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Hey guys, so I'm apparently one of the lucky people who had a near flawless clash experience on EUW. It was super amazing, as other people on this subreddit have already pointed out anyway. However, there are some things I instantly noticed with the format that I think should be adressed for a better experience.

1 - The Tiers seem very weirdly divided

I am Plat IV together with another friend in my team, and we are both ranked in Tier IV. Another Plat IV in our team is ranked Tier III. Together with 2 more Silvers we are actually Tier IV which is the lowest tier which I find insane. What about full silver/bronze teams, I feel like they don't get to play Clash. Also I was looking at some of the winning Teams from Tier I and there was literally a team like this: Dia3, Dia4, Plat2, Plat4, Gold1. Tier I!? This feels so wrongly matched.

2 - Losing after second round should result in a 3rd place match

When losing first round you can get to win up to 2 more games, but when winning first round and losing second round you're done. You shouldn't be punished more for going further in the first place, especially since you actually get less victory points. Another option would be to reduce the victory point the losers bracket gets to 50-100 per game or something. I also like reducing the points anyway since it should somewhat feel punishing to be in the losers bracket.

3 - There should be 5 minute breaks between games

Honestly this is the most important one in my opinion. If you have a really casual game, you probably won't notice this, as you can just jump straight into the next one and it's fine. But having had a stressful game where the enemies were ahead and we made a really cool comeback, I would have really appreciated 5 minutes to cool down after the game, talk about what happened, go to the bathroom, grab some water, etc. Killing the nexus and immediately being presented with the next scouting phase is really intense, especially since it's quite short, so you have to immediately concentrate again. I think a good solution would also be a 5 minute lock-in window between games, so if you do want to jump straight into the next game, you can.

Overall, I think clash was a super great experience, but that's my suggestions on how to improve it.

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about 5 years ago - /u/RiotIAmWalrus - Direct link

Thanks for the feedback, lots of good stuff here!

  1. TIERS - Even though Tier IV is very big, we still match teams against each other based on MMR. So while a team of five Golds and a team of five Irons might both be Tier IV, they won't typically end up in the same bracket (unless it's the end of the night and we're closing things out). That being said, Tier IV is definitely too big right now and we're going to move things around to make it smaller.

  2. 3RD PLACE MATCH - Been getting this feedback a lot and we agree. Can't say when just yet, but it's on our backlog of things to add!

  3. BREAK BETWEEN MATCHES - This is a tough one. When you come out of a long, intense game, I totally get that feeling of needing a break. But typically, your opponents have been waiting for a while for your game to end, and are kind of having the opposite experience. I think we can try out a longer scouting period for rounds 2 and 3 potentially, but we risk giving teams that have fast games too much downtime, since we block you from playing other games while you're in Clash.

Thanks again, glad you enjoyed it, and looking forward to making it work well for everyone else too!

about 5 years ago - /u/RiotIAmWalrus - Direct link

Originally posted by deano10003

To answer the tier question. I’m not sure because one of my team mates it’s gold 2 and the other is gold 1 and the the G2 is tier 3 and the g1 is tier 4. Could possibly be MMR?

It is definitely MMR - Rank doesn't always match MMR 100%, especially when you're talking about the difference between a 1 and a 2 in the same Tier.

Also, Clash does use some separate methods for finding smurfs, so it's possible one of these players is triggering one of those adjustments.

about 5 years ago - /u/RiotIAmWalrus - Direct link

Originally posted by legendary1107

Is there some kind of weighting within the tiers as well? Or is a team that's close to being Tier III totally the same as a team with full Iron MMR players? Because for us, it felt like the former - we are one Plat I plus 4 low Plat/high Gold players and only saw one Silver guy in 3 games. Matches were pretty well balanced.

Yes, we try to match based on team MMR - so low Tier IV teams and high Tier IV teams generally won't match up, unless we're at the end of the night and just have to make whatever brackets we can. But yeah, Tier IV has gotten a little too large so this feels very confusing.

We want Clash to be playable for all skill levels, so we're really trying to not throw Iron teams to the wolves :D

about 5 years ago - /u/RiotIAmWalrus - Direct link

Originally posted by SmokeCocks

BREAK BETWEEN MATCHES - This is a tough one. When you come out of a long, intense game, I totally get that feeling of needing a break. But typically, your opponents have been waiting for a while for your game to end, and are kind of having the opposite experience. I think we can try out a longer scouting period for rounds 2 and 3 potentially, but we risk giving teams that have fast games too much downtime, since we block you from playing other games while you're in Clash.

This, I had a 18min clash game and we all waited for 16min for other games to end, then a 5 min scout phase along side it.

Question, if the team I'm about to face off against is out of their game ( I can see they won their last game) why are we still waiting for teams who we're not paired with?

We wait for a full round to complete so that we don't generate more waiting later on. Let's say you're crushing it, win your first game in 15 minutes. So do your opponents, so you play the next game like 25 minutes after the bracket started, and you win again in 15 minutes. You would be done with all but finals in ~40 minutes.

MEANWHILE, on the other side of the bracket, folks are taking a more typical 35 minutes to complete a game. It'll take then ~80 minutes to reach the final - meaning you'd be all hyped for your final match, then wait 40 minutes for an opponent.

We think it's a better experience to have multiple smaller waits than a single gigantic one. Especially because we may experiment with longer brackets in the future, where this would be even worse.

about 5 years ago - /u/RiotIAmWalrus - Direct link

Originally posted by bbjimin

Its so weird that a bronze-gold team can get carried by a nearly diamond jungler in tier 4.

This was our matchup last night. He had equal/higher elo solo laners and he was almost 2 full tiers ahead of me (though I have like G1 MMR since MMR effects it, so just 1 full tier...)

If there is a player in P2+ they should automatically be a Tier 3 team regardless of what the rest of the team is imo. This game was straight up not balanced. Its SO easy to just put your really bad players on shit like Malphite or Veigar and they just get to survive for no real reason (and they still get to be useful)

(Day 1 was much more fun and balanced though. No random P2 players...)

We have tried that in the past, and found that it ended up having the opposite effect, where those teams with a single high ranking player were hugely overmatched and basically unable to play.

That said, we're going to keep tuning our matchmaking, and we may not be weighing a single high ranked player heavily enough yet. We're definitely going to keep tuning a lot of Clash matchmaking for a while, since it's a pretty different dynamic from our more established matchmaking methods!

about 5 years ago - /u/RiotIAmWalrus - Direct link

Originally posted by a1orian

We lost our first game yesterday and went to the loser bracket. Our opponent ff'ed their game instantly (probably someone left their team). So we had to wait almost 1.5h for our next game.

I think it would be great to give us the opportunity to spectate games while waiting.

It's on our wishlist - the way spectator works right now, we can't force you to leave spectator once your next match is ready, so it would be very easy for someone to be spectating a match and accidentally miss their next game. But now that Clash is looking more stable (knock on wood), we can start getting into a lot of those kinds of improvements

about 5 years ago - /u/RiotIAmWalrus - Direct link

Originally posted by Vyoh

Is it normal we didn't get any banner rewards? I got 750 points for winning a Tier I bracket and thus should have passed the 400 points mark easily but there is no banner to be selected in my profile.

We had a configuration error with the banners - they should be out now. Sorry for the delay!