972s to to des before other events you did a
8976s thing with twitch recently well say
8979s recently in the last year where
8981s streamers could come and try Eve and way
8986s of deal they had with twitch they had I
8989s think that was an invaluable resource to
8991s see how new players physically react
8993s because you can see these streamers on
8995s screen playing the game and instead of
8998s think of you guys playing it a hundred
9000s times singing why they're not getting
9001s this actually visually seeing someone
9005s struggle I think be a valuable resource
9009s is that would there be plans to do that
9011s again
9012s absolutely like I mean we are doing user
9015s testing in-house now and and it is
9018s actually it is actually great content I
9021s mean it's yeah sometimes painful twats
9023s yeah yeah very interesting you mention
9026s it
9026s we didn't do it for that purpose but but
9029s to do like I public hopefully has the
9034s public use of testing hopefully use it
9036s yeah and Emily P I can just see like
9038s yeah if you came to Center in a meeting
9040s room get our streamer to go and play the
9042s game and just go through the narration
9044s of it happening that would be a gruesome
9045s experiment it'll be a painful experience
9048s a great idea extreme the designers then
9051s as well on the form of guiding players
9063s to the new player friendly corporations
9067s I must say that when I recently real old
9071s in in Eve and started a brand new
9073s character no ties it took them less than
9077s a day
9078s to actually write me an email to tell
9080s them like hi we are pandemic horde in
9084s this case we're pandemic heart and this
9086s is who we are and blahdy blahdy blah I
9088s mean they they tend to find new players
9092s pretty quickly it's my experience yes I
9095s I think that's true to some extent but
9100s there is this reputation of EVE Online
9102s that everyone in EVE Online is out to
9104s scam you yeah so there are a lot of
9107s people I mean in this case you know what
9109s containment court is and you become okay
9111s maybe I'll throw that out okay or no but
9114s if you're a genuine new player you won't
9118s know the difference between that and
9120s that and just the anxiety about like
9123s okay I've heard that the community is
9125s out to get you which is not true but it
9128s is a certain impression we like I said
9132s we need to get out of her fear of
9134s favoritism and aspires and we just need
9137s to walk into this domain of a being just
9140s much more deliberate on this front yeah
9142s and just do that and deal with the
9144s consequences rather than sort of tiptoe
9147s around the problem of like no become to
9149s that we can't show favoritism and here
9151s we are after 16 years with your people
9153s doing like crazy model work to save the
9155s game and like it's also up it's not also
9159s not kind of showing you you good
9163s corporations to start with it's not and
9166s like you know hey these these are good
9168s started corporations like it's not it's
9172s it's also about breaking this like
9175s barrier of you know taking the social
9178s step it is a very difficult step yeah
9180s it's in like kind of you know saying
9183s hello and local for the first time is
9184s it's a it's a difficult step and joining
9187s a corporation it's like you know you you
9190s you create like a must enough of you
9192s know worries and no waste expectations
9196s kind of where they laugh at me laugh at
9200s me yeah I rolled a new character of a
9209s few years back and I mean
9211s so trying to bring some you guys in but
9213s being in a kind of a high skill point
9216s high kind of play style of game it's
9221s really hard to bring noobs in and there
9224s comes the skill point gap first you ask
9227s him to do something and oh I can do that
9229s in two months so and and currently like
9232s the skill injectors they help you make
9234s alts but new guys don't have the money
9237s unless they buy the tons of Plex they
9239s don't have the money to get that cap so
9242s I find these new skill point things even
9244s tedious very functional in a way but is
9247s there any any other ways to kind of
9249s close him in a regular and like a real
9251s new player to get that real capital of
9254s skill points a little bit faster yeah so
9257s I mean skill injectors were massively
9261s good in at least in after dr. can't the
9265s impression that there is no way to catch
9267s up even okay I think buying all the
9270s skills is something like thirty thousand
9272s dollars but it's obviously a lot of
9275s money and nobody does that
9276s well somebody has but not everyone does
9280s is that then at least you have a way out
9283s of the impression that there is no way
9284s to catch up because before there was
9286s just impossible to catch up it was just
9288s a physical unreality there's no way of
9291s doing it but but you are saying about
9294s like particular play styles and bringing
9296s in people and things like that there
9299s might be ways of like giving you a fixed
9303s moment to try something out for our time
9306s box something like that in some context
9310s somewhere in the world not everywhere
9312s like there are ways to do it without
9315s like breaking the value of skill points
9317s that people have accumulated over time
9319s or creating something where we're we're
9323s noob characters all of a certain are
9325s tipping the scales and fleet fights yeah
9328s but we've also been we'll also been
9330s experimenting with things like you know
9334s double training weekend you know kind of
9336s gaining skill problems from through
9338s action the latest one was of course
9340s skills for kills where you got a small
9343s number of
9345s points for the first kill you made it
9347s stay so it's kind of incentivizing
9349s people to play and and gaining skill and
