Original Post — Direct link

Sanguine Blade historically has always been an item for Duelists. Champs who want an item that gives attack speed, AD and lifesteal. Champs like Quinn, Tryndamere, Kayle, Irelia, Fiora and Zed. Splitpushing was an afterthought because you get into 1v1s most often when splitpushing.

But Hullbreaker is a bruiser/juggernaut item. It's not something to make squishy champs attack better, it makes off tank champs tankier. Jax might still like it, but it mostly benefits the Renektons and Nasus's of the world than the Quinns and Kayles.

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over 3 years ago - /u/GalaxySmash - Direct link

Originally posted by SauloJr

Over the time, I think I understood the following: Riot wants something the way they want.

If Riot wants x champion to be played in x role, Riot will nerf the champ in its current role (that's supposedly not the role it "was supposed" to be in) in order to make it play the role they want. Qiyana JG for example; they wanted her mid, so they made her bad jungle.

Riot didn't want Sanguine Blade to be a duelist item. Riot wanted it to be a splitpushing item.

That's why Riot decided they will remove it to add the item they want (that fulfill the sole purpose of splitpushing). Sanguine simply isn't what they wanted.

Not entirely wrong, though I think the phrasing here leaves some things that can be misconstrued. When we design things we always have a specific goal in mind. I can't speak specifically to Sanguine/Hullbreaker, but for example when we make a champion we have a goal lane that we want them to be good in, and maybe another lane that we are ok with them also being good in. We actively want that specific champion to be good somewhere, so it makes sense for us to make changes to make them better in that role (and sometimes, worse in other roles). We can make the same correlation for items. For example its pretty clear we want Luden's to be a mage item, so if it was good on Tanks (somehow) it would make sense for us to make changes to make it either worse on tanks, or better on mages to try to reach those goals. Things get much more complicated when you really dive into the nitty-gritty, but that is a very simplified explanation.

over 3 years ago - /u/GalaxySmash - Direct link

Originally posted by RenegadeExiled

the other guy worded things to heavily insinuate that Riot demands things be exactly how they plan. X champion MUST be Y role, no exceptions. Which, he's not wrong. Riot very much tries to enforce things like "Janna is a support, nothing else". But they also allow natural evolution to champions, like Zyra literally only being a Midlaner, her intended role, when she's batshit OP, and instead is one of the main Mage Supports.

Granted, a lot of that falls apart when you see Seraphine or Viego being played more in their non-intended roles, and seeing better success there. Or Sett, the master of Quadraflexing.

Yeah we allow for some level of flexibility for sure, as long as its not game-breaking or unhealthy. Something like Viego mid or top being comprable to jungle isn't that unhealthy, but obviously if something like Yuumi jungle was good there would be clear gameplay problems.

over 3 years ago - /u/GalaxySmash - Direct link

Originally posted by DSThresh

what about mage champs on bot/top and adc champs on mid/top ?

We definitely allow for some level of flexbility, where they become a problem is where they harm the overall health of the game and create problems. Ziggs and some other mages being playable bot occasionally? probably not a big deal. Mages being so good that they completely replace marksman bot lane? Definitely a problem because its invalidating the marksman class.

over 3 years ago - /u/GalaxySmash - Direct link

Originally posted by GreyWolfx

I wish you guys would just let things be good in weirdly unexpected and unintuitive ways. Some of the most fun I had in this game was ages ago by looking for really strong, weird stuff and taking advantage of the fact that other people weren't recognizing it as being as good simply because it was unintuitive. These days though, if something is good but "not intended" it will get nerfed promptly into a sub 50 winrate position to put an end to the fun before it starts. It's just a boring philosophy and discourages creativity and "treasure hunting" or looking for cool shit no one else has found yet and getting rewarded for a while until the rest discover it as well (probably from watching you pop off with it.)

I definitely find myself yearning for the days of old sometimes, I used to love playing Sona mid for example. I think a lot of the problem here stems from how hyper-optimized the game is now. Its great that everyone has reliable, easy access to really accurate data sources for just about everything for league, but one of the downsides is that often when something "unexpected" becomes even remotely strong, it completely takes over the meta. Good recent examples of this are Soraka/Sona top. Plenty of really strong, quirky stuff still exists out there I assure you, but the problem usually comes when it becomes optimal because then it tends to start causing problems.

over 3 years ago - /u/GalaxySmash - Direct link

Originally posted by DSThresh

what about vayne lucian kalista mid/toplane ?

Depends on the champ. As long as they aren't overpowered or dominant for the most part they aren't that bad. Most only exist as niche counterpicks anyway, which will always exist. Something like Kalista might be a problem because Kalista in a solo lane does not utilize a large portion of her kit, for example her passive on W and for the most part her R. If a champion is functioning without some of their abilities that is likely not something we want, so we might look to make changes to help rectify that.

over 3 years ago - /u/GalaxySmash - Direct link

Originally posted by darkacesp

What about Lucian? Seems like he’s very much just left bot lane for mid and has more success there.

Realize Riot did nerf him, but mid feels more and more where I see him.

It happens, champions migrate lanes. Nocturne for example used to be almost only a jungler but now he is very much in solo lanes. We hold more stricter goals for new champions as well as champions we are actively making changes to, but it's simply impossible to enforce strict goals for every existing champion in the game. If we deemed that Lucian mid/top was unhealthy for a specific reason or perhaps it became a pro play problem, then that might lead us to make some changes.