Original Post — Direct link

EHG, since you're active in this sub, please take note. I just saw this thread, and in this comment OP mentioned they'd run Lagon 120+ times to get that 2LP Stonecarved Testament.

Based on the rest of that thread, it's clear they're running MG. I'm also currently running MG on a build that needs that item, and I just want to say that it's a bit insane to me that I should need to run a timeline boss (ANY timeline boss) 120+ times to get a 2LP item. And IMO it's a bit insane for the market value of such an item to be 25M-50M gold.

I don't know how much time you think we should need to spend to get a 2LP version of that item (even in MG), but if you think I should need to clear enough monos to fight Lagon 120+ times, we have a SERIOUS disconnect here.

Maybe people just killing an hour or two before bed every night isn't your primary target audience, but come on. I could see 50-75 for a 2LP item. But 120+?? Is that really what I'm looking at? I don't even want to think about what it would take to get 2LP for the rest of my gear slots.

And sh*t, now that I'm thinking of it ... that's 120+ just to get the 2LP item! f*ck me! It could take me 15-20 of those to get one that has the better two of four possible mods on it. f*ck all that noise!

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4 months ago - /u/ekimarcher - Direct link

This is an interesting dilemma because we do get feedback from this point of view. The disconnect is usually to do with the relative rarity of LP from unique to unique being so massively different. You find a few 2 or 3 LP items on low LPL items and it gives a skewed view of what LP to expect on every unique. You find a late game unique that goes well in your build and expect to be able to farm up a 2+ LP version because you've got several low LPL uniques in your stash.

This particular item at 2LP is mega rare. It is an item that is designed to be used as a unique item in most cases. Every kill of Lagon has a chance to drop it at 2LP from 0.0462% at base up to 0.3696% with full increased rarity mods. Even 1LP only has a top end chance of 7.44% to drop from Lagon with full increased rarity.

My point is that, yes, getting the item after this lengthy grind process is expected. And if it was expected that players get a 2LP+ version of this item then I agree that it would be too rare. The primary use case for this item is a coin flip to drop with max increased rarity. That's extremely reasonable.

So personally I am more inclined to look towards the way that this information is communicated to the player as the issue instead of the rarity itself. Having someone set off on the hunt to get a 2LP version of this item to drop in the first place is the main problem I'm seeing.

There are two ways that interest me to address this issue. 1, make the relative rarity of LP per unique much more explicit so people don't get unreasonable expectations. 2, put hard limits on the max LP of each unique. Personally I prefer number 1 but it doesn't really address the issue you have with it.

Now, you mention that your build needs that item. If you actually need a 2LP version to make the build function then that's more likely an indication that we should be giving more stats elsewhere or maybe on the base unique itself. I am a little skeptical of your build requiring a 2LP version of this to function though.

This might actually be a build performance expectation mismatch. If your goal is 4 digit corruption, your sights are set extremely high. If your goal is to down Aberroth then I don't think a 2LP version of this item should be required. If it actually is, then it probably means that the skills are underpowered and could need a buff.

Having said all that. I do believe that there is an issue in the gearing curve when you get into mid to late end game. Around the time you're able to get this item actually. So we are adding some new mechanics and tools in 1.2 that will change the way you interact with the end game gearing process. We are still making adjustments to it so I can't share specifics at the moment.

4 months ago - /u/ekimarcher - Direct link

Originally posted by HDDreamer

I feel like oftentimes I'm looking at my stats, usually defenses, and see that replacing a good exalted item with a 1 or 2 LP unique rarely gains me more than I feel I'm losing.

In my head I often use the term defense juggling because of how many stats I need to keep around the cap just to survive at higher corruptions, and it's really annoying to try and replace one item without having to shuffle around a bunch of other stuff to stay balanced on resists, anti-crit, endurance and threshold, etc.

Have you guys ever talked about changing the two prefix two suffix system to just four general affix slots?

Yup, it's not something we are interested in at this time.

4 months ago - /u/ekimarcher - Direct link

Originally posted by flapanther33781

You find a few 2 or 3 LP items on low LPL items and it gives a skewed view of what LP to expect on every unique.