9352s I mean we are we are doing tests like
9355s that that with kind of you know early
9358s retention and and the early your early
9360s life we're doing those tests with that
9362s in mind and there could be an
9364s interesting Avenue there where you
9366s basically you can accelerate your
9368s training up to a certain point as a new
9371s player by by being active and you know
9373s the game
9375s it actually was before we released the
9378s game then we had the taskmaster inspired
9381s by optimal line like we were all playing
9383s mostly my line it was command line
9384s there's a massive inspiration for Eve
9386s and the the the gaining progression
9390s through doing was very much a feature of
9392s him online and it's actually mark
9395s growing hitting at all with your sport
9397s he's actually the inspiration of the
9399s offline skill training system of Eve
9401s because we all left on macros running
9403s came the day after and you have
9405s accumulated progression over the night
9407s such a good feeling then was like okay
9409s let's make a system that does that yeah
9411s and it's actually the eve skill system
9415s could be better to capture all of that
9417s feeling because sometimes your macro
9419s broke so sometimes it didn't work and it
9421s didn't have the skill points so if there
9423s was variability and how many skill
9424s points you would accumulate it would
9426s more capture the feeling but in any case
9428s the activity of doing things giving you
9430s skill points we had programmed that
9432s whole thing into the game you had to
9433s take it out because the database
9437s couldn't handle the load of doing it so
9439s it is very much has been a part of the
9442s thinking to make progression more an
9444s active process it won't fix the issue
9447s you're talking about which is just like
9448s you want to take people to here and
9450s they're here but something like a pine
9452s box in limited on a certain place might
9454s be a way to do that but yeah I mean
9458s these are all the elements we have to
9459s take into the new player experience
9461s challenges and some of those require
9464s solutions which are out of our comfort
9466s zone definitely go to the next topic
9471s yeah
9473s identity and eve online yeah who are you
9478s an EVE Online is it
9481s it's your Eve identity more true than
9483s your real identity I'm more interested
9486s in like the next picture we have yeah I
9504s I think a lot of this is about what
9506s we've been talking about like
9507s variability of shape skins
9508s yeah the ability to wear your colors in
9512s terms of who what your allegiance is I
9515s think we are varying way too much the
9517s actual character yeah the corpse is not
9519s your character yeah you don't really see
9522s the character that much in the
9524s experience you don't have to go full on
9528s like ambulation in bars in space
9530s stations yeah we have the characters we
9532s could do more with them and it's also I
9534s think it's there's also something in
9535s this notion of like I'm not shooting a
9539s not suiting a character I'm shooting
9541s Hilmer yeah there's something there we
9543s can yeah we should definitely push
9545s further and this make it more personal
9548s make it more you know I am I am I'm
9552s killing you not the that you're
9555s flying
9555s yes it's yeah III think and and what
9561s we're talking about gender identity
9562s before yeah like the Indians had five
9565s and we have two twenty one thousand
9568s years there must be more mm-hmm I I
9571s think there's a lot of stuff like that
9572s where we're not being sci-fi enough no
9576s and I think there is a there's a I think
9581s there is so many great potentials as we
9584s can push yeah things in and I think and
9589s you know we kind of we kind of laugh
9591s over the Katya question but I mean it's
9593s a question we get every event absolutely
9594s and I know totally have copiers look at
9598s left they would have car tears yeah and
9599s they would have something beyond car
9601s tears I don't know what it is but we
9604s should have it yeah who tells my future
9606s yeah future animal future animal yeah
9610s yeah yeah then we do an April Fool's
9614s joke with like mechanical cat ears at
9616s some point yes I've seen a concert I
9618s think I think at least I had something
9620s it's like that
9621s I want that it looks super cool yeah
9634s bunty's identity bounties it was cool
9643s when we did it in Revelation and that
9644s was a very cool expansion trailer idea
9647s although a lot of it it is just not it
9652s is not having the intended consequences
9653s no and it's a very clear sci-fi trope of
9660s being upon the other and it's a it's a
9664s it's a misma fantasy that you can't
9669s really at least not through the system
9670s be above the hunter in a real way and
9673s Eve and and having that would have
9676s notoriety would have way to form some
9680s regulation of some behavior in the world
9683s so it is not an easy thing to solve no
9688s it's not I I remember when I saw the
9689s bounty system it looked like I I thought
9692s it would work yeah but it's not working
9694s and yeah I mean it's it's one of those
9697s things that sounds well on paper yeah
9699s but then in reality it is kind of yeah
9702s just didn't hate it but but it's a lot
9704s like a lot of identity and even when
9706s goes into what your profession is yeah
9708s and and the fact that okay you can be a
9711s space trucker or you can be a miner but
9714s you can't at least not through the
9716s design of the game be a bounty hunter
9718s and it's a very like clear identity
9721s expectation because so many sci-fi
9723s movies are so much about that yeah I
9725s mean later on there's a lot of the
9728s inspiration and he's concretely a Ponte
9730s hunter all of I mean everyone loves for
9733s hat a pop of fact and puzzle path when
