Original Post — Direct link

Hello reddit,

I am a Master's student in mathematics who has played league for many years but never posted anything here. In this post I want to give my take on the new "Ability Haste" stat which is going to replace "Cooldown Reduction (CDR)". I am not a native speaker so excuse any (language) mistakes. For mathematical incorrectness I will of course take the blame. If you really hate math and don't want anything to do with it you might wanna skip to the tldr or even ignore the post. Although the math is very simple and I always try to give concrete examples rather than formulas or abstract explanations.

CDR:

At first glance the concept of CDR is simple. Let's assume we have an ability that has a 10 second cooldown and you then buy items that give 20% CDR. Then this reduces the downtime of your ability by 20%, meaning your new cooldown is 10s*80%=8s. Nothing new so far. But something that I'm sure not everybody knows is that CDR gets "more and more valuable". What do I mean by that? Let's stick with the example of our ability that has a 10 second cooldown. For illustration, we assume our ability is a simple damaging ability. Of course each 10% CDR gives 1 less second on your cooldown. So with 10% CDR your cooldown is 9s, with 20% CDR your cooldown is 8s and so on. In that sense CDR scales linearly. But let's look now at how much damage you could do in a set timeframe, say 100 seconds. Without CDR you could cast the ability 10 times obviously. With 10% CDR ( meaning your cooldown is now 9s) you could already cast the ability 100/9≈11.11 times. This means you got an increase in your damage during this timeframe (or more simply an increase in your dps) of around 11.1% but you only bought 10% CDR. With 40%CDR you would even be able to cast the ability 100/6≈16.67 times which is a damage increase of 66.7%. So definitely no linearity here. This is why one could say that "CDR scales well" since from this dps perspective you have increasing returns.

Ability Haste:

In some sense Ability Haste is mirrored to what we discussed above. Again we have our damaging ability with 10s cooldown. If we buy 10 Ability Haste this means that we will be able to cast our ability 10% more often, if we buy 20 Ability Haste this means that we will be able to cast our ability 20% more often. What this means is that where originally you would be able to cast your ability 10 times in 100 seconds after buying 20 Ability Haste you can now cast your ability 12 times. So the damage you can do in those 100 seconds (or more generally your dps) increases by 20% with 20 Ability Haste. And in general you get 10% more dps with this ability for every 10 Ability Haste. So 10 Haste means 10% more dps, 20 Haste means 20% more dps, and so on. So unlike CDR, Ability Haste scales linearly with your ability dps. So one could argue that Ability Haste is more "balanced" if you will. But if you look at the downtime of your ability in seconds, Ability Haste only offers diminishing returns here. In our example 10 Ability Haste means you can cast the spell 11 times in 100 seconds. So our new cooldown is 100s/11≈9.09s. With 20 Ability Haste you would have a cooldown of 100s/12≈8,33s. In other words the first 10 Ability Haste give you approximately 9.1% CDR, the next 10 Haste give you only an additional 7.6% CDR and the ones after that give you only an extra 6.4% CDR. You can see the trend.

Personal take on what is "better"

From the point of game balance/allowing more variety in builds and things like that I can definitely see Ability Haste being the preferred option since it seems hard to balance around CDR (as suggested by the increasing returns discussion above). However, from a player point of view definitely think Ability Haste is more difficult to understand than CDR because in my opinion the way it functions does not align with the way we typically think. Let me give you an example: Imagine in your local supermarket your favourite product is on sale. Let's say instead of 30$ it costs 30% less now. What would you think? To be honest you would probably buy it without thinking anything. But if you would, the first thing anyone would do is probably calculate how much money you saved. Here you saved 30$*30%=9$. Not too bad. And this is basically how I assume most of us think about cooldowns when buying CDR. But thinking of it the "haste way" would be the same as saying something like "Since my favourite product costs only 21$ now I actually get 1.43 times as much value as before (because 30$/21$=1.43)" or "For the old price I can now buy not only 1 times my product but even 1.43 times." I'm pretty sure there is hardly anyone thinking this way. And this is why I feel Ability Haste might come across a bit unnatural to some people.

tldr

Ability Haste is like "Attack speed for abilities". 10 Ability Haste lets you cast your ability 10% more often, 20 Ability Haste lets you cast your ability 20% more often and so on. If you are bad at math and want to convert from CDR to Ability Haste or vice versa here are the two formulas.

https://preview.redd.it/syg2bq06gaq51.jpg?width=515&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb2c8b8ae379ac4dedab4f0610ab113ea068d024

External link →
about 4 years ago - /u/RiotAether - Direct link

My personal take is one of the subtle hurdles with switching from CDR to Haste will be that even though you want them for similar reasons, the way you think about them in your builds is pretty significantly different.

