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Just haven't seen much talk about K'Sante on the sub, what do y'all think? I've seen a lot of Lourlo playing him and he looks really cool, lot of outplay potential, and skill expression. I feel like Riot did pretty great at making a tank that actually makes you go holy sh*t. Looks flashier than Yasuo even.

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14 days ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by daswef2

He doesn't play anything like a tank or feel anything like a tank, if the "solution" to making a fun tank is to just make a fighter then that's a huge disappointment. Maybe the next tank release five years from now will land a little better.

Devil's advocate:

Player inputs are not the same thing as champion outputs. Maybe Riot's done a historically bad job of making fun player inputs for tanks.

Malphite has no (edit: one) interesting buttons to press. His output is clearly tank since 3/4 buttons apply crowd control and his passive and W give him durability. But he's not fun to play (for most people). I'd argue Rammus fills a similar niche in a much more interesting way.

K'Sante, however, has really interesting player inputs. He deals some damage, sure, but every button is CC or shielding. He probably "feels" like a fighter because he has fighter inputs: Tight timing windows (W), auto-attack resets, low-ish cooldowns, and huge positional play. So he PLAYS like a fighter or skirmisher but he still fits team comps like a tank.

Honestly, taking a slightly optimistic view of it, that just seems kinda genius IMO.

14 days ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by daswef2

I see what you're saying and that is an interesting perspective. To some extent there is value to really pushing the boundary of how classes feel to give variety, but then obviously you run into the Pyke problem sometimes where its not a tank for tank players, its a tank for people who don't otherwise play tanks, which is fun for some but not for others.

Also i dont personally think the button feedback on Ksante feels that good, and that is clouding my opinion. E feels really awkward to use and W doesn't feel as powerful as like Alistar Headbutt for instance.

Completely biased but I personally think that tank built Galio is a good example of a tank with lots of fun buttons to press, and I think that's one of the most fun and unique tank releases ever.

I think Galio is very cool.

I also think it is a very good thing for League, and by extension its roles, to fit as large a variety of players as possible. This includes unique champions like K’Sante.

14 days ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by NWStormraider

I honestly think the main problem Tank mains (me included) have with K'sante not feeling like a Tank is reliability. A tank has two jobs, which are starting a Fight, and keeping your backline safe. For both of those you need reliable high impact abilities, that you can instantly use when the time is right. K'sante does not have something like that, sure his R is powerful, but it is neither an Initiator nor a protection tool, and while his Q provides a lot of cc, it is not always up when you need it, and you can't keep it ready.

Guess Braum’s not a tank then. Not all tanks initiate.

14 days ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by NWStormraider

Braum ult is both an insane Engage and Disengage tool, and the definition of "Reliable high Impact Ability", so what are you talking about? K'santes only tool when someone jumps the ADC is to ult the enemy, unless he happens to have the Q charged, and if you don't hit a wall it covers about as much distance as a Poppy e. And Poppy has another unconditional cc and a conditional one to back that up.

E is a shield, w is a stun, and r is another stun+displacement. None of those require setup. Q is a slow without setup, which is admittedly less powerful. Literally every button on K’Sante’s kit helps keep a squishy alive.

Braum R is horrible engage. Virtually every other tank engages better than Braum.