9735s he was you know developed there was
9737s supposed to be like a secondary shallow
9739s character
9740s yeah it's possible character yeah yeah
9745s what do we have next part where they're
9748s asking us to take more breaks take more
9750s breaks yeah I had this beautiful pink
9752s picture yeah allowing a player to change
9762s their race without changing their name
9764s for example it might happen you started
9765s a character 10 years ago when you
9767s returned to the game you don't really
9768s identify with that character very much
9769s anymore yes this is a very interesting
9773s question and this is actually a
9774s conversation we've been having a lot
9777s both unlike changing gender changing
9781s race mixing race mixing races that's
9785s another another thing we've been talking
9787s a lot about mixing genders yeah it's
9790s hard to mix gender because then you're
9791s mixing body socks which is kind of
9794s attack a heart attack
9795s terms okay you're mixing like 3d models
9798s but but because we're we're manipulating
9801s a model with yeah with the races yes but
9805s it's uh it's definitely uh yeah I mean I
9809s think it's kind it's one of those things
9811s that have you know the world has changed
9814s so much in the last 20 years 16 20 years
9816s and this is like one of the things that
9819s I mean we probably couldn't have
9822s foreseen it's actually like unless I saw
9826s this new story I don't know from last
9828s year when it was so that there was a
9830s Chinese couple they had the baby and the
9833s baby was not very pretty but both of
9837s them are very pretty but that is because
9839s they have had so much plastic surgery
9841s surgery done to that the the baby was a
9845s product of the rocks of genetics but
9847s they themselves like beauty treatments
9850s are such a huge thing in China and Korea
9852s well it's mostly in Korea Kenny's going
9854s to Korea to get beauty treatments and
9855s they're so good at it that they didn't
9858s know but it's like if people are doing
9861s this today
9862s mhm and in a way changing race and
9866s changing boy types of whatever than like
9868s 21 thousand years from now you would be
9870s changing body types and whatever just
9872s does it change your socks yeah
9873s so like to be true to the fact that he
9876s of the world then then this should just
9879s be allowed yeah this would be way more
9881s fluidity yeah so short break and then
9887s last couple of topics yes the plan
9892s alright and we are back three hours 42
9896s minutes 33 seconds we have coffee we got
9899s coffee yeah who has a big improvement a
9902s huge improvement
9903s yeah I can go for a notes right now yeah
9905s definitely should we we only have two
9907s topics left to cover okay but we can
9909s talk about these topics we can indeed so
9913s the second to last topic for today is
9916s community and I actually want to take
9919s this now we've talked a lot about
9923s community here today and you know the
9926s fantastically players that make the game
9928s and the game you know wouldn't be much
9930s without the community and it's actually
9934s been a really this has been an
9935s interesting year with with not doing fan
9937s fest and Iceland kind of moving to
9939s moving to the world tour and it's been
9942s really interesting kind of getting
9946s closer to players through that because
9948s kind of I mean coming twice in this epic
9951s and fantastic and you know amazing event
9953s but actually going going to the players
9959s you know it kind of lowers the burden of
9961s having to you know pack your bags and
9963s flight to Iceland yeah it's been very
9968s kind of different I have to say I
9971s remember first when you made Fun Fest we
9974s made Fun Fest kind of like we were in my
9977s office with Nathan and Ally mm-hmm and
9980s we were talking about some outbreak on
9984s the forums yeah and it was something oh
9987s how we're gonna interface with this the
9989s current fluid to sewer problem that was
9992s going on don't even remember what and I
9994s said something like I wish we could just
9997s invite them over and then like when you
10000s have like methanol in the room yes let's
10002s do that
10003s yeah let's do it when every wave says
10006s it's
10007s with alia Alia that and then we've got
10010s people over two thousand four people
10012s came and it was extremely more
10015s productive than talking to people on
10017s forum yeah obviously we have the CSM we
10020s have all these mechanisms but farm fest
10024s has now become such an institution and
10026s there's a particular type of a player
10028s that comes to Iceland for fan fest and
10030s there's a particular mode there's a
10032s particular context that the feedback
10035s starts to be uni-dimensional CSM also
10039s becomes a function of its the way it is
10043s populated like it is a democratic
10046s process people come in there with
10048s certain agendas and it becomes a certain
10052s institution limits feedback in a way I
10055s found it very refreshing now going
10057s around the world yeah on the world tour
10060s coming here to Finland where there's a
10064s particular type of focus energy which is
10067s very different and when I was in
10069s Australia absolutely
10070s I was actually super inspired but going
10072s to Australia and I learned many things
10074s about Eve and about our players by being
10077s there one thing in particular I learnt
10080s in Australia was it came out from many
10083s uncle's is that Australia so sparsely
10087s populated yeah the people are very
10089s disconnected in Australia so there were
10092s a lot of people in rural Australia
10093s playing in line to connect with other
10095s people and I thought even line was more
10098s an urban thing I I thought our players
10100s were more in series yeah yeah then then
10103s in rural areas and I actually took a