I very much disagree with this assessment. That might be true for some people, but that's not at all how I feel, nor was that the point I was trying to make. I understand that some items with 2LP are more rare than others, I understand why that is, and I agree that should be the case.

What I'm doing is questioning your assessment of what is an appropriate drop rate for that specific item. One of the things that attracted me to this game is that you guys have seemed to be more respectful of player time than other companies, and the mindset of having goals that are achievable within a league/cycle timeframe, so it strikes me as misaligned to have individual items that would take an entire cycle just to get a useful version of. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's nice to get a great item three days before the end of a cycle, but it's also a bit anticlimactic because I can't help but look at that and think, "That's awesome, but I wish I would've gotten that three months ago."

It's also important to keep in mind that having it as 2LP doesn't mean it's going to be what I want it to be. I'm getting 0LP and 1LP versions of this item often enough that I can take those to Julra or Nemesis until I get INT on it (which is the main mod I need), but 2LP is so exceedingly rare I'd pretty much have no choice but to accept that whatever 2 mods I get on it are just what I'm going to get, because I'm NOT going to get another one this cycle. Now, if I got the 2LP item as a drop I might be able to sell it if the two mods I get on it are useful to someone else, but if I were to buy one via trade that's it, that's all I'm getting, so I'd better be okay with that.

Having someone set off on the hunt to get a 2LP version of this item to drop in the first place is the main problem I'm seeing.

There are two ways that interest me to address this issue. 1, make the relative rarity of LP per unique much more explicit so people don't get unreasonable expectations. 2, put hard limits on the max LP of each unique. Personally I prefer number 1 but it doesn't really address the issue you have with it.

If you think it's a problem that I should even be hoping to get this item as 2LP then I would say setting the hard limit of 2LP on this item would certainly make it clearer that I shouldn't be expecting it to be likely to get. Of course how you'd communicate each item's cap on each unique would be a question.

That said, it would be nice to be able to keep 3LP and 4LP versions of this item as options if only because how cool it could be for that to drop for someone, but it sounds like those might be once in a lifetime things, even rarer than mirrors are in PoE. Well, 3LP of this item might be mirror rare, and 4LP might be once in a lifetime. Which now makes me wonder how many people have gotten one and vendored it because they didn't know what they had ... which also makes me wonder if maybe you guys should split current uniques into a new item type where they look different based on their odds of dropping, so that anyone who gets one can assess rarity on sight. For example, if 2-4LP versions of Stormcarved Testament drop as white, but only 4LP Hazelroot dropped as white, then maybe that would make for clearer expectations. (I'm guessing on the 4LP Hazelroot drop rate, just using that as an example.) .... kind of like how PoE has replica items that look slightly different to show that they're not the exact same item, except here I'm suggesting they be the same item, but making them look slightly different only to reflect rarity.

Now, you mention that your build needs that item. If your goal is 4 digit corruption

Miswording on my part. I probably should've said "uses" rather than "needs". My goal is to beat Aberroth. I don't know that I need it at 1LP or 2LP to beat Aberroth, as there are still a number of things I''m trying to improve on this build, and I don't know yet which will be needed to help me beat Aberroth. But the point of my post was to talk about the difficulty of upgrading this item.

we are adding some new mechanics and tools in 1.2 that will change the way you interact with the end game gearing process

Yes, I saw the announcement. I'm curious to see what you guys have in mind, and will look forward to seeing it.

Either way, thank you for responding.

Sorry, I didn't really mean "you" you. Just like players in general. And fair enough, that's not what is happening here. I went off on a bit of a tangent then but I still think it's an issue we need to solve.

Given how this item in particular is positioned in the loot flow, I'm more interested in looking to the power of the item itself rather than the LPL of the item.

One of the several things that the legendary system in general doing is giving lower level uniques a chance to be played in end game. Having the higher LP ranks be too available for very late game uniques eats into that part of the system. That's not to say it can't be any more common but that's a less obvious pressure source for keeping the LP low on it in general.

Regardless, thanks for the feedback on it.