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What are your thoughts? Even with their abysmal spring split, MSF on D tier is sorta troll. Also assuming the tiers themselves are't ordered. If it is, then Vedius thinks MSF are the worst team in the LEC. Not sure about that :P. Personally think they will have a much better Summer - how far? Not sure, but surely something must have changed. VIT above FNC and SPY too? Hmm questionable.
External link →So I'll get in here early and use this as an opportunity for anyone to ask me questions about the list. I will comment on the two things most people are probably curious about.
Is Misfits 10? And why are they D tier? - No, they're not 10, but I did put them low down. The list isn't ordered from 1-10, they just happened to get placed like that. I put them in D Tier because I believe they have 5 players that struggle to agree on how to play the game. We saw them attempt multiple styles during spring and the only one that worked was getting bot lane ahead and snowballing, and even that wasn't reliable. While they've made internal changes, I can't assume that they've all suddenly found alignment and agreement on how to succeed as a team in what has only been 2 months with no consistent scrim practice. I also don't think the current meta suits them, which leads me to the next question.
Why is VIT above FNC and SPY? - Based on what we saw at MSI, playing through your solo lanes seems to me to be the best strategy for winning league right now. Especially when you get your mid laner ahead. I simply have a lot more faith in Cabo and Jizuke than I do in the mid and top of FNC and SPY. FNC and SPY's biggest advantages come from their jungle and bot positions, which coming into the split I don't expect to be the strongest positions. Vitality also stated that they had a lot of health issues internally which affected their end of the split and playoffs pretty dramatically, let's not forget they were 2nd for the majority of the regular season, and with a bootcamp in china I expect them to be feeling good and looking strong coming into Summer.
How high of a ceiling do you think rogue has? I'm assuming C tier is their starting point and with all those rookies they could improve massively ovee the course of the split.
I agree! Larssen and Inspired have a lot of potential, but they're a very new roster coming into an experienced league so we'll see how much growth they can make in their first split. The players I'm expecting a lot from though, I think Larssen could fight for top mid spots by the end of the split.
I can agree with about most of what you said on misfits, but how high do you think they can get if they find this "alignement and agreement" ?
On paper, they could go really far, but honestly I don't know. I think Hans Sama has the most potential on the roster but it's difficult for me to believe in this team right now
To your point about playing through mid and top being the best way to play the game, that was known since last Worlds. And while Jiizuke and Cabo are beasts when on form, Nemesis and Humanoid are coming off a very promising rookie split, and I expect them to be even better. And while on that, you seem to be forgetting, that the best way to get your solo lanes ahead is through the jungle. Both Broxah and Xerxe are 2 tiers above Mowgli, so I'd say the difference evens up in this case. Moreover Vitality has yet to show they know what to do consistently, when not having a huge lead going into mid game. They are all over the map looking for skirmishes for most of the game, often throwing leads because of that. Fnatic and Splyce have much better macro. I just can't see Vit being a tier above Fnatic or even Splyce, unless the game ends at 15 minutes and we're checking stats of solo lanes to determine which team has won. And even then the only clear advantage for Vit is on the top side.
All of your points are great ones and good reasons for why FNC and SPY could be above VIT coming into the split. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, that's just not my current expectation. I will say though that I think it's important to remember that Vitality sat at the top of the EU standings for like 7 weeks of the split. As you mentioned, consistency was their biggest issue and they explained that a lot of that was due to their internal health issues. Maybe I'm giving them too much benefit of the doubt, maybe I'm not. We'll find out I guess!
Based on your rankings and your reasoning, I assume that you think playing through solo lanes is the way to go and I agree. But do you not think that it is possible to play through bot and have top/mid go even, considering (in MSF case) that the botlane is the strongest side for a team?
Yeah I think it's possible, just predictable. I think we saw at MSI multiple ways that you can deal with a bot lane focused team. Good vision control and pressure in mid mean it's easier to control the bot side of the map than just having a strong duo bot lane.
So Vedius, would you not agree that it isn't only about having strong solo laners but also about understanding of where you are strong on the map and playing towards that? And isn't Vitality a team that is notoriously stubborn and usually has a very liniar "win condition" (namely having pressure around top lane). I can name you a few crucial mistakes that Vitality has that would prevent them from entering my top 4.
1: They are a terible baron team (I think you understand what I am revering to)
2: Vitality has strong players, play on the same page with each other, but have very poor macro (mostly revering to playing towards the win condition their comp was drafted for and playing out a teamcomp properly).
3: The other good teams (like Origen and Fnatic) have a stronger understanding of their win conditions and what to do with leads or how where to use their strong side when behind.
Those are some (very generic and not to detailed) reasons I think Vitality has to be below Fnatic and Origen at least.
Not sure I'm bought into the linear win conditions argument when Fnatic drafted teamfight comps literally every game. They'd have a pushing bot, they'd save counter pick for top to try and get Bwipo a winning matchup and then they would play to teamfight. They had one style that got heavily exposed by Origen and is largely why they lost so hard at Rotterdam.
I think based on last split Vitality have a lot of flaws, but during the regular season the team was actually very good, sitting in the top spots for multiple weeks before crashing and burning towards the end and getting washed in playoffs. I think the meta will really suit them coming into the split, we've seen creativity be rewarded and a team that can play hard and fast around their solo laners will find success early in the split, which is something I believe Vitality will be good at.
vitality isn't above fnatic and splyce even on a good day
that team only exists to hard smash early games at the start of the split and then struggle heavily against any opponent that's either not going to play like a monkey against them or any team that will just choke them to submission past 20 minutes
i am willing to fight about this and i'm not even a fnatic fan
They were above them for most of the regular season last split, so objectively speaking that's not true. I'll agree that there's a lot of evidence to suggest that in a bo5, Vitality would lose to these teams, but we're not talking about bo5, we're talking about beginning of the split bo1, so I'm pretty confident in Vitality.
Just to be clear, I don't put either Fnatic or Splyce above Vit, I just don't think the solo lanes of Vit warrant them being a tier above either Splyce or Fnatic. Personally I'd drop all 3 teams somewhere between A and B tier, as all of them have very glaring issues they need to fix. Vitality need to clean up their macro game, Fnatic need to start playing around solo lanes more (when they started their run in the 2nd part of the spring, they started great, but with each game they were shifting towards bot lane more and more, and at one point you'd see Nemesis roaming bot like 3 times pre 10), and Splyce need to be more confident in themselves, and stop relying so much on 90-10 plays, because those are becoming mythical creatures in the current meta, especially since they are GREAT early game team (Xerxe is a monster), something that not a lot of people pay attention to, because of how slow Splyce tend to play their games.
This is fair, I agree with this :)
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