10106s look at it and it's just not the case
10109s yeah like even line is not as much of a
10111s city game as you think
10113s I took a look at how many people we have
10115s in London for example not a lot of
10118s people in London there's a lot of people
10119s in the UK yeah it's just not as much in
10121s London as I thought they were yeah and
10124s and that was a new dimension then it was
10127s like I don't know talking to Australian
10131s players in particular which are I don't
10132s know there's some special specimen of
10135s hardcore players in Australia I think I
10139s think Australia is
10141s the hard core concept to begin like the
10143s spiders the snakes there whatever
10146s crocodiles and sharks and like and a mad
10149s son - yeah exactly it's a country kind
10153s of like Iceland out to get you yeah but
10156s it has just more tools like we don't
10159s have half of this in Iceland yeah no no
10160s so as a result they're rather hardcore
10163s and I remember like I don't know we've
10166s been dealing with this cloaca camping
10167s thing for like ever like our customer
10170s support channels are full of this cloaca
10172s camping thing and I'm like why is this a
10176s problem did it don't understand the
10179s logic of the problem because why are
10182s people so irritated by what seeing a
10184s cartoon in your chart which is what it
10189s was mainly hmm but when I understand the
10192s psychological extortion and pain it
10194s causes by feeling it from talking to
10196s this seriously hardcore people like why
10198s are you so afraid than somebody in your
10200s chart and it wasn't until I understood
10203s it's the agency problem of like you can
10205s involve so much emotional pain without
10207s having any recourse back and I
10210s understood this logically but like
10213s feeling the the visceral paying above
10217s this was like okay it's not just a fake
10220s problem it's an actual problem yeah and
10222s I think some of that I mean III for all
10226s my engagement to be players over decades
10228s I was not able to really get it until I
10232s was there in Australia mmm with all the
10234s spiders and snakes and hardcore players
10235s to my successor yes so i i've certainly
10240s and like here in finland it's a it's a
10242s different way to sometimes gaffed often
10245s the same feedback but in a context and
10247s with emotion that certainly has driven
10250s me to more action yeah yeah no
10252s definitely it's definitely you know it's
10255s been a lot of work and you know creating
10258s keynotes every few weeks is it's not the
10262s really sustainable business my work
10266s force has kicked me why are you going to
10269s Finland you've been travelling like God
10271s knows what why are you going to be not
10272s well to to forest at home no there's no
10275s the question why why yeah but what I
10285s actually what I really enjoyed is kind
10291s of you know giving all these talks and
10294s meeting all these people like just you
10298s know being so close to our community and
10300s feeling kind of the the really
10302s difference between like there's like a
10303s there's a certain thief in in Holland
10306s and kind of you know the the banner
10307s loops and and didn't Germany it's like
10309s there's a different feel to a if player
10311s there and they're kind of you know
10313s worries are slightly different than like
10315s when you go to Vegas and that's way more
10317s rowdy and like you know it's it's
10320s standing on stasis in Vegas it's a
10322s little bit like a cage fight yeah your
10324s basic like you know you're just like dot
10326s seeing questions right and left and you
10328s know yeah and then you go to Finland and
10331s there you can just like talk for hours
10333s and people like take everything in and
10335s unless probably and it's been it's yeah
10338s it's been it's bit like I said a lot of
10340s hard work and it's it's been very
10342s different and different in a good way
10344s but I actually look forward now coming
10347s out of all that and like having some
10348s epic fan fest in a character oh it is on
10355s after all this yeah and actually fan
10358s fest in Reykjavik it's also super
10360s important for us yeah such a great
10363s moment to kind of you know you're kind
10366s of been staring at the same problem for
10369s months and you know you that problem
10372s kind of consumes all your waking hours
10374s and just getting like players out
10377s Reykjavik and and just pulling you out
10382s of that pits and and allow you to kind
10383s of see the amazement mm-hmm amazing
10386s thing that we've created yeah it's
10388s really I mean it's super energizing for
10391s your development yeah and but it's also
10394s been great I mean we've been sending a
10396s lot of developers all over the world to
10397s serve a lot of people have seen yeah I
10401s know I guess my takeaway out of some of
10403s this is that often we talked with about
10405s the eve community like it is it's
10409s consistent one thing you know and of
10413s course you know it's not like that
10415s intellectually you know it just like you
10418s know like I don't know the European
10421s Union is not a consistent thing there's
10424s like Italian Swedes are not very
10428s consistent know each other and you know
10433s this but when you experience it through
10434s getting these different slices of like
10437s how different the conversation is in its
10438s place
10439s yeah I like it gave me a bit of sort of
10443s thought about like okay are we caring to
10446s unit dimensional inputs into yeah into
10451s our process because when you assume a
10453s level down it starts to be very
10454s different yeah and it kind of feeds into
10456s this topic we're talking about earlier
10457s where you know you don't look at even
10459s line as a house but you look at even
