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Everytime I encounter this build I get literal PTSD from S6 days where Ekko and Fizz could build Triforce into Sunfire, deal more damage than their assassin build counterparts while being more tanky than tanks.

Frostfire Senna is the same bullsh*t, you literally remove all of her weaknesses and she gets to fully harass you from very long range, deal decent damage and scales very well while not having squeeshyness anymore. She's literally frontlaning for her team ? Turns out you can't punish her anymore. Or by the time you try to reach for her, she already dealt a good chunk of your HP because ofher tank build + grasp + her scaling damage & range thanks to her souls.

Nerfing the chemtank meta is something good. Stridebreaker might be on the works, but don't leave that abomination of a build for too long in the game because it's clearly worth a permaban until changes are made.

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Originally posted by Any-Championship-804

For reference to anyone keen on downvoting this guy, first-item Frostfire Senna has a sample size of 82k games and a 54% WR. Generally speaking, the highest first-item WR of champions is often around 51%-52% and only nears 54% if the champion building it is strong or has insane synergy with the item. E.g. Stridebreaker Darius and Garen are 53% WR.

Frostfire Senna is crazy to put it simply. I doubt its going to get nerfed though. There's a number of champions like this and Riot basically never touches them until everyone begins abusing their best item. E.g. Urgot and Hydra, Katarina and Protobelt, and Talon and Goredrinker. Actually, yea, she probably will get nerfed within the next 3 patches because Frostfire's PR is spiking on her.

To be fair, if I look at the current support pool I can very quickly identify multiple examples of champions with a higher/same win-rate than Senna+frostfire on current patch:

  • Leona chemtank 56
  • Sona Shurelya 55.8
  • Bard Locket 54
  • Thresh Shurelya 54

So it's not quite as severe as you're representing it to be, but it's definitely picking up steam and if it represents itself as a larger problem than it is so far then I'm sure it'll be addressed one way or another.

Originally posted by [deleted]

[removed]

While I appreciate your feedback, I do play the game fairly often and any more would cut deeply into my personal time so I keep it (relatively) light.

My coworkers work extremely hard every day to continue to provide the best gameplay experience they can to our millions of players. I hope you (and other people with similar thoughts as you) can find the decency to respect us and recognize that these are human beings you're insulting on the internet over a video game.

Originally posted by Arraysion

Great!

Let's nerf support.

I used support just as the most adjacent comparison, but because I already have Lolalytics up:

Top

  • Wukong Trinity 54%
  • Garen Stridebreaker 55%
  • Urgot Stride/Frostfire 55%
  • Kled sunfire 55%

Jungle

  • Shaco Liandries/Kraken 54%
  • Amumu sunfire 54%
  • Xin Zhao Shieldbow 54%

Mid

  • Galio Night Harvester 55.7%
  • Rumble Protobelt 55%
  • Zilean Ludens/Liandries 54%
  • Anivia Ludens 56%

ADC (It's a little tough to find these since marksmen spike after 2+ items traditionally)

  • Sivir Duskblade 55%

TL;DR: Overall this stat is not a great measurement of the strength of a class/role.

Originally posted by Soulsek

You know who is also slipping past everyone? Samira..She will be the number 1 pick/ban in MSI.

Funny you mention that, I actually wonder what she will look like as far as pro priority goes. She's sitting at a comfortable 51% win-rate, I wonder if that's enough for pros to pick her up. The game has seemed to move away from her style of marksmen though so it's a real toss-up.

Originally posted by Youre_all_worthless

im here wondering why you havent nerfed leona yet when shes been top 4 supports consistently for so long, often the best support

I don't make the decisions on what we buff/nerf, but I will agree that I personally find her to be getting a bit stale with her being at the top of the support pool for a while.

Originally posted by DJShevchenko

Spoiler, she won't, not while Varus is slowly becoming a contested pick in the meta

Yeah I also have a hard time seeing her take priority over other historically strong pro-play marksmen, but only time will tell.

Originally posted by Scrambled1432

If Hecarim/Udyr remain the norm and there's no tanks top she might see play. It's hard to imagine she has a higher priority than Jinx, Kai'sa, Trist at the moment. I could absolutely eat my words as dive comps become god tier again, though.

With Kai'sa the premier "Dive-buddy" marksman, Samira would have to be pretty good to take that role I think.

Originally posted by FruitfulRogue

Since you're talking champs with crazy spikes, does Taliyah have an item like that?

Like how MF has Kraken slayer, yet no one wants to buy it on her for some reason.

No one plays Taliyah much so unexpected builds pop up a lot less.

Good question. It's a little tough since her play-rates are pretty low across the board, but it appears, glancing at the data, that Ludens remains her best mythic (hello move speed), with Horizon Focus/Rylai's being some interesting/unexpected legendaries she can pick up midlane with good win-rates. The caveat here is that there's only like 5k game sample size for each of these (poor Taliyah) and I'm not quite data savvy enough to know where the sample size is large enough to reliably draw conclusions from.

Originally posted by OrionGaming

Thanks for the honest replies and insight! Curious on your personal opinion of the newest lulu buffs on pbe? If you're able to answer that, that is.

Sure, obviously completely personal (not reflective of my company's stances blah blah blah), but I've found Lulu to be very average right now in the meta and historically she can sit at a slightly higher win-rate without it being a problem (a-la Jinx). With that said, polymorph is my personal least favourite part of Lulu so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the buff doesn't mean more casts on enemies and instead means more casts on allies.

Originally posted by pda898

Isnt it more correct to compare fasting Senna to ADCs? She is picking up ADC items, she is fulfilling the role of "sustained damage dealer". The only difference that she give some farm to enable her support more early (and due to soul giving gold - not that much in gold equivalent).

My impression (I may be out-of-touch) is that the frostfire build this post is about is played largely as a support in conjunction with a marksman/mage bottom laner. I have personally yet to see a Frostfire Senna "fasting" with a Tahm or something similar.

As for the fasting "adc items" Senna, that is actually 4% lower win-rate in SoloQ. In pro it's definitely much more effective, but it's no secret that SoloQ win-rates don't translate 1-1 to pro.






Links in this thread

Riot Ray Yonggi - Summoner Stats - League of Legends
Riot Ray Yonggi / Master 39LP / 90W 75L Win Ratio 55% / Aphelios - 13W 12L Win Ratio 52%, Sivir - 17W 7L Win Ratio 71%, Jinx - 12W 8L Win Ratio 60%, Samira - 11W 7L Win Ratio 61%, Caitlyn - 9W 8L Win Ratio 53%


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