Original Post — Direct link

I think with a post like this people don't want to waste time reading stuff so I'm going to be quick then put the data, I'll put my thoughts on it afterwards. Below is a table showing the data collected by looking at the last 20 games played by each of the top 100 players on the EUW, NA and KR servers. I looked at the tier average for each of those 20 games and recorded the frequency split by server. I also took the amount of time each player took to play their last 20 games and averaged it to get a value for roughly how many games the top 100 players on each server are playing a day.

Europe West North America Korea
Master 264 42 12
Grandmaster 1732 1286 1189
Challenger 4 672 799
Average Games Per Day 4.2 3.45 3.42

So even to someone who doesn't know what this means I think it's fairly obvious that the numbers for Europe look very different to the relatively similar stats for Korea and North America. I think to most people on this subreddit however the table should be fairly self explanatory. The only misunderstanding I could see happening is that these numbers do not reflect the actual number of games happening. For example the 4 data points for European challenger MMR games does not equal 4 different games. In fact 3 of those data points are from the same game. Which means there are only 2 games I could find which could reasonably be called a Challenger MMR game. You can take a look at them here.

1 2

I actually tweeted some stats like this recently and one of the main counterpoints I got was "maybe because everyone is scrimming all the time in Europe there are actually just less chance for higher MMR games to happen". Even if this were true I think the disparity between EUW and the other two servers should not be this large based off just that factor alone. On top of that at least for the top 100 players we can actually see that people are on average playing more games a day in Europe than the other two servers. So If anything we should be having more higher MMR games than them, not less.

All three servers have exactly 300 Challenger players and 700 Grandmaster players which is the reason I chose to compare these three in the first place. Obviously some of the stats might change if I had spent the time to include all 300 players from each server and sampled more games however I think the sample I have taken is already large enough to prove my point.

I don't know whether Riot is deliberately using a different algorithm for matchmaking in Europe and this is the intended result or if something has gone wrong and this is completely unintentional. Unfortunately there is no way of finding out without a statement from Riot themselves. Regardless of which it is I think it's safe to say that most people would agree that the current state of Matchmaking on EUW is unacceptable.

One final point is that this problem (whatever is actually causing it) may be affecting matchmaking at all levels of soloQ. I'm just not sure how easy that would be to prove compared to showing the problems at the top end.

I don't really see any value in turning this into anymore of a wall of text than it is, I think the stats speak for themselves. If you want to see the full raw data I'll link it here. Apart from that if anyone wants to ask me anything about this or point out something I might have missed, feel free.

External link →
over 4 years ago - /u/RiotIAmWalrus - Direct link

Interesting analysis! I have some more detailed takeaways, but here is a quick TL;DR:
EUW did have a configuration difference that was optimizing for faster matches at higher MMR for a little looser matchmaking. The actual Match Quality is way closer when measuring by the metrics we actually use to make games (not LP), but there's some room for improvement so we're going to shift it to be closer in line to other regions.

- First, cool idea and thanks for bringing this stuff up!
- So as you know, we don't match on LP, we match on MMR. The two numbers correlate pretty well up at the top of the ladder, but there's a lot of ways it can differ from region to region. So while the numbers can look pretty jarring here, they're much closer in reality. For example, looking at only players with Master or higher MMR, the 90th percentile of worst games still had both teams within ~1 win's MMR of each other in all regions. Differences between teammates were also extremely similar across all regions.
- EUW was configured slightly differently because of some changes from back when Position Ranks came out in NA and KR
- The reason basing this analysis on visible rank makes the problem look a little worse is that it assumes all Master/GM/Challenger players are a uniform skill distribution across all regions. In some regions, the ladder is very top heavy, with the best players having a fairly sizable lead. Some regions are middle heavy, with some outliers on the high side taking the Challenger spots. So one GM player may be substantially different than another GM player, MMR-wise, and averaging out based on tier can make a match look worse than it is.
- While LP and MMR correlate pretty well at the top of the ladder for accounts with a lot of games, this is less true for newer accounts. A Diamond I player with a lower game count may be actually a Diamond I player, or a Challenger player still on their climb. Some regions have higher incidences of multiple accounts, and that can make any kind of LP-based matchmaking analysis a bit misleading.

I don't want to let those quibbles take away from how useful this was, though, so thanks again!

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over 4 years ago - /u/RiotIAmWalrus - Direct link

Originally posted by xVinjo

Posted above! Thanks for flagging me

over 4 years ago - /u/RiotIAmWalrus - Direct link

Originally posted by Silenceu

When will this fix go live?

It actually did before I finished writing that post - the change itself is pretty simple.

over 4 years ago - /u/RiotIAmWalrus - Direct link

Originally posted by GarryGarryson

by the metrics we actually use to make games

What are those?

We have a matchmaking rating (MMR) that we use as a current estimation of your skill. When we make a game, we try to find players with similar MMR, but also account for factors like how long they've been waiting, if they're in a premade, etc.

over 4 years ago - /u/RiotIAmWalrus - Direct link

Originally posted by GarryGarryson

Ah okay thank you! Is MMR closeness the indicator of match quality? Are there post match analysis of the quality dependent on the result? I only casually understand league and matchmaking processes.

So defining the "quality" of a match is something we approach from a lot of different angles, but for the purposes of "is the matchmaking system working correctly," we generally care about how close teammates are to one another, and how close teams are to one another by MMR.

For post-match analyses dependent on the result, we also do that - getting matches with close MMR differences only works if the rating is correlating properly with actual skill/wins. Loosely speaking, for any given match, we can assume that the team with the higher MMR is predicted to win - and the difference gives us a level of confidence in our predictions. We're aiming to keep matches as close to 50/50 as possible, so when a match is close, the prediction is less confident because both teams could very easily win. We then check that prediction against the actual results to make sure the system is predicting correctly, and especially so in cases where it has strong confidence.

over 4 years ago - /u/RiotIAmWalrus - Direct link

Originally posted by toroth

How does it look like on EUNE? I was wondering, since I felt like the matchmaking felt as awful unbalanced as in EUW, in essence friend of mine just recently played with a team where there was like gold team vs gold players + bronze~ with 20% wr and some diamond (I know it's not example from higher mmr, but it also happens in there and I feel like something is awfully wrong on low/mid-mmr). Anyway, I have strong feeling there is the same issue going on with EUNE, as in EUW did.

Definitely not seeing the same stuff on EUNE, and this would only be affecting the very top of the ladder.

over 4 years ago - /u/RiotIAmWalrus - Direct link

Originally posted by Tentacula

Will this impact the ARAM queue as well?

The change we made would not impact ARAM, I believe.

over 4 years ago - /u/RiotIAmWalrus - Direct link

Originally posted by toroth

Alright, so it could have been some edge case (I try to question him about this specific match, but he is sleeping atm, it's a middle of night here! :P), anyway there are a lot of friends on eune and euw complaining about ranked experience this season, but can't put a finger exactly on what's wrong besides huge skill difference of the players (they even compare normal games with gold/plat players around to be harder than ranked high mmr games with diamond~ players mostly and apparently I kinda think so too, I mean I have more often tougher games on normals haha).

Also just one more quick question - is flex and soloq algorithms different? Besides taking maybe extra factor of different size of a premade team?

Flex ratings differ from solo queue ratings - they're informed by some of the same stuff, but not the same. The algorithms are almost exactly the same, but the base info is different. It's something we're looking into changing in the future!