10461s line as a city yeah there is kind of you
10463s know these multiple pockets of of
10466s different cultures that come together
10468s and create you know this this dynamic
10471s place that's that new happiness yeah but
10474s it is like you know my house is way
10476s different from your house yeah and you
10478s know what happens in the shadows here is
10480s something you know yeah you will never
10482s know about I think we have as a company
10485s fallen victim a little bit to hear is
10487s the organized list by priorities yeah
10489s from the community and there is just no
10493s there is no such list no like when I
10495s talk to players in Australia and I talk
10497s to players in Finland it is very
10501s different conversations yeah and and
10503s they're much deeper their most more
10505s specific and detailed in their
10507s individual topics so yeah I I've been
10513s inspired by kind of going almost like a
10516s level deeper yeah and it's also because
10519s the game is so dynamic and the community
10522s is so dynamic and it's so fluid its
10524s ever-changing yeah so actually sitting
10526s down and meeting people and talking like
10528s I mean the it's amazing kind of you know
10532s the biggest problem in the world three
10533s months ago is is a husband no it's also
10538s I found it interesting because when
10541s you're talking first in Iceland you're
10542s Iceland you live in Iceland people
10544s coming to you yeah but in the world tour
10546s we're going to them no it's very
10548s different
10549s oh yeah like even just the the context
10552s of being there yeah like it's more full
10554s immersion I found yeah and certainly it
10558s was full immersion here last night but
10559s we're in the sauna I would never do that
10563s in Iceland I I like yes I go to sleep
10565s yeah I can confirm that this sound
10567s actually can house 10 people yes we push
10571s the limit see we take questions on this
10576s or question from the stream is do you
10582s guys know when the even London tickets
10584s will be going on sale next week from the
10588s back of the room cool you guys so you've
10596s had your first taste of going out there
10599s and meeting players all over the world
10602s is it something that personally
10605s ssp helm or is it something that you're
10609s going to keep on doing now now that
10611s you've got your first taste so I've come
10617s to wake a certain event all over the
10619s world to have gone there before but now
10621s when we're doing them in such diverse
10623s places often this was kind of like well
10627s I've never gone to Australia and and and
10630s going to a place like Australia you're
10634s so much out of your element and it's
10636s sort of in your feeling being there it's
10639s like being on another planet it's so
10641s isolated and there's just experiencing
10645s discussions about them online in such a
10647s different place and context inspires you
10649s differently
10650s mmm than before and it's just amplified
10654s when you're doing it in Australia in
10656s Finland I need to go to Russia I've done
10660s it in China I've done it a lot in
10662s America because often we do these things
10665s around trade shows
10666s I obviously travel a lot so I meet a lot
10669s of Eve players there was just something
10670s about this different concentration and I
10673s think I mean to request anyone go to
10675s more yes absolute
10676s clip but what are we then gonna do with
10678s this world tour concept meets having a
10680s fun fest in Iceland yeah
10681s because doing both like we will just be
10684s on the road for yeah yeah and my wife is
10688s not watching this try to make sense on
10695s the other end but and I and we will do
10698s some post mortem of all of this or
10700s retrospective once we just finished all
10702s the world tour what do we then to for
10704s next year or certainly put down gonna
10705s have fun fest it's gonna be in April so
10709s we will have to do some big summit
10710s meeting of what what to be them to going
10713s forward based on alert but definitely I
10715s would be going more having these kind of
10717s deep dives into into segments of the
10720s community whether it's by country or by
10722s play style or by some other
10725s demographical variables but it's also
10730s been because you know this this what you
10734s know new keynote every few weeks it's
10737s also kind of pushed us in different
10738s directions like really looking at like
10740s hey what is our message like how do we
10744s communicate how do we talk at these
10746s events like this format here is a brand
10749s new format we haven't tried before
10750s anyway I'm actually enjoying it a lot
10752s even if it's like getting close to four
10755s hours of streaming and you can see like
10757s the stream theme being like shaking
10760s because it helps the camera for still
10762s for so long thank you yeah and and it's
10765s even to the point because one of the
10767s things we decided not to do it will tour
10769s and we have now decided just to do way
10770s less off is this antlers presentation of
10773s road maps because when you have five a
10775s band you cannot do the same road map
10777s five times it just doesn't work and we
10780s have just learned from the experience of
10782s of testing various things on these road
10784s maps they just don't work very well and
10786s it's not just for us they don't work
10787s well for any company all companies are
10790s mostly stopped talking about their
10792s future developments they talk about what
10794s they're doing and then they announce
10795s what they're doing and then it comes out
10797s next week there used to be when we were
10799s starting in online journey this idea of
10802s talking about future development of
10804s products worse was almost like a design
10807s pattern you could follow everyone has
10809s stopped
