devtrackers.gg
I just want to caution everyone. This information, while very close, is technically not correct. So I don't recommend trying to reconcile it with anecdotal evidence.
Edit: and no I'm not talking about rounding the numbers.
so the carrot isn't on the Moon is on Pluto right.
These numbers for some items looks like uber uniques in D4.
Also if you guys redeem it "not correct" how about giving us the correct numbers.
This comment is exactly the reason we haven't released the numbers. I'm a little sad that they have gotten so close.
The reason that this isn't the same thing as uber uniques in D4 is that the unique effect associated with these items all still exist on the 0LP versions. We want people to farm for Wings of Argentus, not 4LP Wings of Argentus. But if the stars align and someone does eventually manage to get lucky, it will be a really cool event to talk about. I understand that the fact something is technically possible can lead people to believe that it is expected to have. I'm not sure how to reconcile this. It is possible that we might have to put an LP cap on each item. I really don't want to do that because all it really does it take away the chance of magic happening.
Raxx found the hammer with 1 LP. Is that 0,007%?
There isn't enough information in your post to tell if that's right or not. Where did it drop?
And if they use some formula instead of hardcoded values for level 100 zones, they even have elegant solution for this - make corruption increase effective zone level by, say, corruption/10. So at 1000 corruption you'd be considered as being in level 200 zone instead of 100.
The game does use a formula, these values are approximated from evaluating a similar formula.
Speaking of which, mad respect for y’all allowing for that legendary (pun intended) chance of a truly god tier 4LP drop on near any unique. Makes every one that drops just that much more exciting to see!
Yea, we'll see what happens with it. I'm hoping that some show up on the Bazaar and that helps to turn the general sentiment towards how you feel.
Quick question, If you’re at liberty or desire to answer by the way. Is there any plan for a system parallel to LP/Weaver’s for set items?
I love some of the set items but I often struggle to justify building around the cooler ones (looking at you, Gaspar’s) in leu of choosing uniques that allow me to push my build further.
Personally I think Weaver’s Will is a great system that would adapt well to Sets, giving you the option to push the item further without selectively min-maxing like a 3/4LP can do.
Sets have the unfortunate property of their tooltips already being way too long. Adding more lines to them will only make matters worse. We have plans to modify how set items fit into the overall gearing process. We aren't prepared to explain any information as to what that means at all yet.
and yes, that was intentionally as vague as possible, sorry.
Sorry, I didn’t witness the drop. Is the area relevant for LP? Just saw his youtube video where he crafted apathy’s maw. (Just realized it’s an axe not hammer)
I assumed that was what you were talking about. The zone level matters for LP drops, the image posted here assumes a level 100 zone.
Does sealed experimental affixes work for LP?
No, Legendary creation never takes sealed affixes.
Your sad that people playing your game worked out drop rates for items? Lol.
Also this 'But if the stars align and someone does eventually manage to get lucky, it will be a really cool event to talk about' is the *exact* reasoning d4 devs gave behind uber uniques drop rates. Anyway, see you in season 2 when we get a boss to target farm high lp off of.
I'm sad that we can't hide anything. I still remember the golden age of discovery of D2 runewords. I would love to have something like that happen with Epoch but they would just get looked up.
Occy vs no occy is completely different than 2LP wings vs 3LP wings. The mechanically unique item doesn't have anywhere remotely close to the same rarity as the D4 uber rare legendaries.
Not to mention that the data in the graphic is wrong and misleading so people get confused about it.
So what you're saying is if you supplied the actual data it would be better? No matter what happens, people will try and work out the chances, because we're playing an arpg in 2023, not 2000. So unless you're just gonna sticky your own comments to any reddit post trying to work it out saying it's wrong, without giving any indication if its too high, or too low, this is the reality of making a game with loot drops.
I get your point, but it feels like the first implementation of the covenant system in WoW. The devs had their game design ideas about why it was good, those were tied to beliefs about how people interacted with games in the past. Then what happened is it turned out people play games differently now, and by designing around something from the past, the players didn't enjoy it as much.
You can certainly make an arpg thats like it came out in the year 2000, but I think the interest in last epoch probably means that's not so sensible, people want to play an arpg from 2023 (or 2024 as we're close).
The reason we don't want to make this information public isn't rooted in the past. The reason I'm sad about it becoming public is my nostalgia for the past. I'm sad because we won't be able to manufacture a community wide event like discovering what runewords are possible. We have attempted things like this in the past and it kinda worked. (Fractured Crown)
The reason we don't want to make the information public is the result of us sitting down at a group and debating what we think would be best for the game now. 1 example of perfect percentage chances being damaging to the player experience was what happened with our old crafting system. People saw the chances and their personal experiences did not seem to line up with displayed values (it did but confirmation bias is a brutal monster). People are generally really bad at interpreting these types of chances and are even worse at reconciling it with their personal experiences (even worse when the data is wrong).
We don't think that this information being public will improve the overall enjoyment of the game so we don't want to release it.
I think the way that last epoch tools has presented the mined information is way better. They use a description for the general rarity and don't list them for chances that are too small. So 4LP wings doesn't have a listing and 1LP probably says "rare".
But people are gonna keep trying to work out the exact values for every single item. You said that the data worked out so far is misleading. There isn't a world in which people don't try to work out these values, as the game grows, the more this type of thing will happen.
So either you're fine with people being misled when some items get mistakes on them, as thats a natural part of a community for a game developing; some stuff that's worked out will just be wrong. Or you're not fine with that, and give some amount of information for these drop rates.
Now sure, it could just be your personal opinion on this, but you sticked an official response to this saying it's not technically correct, without any other information (what in the spreadsheet isn't correct, how far out it is, if its too high or too low etc...), which doesn't really help anything, it just means people have a set of data that is close, but not perfect, so the only real way to deal with it is accept it's the best we have right now and still go off it.
I just don't really get what the angle on responding to this like you have is. Either let the community cook, or give us the actual information, doesn't really matter if the community comes up with something thats wrong cus eventually we'll figure it out anyway. Stickying an official response of 'this is close, but not perfect' just seems odd, and only leads to more confusion, which is something you're saying is bad. Unless it's being done with the intention of like 'you're close, keep at it!' but the tone doesn't seem to be that.
I'm also confused about what you mean about 'manufacture a community wide event'. The community trying to work out this stuff is literally that, just organic lol.
We are still discussing how we want to handle this. We knew it was coming but weren't quite ready for it. I've been authorized to say that the data is wrong but not yet how it's wrong. We will be addressing it more completely. Given the scope of what has been released, I expect that the specific data will be released. I just don't know yet. I just figured it was better to tell people this was wrong than to just let it sit.
Anyone who has played a moderate amount of the end game should be able to tell these numbers are off pretty quickly. I'm very surprised that the image got created as it is.
A 'manufactured community event' is like letting people know that a set of things is possible but only giving incomplete information and the tools to discover the rest. Previously, we added the Fractured Crown unique item, data miners found it but quickly realized that it couldn't drop anywhere. So people started experimenting. At the time, you had to fracture a crown in the crafting system with specific mods and it would create the item. It has a different method since we changed the crafting system. It was a really cool time, people were sharing their results and it was this collaborative event to find the item. We probably can't make something like this happen again but I'd really like to try.