For a decade, we've thought about CDR in terms of a cap. If you care about cooldowns, 40% CDR is a clear target you really want to hit, but once you do, you don't want more. It also makes tradeoffs between items clearer, in terms of "I can't get all these items because then I'm overcapped, which ones will I take?" Crit is the other stat that works this way.

Now though, we'll think about Haste like Armor and MR. You can stack AR/MR infinitely, the literal exact number isn't monumentally important, and more is always better than less. I don't think most people think of Frozen Heart as "the 110-armor item versus 115 or 105", but rather as "the highest-armor item", "the AS-slow-aura item", "the armor item non-mana tanks feel sad about", or other qualitative statements. Buying FH also doesn't mean you should stop buying other items with armor because of hitting a cap. I think the paradigm around Haste items will shift in this direction, but it'll take time.

(Sidenote: Similar to how once you've stacked a ton of AR/MR you should pivot to Health for more EHP, you'll eventually be better off building AD/AP instead of more Haste for more DPS.)

The exception where numbers do matter: Any ability that had a CDR breakpoint ("25% CDR gives Karma 100% Ardent Censer uptime on E") still has a Haste breakpoint. Once you know the new number (it's 34 btw) though, Haste doesn't make it harder to understand how to get there via your item purchases. You still do the same build puzzle-solving of "which items will get me to 34?"

All this said... to bridge the transition, some useful numbers to think about are:

  • At 25 Haste you have 20% CDR (Eg. rushing a Lost Chapter upgrade)
  • At 67 Haste you have 40% CDR (Old cap)
  • At 100 Haste you have 50% CDR (More than the old system let you have but pretty build-warping)

Those references put a spotlight on OP's linear vs nonlinear comparison, but to restate the point of this rambling, thinking of Haste as "what's the equivalent CDR" is IMO a transitional question that will stop being asked when folks are no longer running the before/after comparison in their heads on a game-to-game basis.

about 4 years ago - /u/Porosite - Direct link

Originally posted by Gfdbobthe3

That sounds like good feedback to give on the PBE reddit.

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotAether - Direct link

Originally posted by IsleOfOne

This way of thinking makes perfect sense for one’s own itemization.

But what about when it comes to identifying an enemy’s cooldowns? I can press tab, see their items, and know how much AH they have. But in order to know how long my window is to abuse Zed after he uses his W? Now I’m having to divide by decimal numbers, and even for a mathematician, that’s significantly more difficult than multiplying by 0.1/0.2/etc.

The enemy’s high-impact ultimate has a base cooldown of 40s. He has 35 ability haste. What’s his new cooldown? There’s certainly no way to find the answer with a simple “mouse-over,” as has been suggested when considering one’s own cooldowns.

The argument that AH is aligned with how AS works misses the mark. An auto attack is by nature lower impact than an ability. There is never a reason to know or care about an enemy’s attack speed—the only one who might care is that enemy himself. Plus, this type of scaling makes excellent sense for attack speed, which is thought of and displayed in the form of attacks per second. Cooldowns, however, are not thought of in the form of “casts per second.” That would be the exception (in the case of purely damaging, rapid-fire DPS abilities), not the norm. No, cooldowns are thought of in units of seconds.

Ability haste makes sense from an itemization perspective. I think it destroys the previously-rewarding habit of knowing and tracking an enemy’s cooldowns. And I think the parallels to attack speed are exaggerated and misinformed.

If anything I think it becomes a shade more knowledge-rewarding because of needing to know those conversions. You gave 35 as an example; because of the Karma E case I did above, I know that's about 25% CDR, and from there I can do the cooldown tracking math of Zed W like you mentioned.

I don't personally like that as a skill test, mind you, but I think it does count if we're trying to figure out if Haste adds a skill test or removes one.

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotAether - Direct link

Originally posted by LegendaryHooman

So the cap is 100...

I think it's possible to get more than 100. I haven't looked at full builds yet.

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotAether - Direct link

Originally posted by bensimmonsismydaddy

Having to memorize a conversion chart seems like a worthless 'knowledge reward'.

I agree which is why I said I don't personally like it. I honestly don't think the knowledge reward thing should even be a serious consideration for or against a stat change like this because the impact of changing what items can or can't allow champions to do is so much more important it's like comparing the ocean to a drop of water. But as long as we're asking the question of "does this impact the skill test of cooldown tracking" (which again is not a worthwhile question to ask IMO because there's no world where the answer should impact whether we make the change or not), my take is this makes it harder and therefore more of a test, rather than easier and therefore less of a test.