10809s because what it puts you into it puts
10812s you into caring more about the future
10813s than the pleasure yeah and this has made
10816s CCP obsessing about our development
10819s roadmaps that has caused the stagnation
10823s issue we're dealing with in the actual
10825s game because our eyes are always about
10828s like what are we developing and if I
10830s look at the track record of some of her
10832s development recently we often spend
10834s enormous amount of time doing new things
10836s yeah we release them to the game I look
10839s at the metrics it just didn't make any
10841s difference then we do something like
10843s lockup lockout which is not a lot of
10846s work in the sense of road maps but it
10849s has massive impact and we can debate
10851s whether they're good or bad but at least
10853s we are having an impact on the situation
10855s so by forcing us into okay what do we
10858s talk at about events if we're not
10860s talking about road maps in fact we have
10863s been talking about is data inside
10865s studies about the world yeah getting
10869s dark silo going by a story for sure I
10872s mean we have we have 16 years of content
10875s and a lot of it is I mean doing kind of
10879s the archaeological you know studies of
10882s just going through and you know looking
10884s at old screenshots an old design
10885s documents I mean it's it's actually been
10888s really really good and healthy because
10891s you know you you start to kind of give
10893s people context to why we're here and how
10895s we got here and and even the Katia psy
10898s in Amsterdam yeah like we were well
10901s maybe we would have done it but that
10903s then gives space for us to pay a lot
10906s more attention about what rock silicon
10907s in the work going on in the world by
10910s elevating that into these platforms
10913s because it's super interesting and
10915s valuable stuff yeah and sometimes we
10917s just to distract it about like okay what
10920s is our road map how is it tracking
10922s always talking about that when most of
10924s the energy and value of the game is in
10927s the elements which are actually
10928s happening on TQ every every minute and
10930s every day yeah and it's also it has
10933s allowed us to - it has allowed us to
10936s allow them now inspire the future yeah
10939s what are the issues going on right now
10941s and
10942s allow them to prioritize for the future
10945s rather than like going on States and and
10947s you know promising a space elevator yeah
10951s exactly at some point it starts to
10954s become its own thing because we have fun
10957s tests and because we have an event now
10958s we have to decide some content in a
10960s development sense to put on the states
10962s and often that is based on a moment in
10966s time that becomes a three-year roadmap
10968s that then becomes invalid a year later
10970s because everything around the game are
10972s seems changed or inside it yeah so I
10973s actually like the energy which we're now
10976s in after all this getting more precise
10978s feedback in different context is talking
10982s more about what's going on and Eve what
10984s players have been doing the history and
10986s all the things which are going on and
10988s less about this in the next expansion
10991s this this this this is coming and then
10993s let me just put you in the place of
10994s aiding for six months and all we are
10996s only half of it cops yeah would you say
10999s that um a management level which both a
11004s few are members of that you are
11007s currently working more agile as the term
11010s is in in software development as you
11012s both know then then what you used to be
11020s kind of panic mode that you're under
11023s delivering because we have to go up
11025s everything back we had you know we had
11026s made big promises and now we have to
11028s figure out how to kind of work around
11029s the big promise
11030s so that's East a lot of things in
11033s development but of course like any
11035s change these changes are quite hard and
11038s they take time to kind of settle in
11039s there is a lot of like you know there is
11042s still a lot of push to to talk too much
11048s about some things I mean I definitely
11050s think that some features should be
11051s talked about and we should announce them
11053s you know before and and you know we
11058s should put them on test servers for you
11060s know longer periods of time but there
11064s are also features that should just
11067s happen you know we shouldn't it's not
11069s because in many ways you know we're just
11073s the caretakers of EVE Online EVE Online
11074s is its own beast and has its own life in
11079s a way and just like how players are
11082s writing their own stories the game
11084s itself is also writing its own story
11087s yeah and and and and it's also like
11092s there is even a little more going on
11094s than just being more attention like it's
11098s only a year ago where where we changed
11101s the management of EVE Online completely
11103s like the there could have been a
11105s creative director now for just over a
11106s year
11107s so everything has been in p4 just over a
11109s year a dome has gone a lot more involved
11113s from the marketing side I have myself a
11115s gotten a lot more involved which I I
11117s mean we kind of just needed you because
11118s we all started our job exactly days
11120s before job so we have like a very
11125s different management team running it now
11127s than we had before
11128s and that difference doesn't manifest
11131s immediately because you you have to
11134s survey the landscape I myself I spent a
11138s lot of time last year playing in a line
11140s to get kind of current field data from
11144s the game and especially the early game
11146s because my experience is from if pasts
11149s are just like very fast exactly they're
11153s they're not they Eve we have today I was
11156s quite inspired by how crappy the early
11159s experience is in a way of like oh my god
11161s there are so many good bits here but if
11163s we could just orchestrate them in a way
11166s when I know how to consume them because
11169s I know they're there and by going
11171s through it it's like this actually could
11174s be so much it could be so good we have
11176s so much many good bits so we have now
11180s spent I don't know maybe the first six
11181s months were just kind of getting on top
11183s of the situation but now we are
11186s restructuring everything around here
11188s changing the process by changing the
11189s structure of the team changing the
11191s attitude in offices changing offices
11194s changing tack places it is just like I
11197s don't know it's like a the game is going
11200s through some car facism it's like it's
11204s like it's been in a cocoon and now it's
11206s breaking out then it's like is it the
11207s butterfly or
11208s yeah like I don't know I went to
11210s Australia they're pretty scary but like
11212s I mean it's pretty scary for I mean it
11214s it is a scary process but we're
11217s definitely starting to see kind of the
11219s benefits of this change and it's amazing
11222s to like all of sudden you start to see
11225s you know the passion that you know the
11227s the incredible passion our developers
11229s have and like you know the passion
11231s they've poured into a lot of amazing
11234s products and features they've made and
11236s now they're starting to see kind of the
11238s beauty of you know the things that we're
11240s doing now and and kind of a passion and
11243s yeah that's actually if you tie into
11245s next one it actually cause well I looked
11247s into this like when we are CCP we are
11253s developers yeah and we're presenting
11255s roadmaps and feature sets and design
11257s problems and and and and things and
11260s things it's like we're talking about
11262s even line like a toy like it's a it's a
11265s toy and it has these things and here's
11268s 2.0 version of the toy and even line is
11271s much bigger than that it is like it's a
11275s it's a phenomenon we were asking earlier
11277s about like people being inspired by Eve
11279s and I mentioned Dean Hall and all that
11280s like Emmaline has materially changed the
11283s context of computer games like it just
11286s has it's not because I it's in my own
11289s personal interest to say that it just
11291s has like the world would be a worse
11294s place if there weren't for human life I
11296s like just deeply genuinely believe that
11298s and it's not just my opinion I hear it
11299s everywhere and it's almost like a
11300s documented fact by now and then when
11303s we're talking about it as developers as
11305s a toy we're gonna have this thing we're
11307s gonna fix this it's like we need some
11309s more inspired way of having even line
11313s sort of come out of its past into its
11315s presence of stuff to kind of evolve
11317s itself on its own almost and then are
11320s sort of going beyond the fourth wall and
11322s stop talking about it as a toy and
11325s allowing the world more to evolve as a
11328s world with you guys in it where we our
11332s agency is a little bit like when we did
11333s with up well yeah like off 12 was making
11336s their Citadel's and creating the
11338s firmware like those were cool things
11341s those were like
11342s we should be doing and and what we're
11345s doing now like with the Drifters and the
11347s blackout and these things it's a world
11350s some things in it just happen because
11354s like in our world like some things are
11356s controlled by I don't know God the
11358s government your employer whatever and
11362s and the highest agency like that God
11366s doesn't release pots notes about like
11369s here that I have some god complex or
11375s maybe I do yeah exactly it's spite
11378s there's no fly exactly like oh there's
11385s spiders cannabis Christ so like there
11394s are aspects of the world that should
11395s move in that domain and they're just out
11397s of control we don't know them Eva's not
11400s equipped to do it right now fully it has
11403s elements which move out of our control
11405s I want to see things happening a NEMA
11407s line where I go to partners like what
11409s the happened yeah and you say I
11411s have no idea yeah and we have it okay
11414s yeah and we have those elements starting
11417s to creeper
11418s yes here and there where things happen
11421s that we have no control over yeah and it
11423s is a really it's a beautiful
11425s conversation with developers when your
11427s basis when you tell them like let's just
11429s give the game control it's a it's a
11432s super scary thing because you know
11433s you've been in control for 15 years and
11435s all of a sudden it's like kind of taking
11438s its own life and you know just running
11440s with it and you just have to play
11442s catch-up in a way yeah and we shouldn't
11444s be afraid of it no we used to be we used
11447s to be very we used to be a bit of
11449s control freaks yeah now it's more kind
11451s of letting it go
11452s yeah where will it go where will it go
11455s yeah I think three hours 50 minutes 30
11463s seconds I think we're hitting our yeah
11466s hitting our mark anything or mark yeah
11469s we did the marathon under four hours we
11471s did a marathon for hours isn't that
11472s something
11474s oh wait there's more do like a couple of
11478s questions and then okay as you were
11488s talking about the stuff that just
11491s randomly happens in EVE Online and the
11494s emerging emergent of that behavior do
11499s you have some examples for us like one
11503s of those things that basically
11505s Hilmar went into your office and goes
11507s like do what happened and you in MPC is
11511s fighting a PC as he sees it fighting MPC
11513s is a favorite story by nowhere we plot
11519s rate is attacked and I'm not mining
11521s fleet and then drifter showed up and
11523s annihilated all of them no one wanted
11526s that fight not the servers CCP Explorer
11537s came and his face was not happy I mean
11546s drifters in waiting in waiting space I
11549s mean that's that was not fully in
11551s control there were some interesting
11554s behaviors there that and they they they
11557s do on their own almost that they
11559s invested this is I I don't know how much
11562s control was exactly either no and I mean
11566s taxes going off because of you know
11570s strange money supply - yeah I mean it's
11573s running out of money
11574s Kronk was running out of money I mean
11576s it's there is a there is a lot of things
11578s that yeah so right itself it there are
11583s examples of this most of even lines
11589s serendipity has been in the social
11591s domain like most of elements where we
11595s say like what the is to two players
11597s have done something amazing with him
11599s online
11599s and of course that's amazing amazing is
11602s the reason why the game is here and and
11603s and we're certainly not taking that away
11607s but or at all but the birth itself needs
11612s to inspire everyone also yeah and we
11615s have just too much relied on that aspect
11618s which makes so it makes us a little kind
11620s of I would say Macy but it's not our
11623s best thinking goes into that domain
11626s because we're investing tools for our
11628s love people's social organization at
11630s scale and we've invested a lot of tools
11632s to do that
11633s mm-hmm and now if we go a little bit
11636s more make the world a little more
11637s capable to inspire all of us then okay
11641s we're seeing some examples which we have
11642s to build on yeah but I hope we see a lot
11645s more like that where it's not only
11648s players but it's also eve itself yeah
11650s which is surprising merciful you has one
11655s last question and this is from the
11657s stream and I'll just like backtrack to
11658s the previous topic that you're talking
11661s on are there any countries left on your
11663s bucket list where you guys would like to
11665s host a fan fest on the road oh yeah I I
11670s lived in New Zealand for a year and I I
11675s i love new zealand I wanted to fan fest
11678s in New Zealand it's really far away and
11681s it would be a very difficult
11683s conversation with my wife and my
11684s children that I have to leave for to the
11686s other side of the world but I love to do
11691s yeah I would just love to go to Russia I
11695s never been to Russia Russian if players
11698s are an extremely particular type of
11703s input into the game very important I
11705s hear from everyone that's gone there to
11707s an eve meeting in Russia that it's
11709s amazing yeah and III really want to go
11712s there so it's not like a to put the
11715s Walter it's just for me to go there I
11716s really want to go there so I need to do
11719s something about that yeah I mean there
11720s and there also like every time you go to
11722s an event you meet players from new
11724s countries that you want to visit and
11725s you're so amazed like couple years ago I
11727s met three guys from Puerto Rico amazing
11731s guys end up hanging out a lot with them
11733s and just seeing their kind of view on
11735s the game was was super inspiring and
11739s yeah exactly I met two guys we were
11744s different they were from Iran yeah yeah
11747s they were Quakers yeah took us from me
11749s Iran and like learning about like
11752s playing in a line in the Rye that was
11754s like I don't know helping a funny about
11756s in Iran but maybe maybe we should do
11758s that yeah they were here in Midland in
11760s the sound yeah like maybe we should just
11762s go to Iran and have a fun event there
11765s that would be insane there will be like
11768s the craziest thing ever
11769s yeah yeah how do we get there how do we
11773s get there yeah I don't know we're i
11774s slanty yeah like we're friends with
11776s everyone hello I am from Iceland I come
11780s because we have farms yeah we were in
11783s Finland let me ask the question in a
11786s sound line in Finland yeah okay Russia
11789s and Iran yeah I like it so yeah I think
11795s we're getting to a good yeah to kind of
11798s wrap things up mm-hmm
11801s we have something we have something
11802s happening for Laurie our wonderful host
11805s yeah
11807s CTV Caucasus has there is no fun event
11814s without the mandatory adrenaline so we
11819s thought it was fitting to give you some
11824s beautiful Icelandic licorice that we
11827s both share the love for yeah I know it's
11829s not salmiakki perfect but and then some
11833s nice Icelandic chocolates yeah thanks
11837s for hosting us it's been really good
11840s we're not going anywhere we're actually
11842s gonna change the stream into a somewhat
11845s of a slow TV I guess we've kind of been
11847s doing slow TV now for four hours four
11849s hours but we were actually like just
11853s gonna keep the cameras rolling until
11856s they run out of battery okay and maybe
11859s you will see so is that allowed we're
11861s gonna be naked
11862s it's twits oh oh no nothing No so maybe
11869s we'll have to do that allows in Finland
11871s is it allowed
11872s to be naked on to not to make it not
11875s like it yeah oh yeah nowadays yeah is it
11877s allowed to be a regretting loss by very
11880s close yeah in the sound of course so
11885s okay so no filming in the saminin okay
11887s so I guess we have to do the Austin
11889s Powers of getting associates yeah who
11894s knows what's the scream what's the
11896s stream yeah it's out of control so on
11903s that note we're gonna take a very short
11904s break and then we will be back with some
11907s strings
11907s if slow TV okay
11912s [Applause]
11917s you