[2020] URF would be a funner, more fair game mode if all players started at level 3

Originally posted by RaphtotheMax5

Yeah starting level 3 would help a lot, a ton of champs are super gated until they get all their abilities

Originally posted by TheeOmegaPi

Beyond the issues outlined in the parent, I think it's worth noting that having 3 available at the start means a much less "un-fun" few minutes of the beginning of laning outside of the top lane fiesta. Being a melee champ solo at mid against a Syndra/Lux is absolutely miserable when only one ability is there for me. Malphite is a great example of this: If I'm going solo Malph mid (because top and bot have duo premades), I have to make a decision in the form of:

1. Do I want waveclear with my E to ensure that I can possibly level up quicker/get some more gold? OR

2. Do I want some poke with my Q so that I can chip away at my opponent and prevent them from snowballing but miss out on gold?

An instant level 3 would give solo melee laners just a bit more tools for their kit to compete against control mages who wield near-infinite lockdown.

Originally posted by Whattahei

Please don’t listen to the monkeys on reddit complaining that their favorite champs sucks at level ONE in a fun mode.

Originally posted by Gulstab

I think the main argument here is comparing URF to ARAM which does start you at level 3.

The two game modes are oddly similar in some ways. They’re both generally played to be fast-paced or quicker games compared to SR. They both de-emphasize CSing and favour brawling it out. Now ARAM tends to have a bit more nuance in that you try to time your engages with ally cooldowns vs enemy cooldowns because it’s theoretically a permanent 5v5 and your skills aren’t on insanely short timers whereas URF can be XvX depending on tons of factors and fighting any chance you can is seen as optimal because there’s little repercussion for blowing a (normally) big ability.

The other major differences between the two being ARAM is always on a single lane map with no meaningful objectives outside of structures but has access to a 40s~ engage skill to break stalemates and allow certain champions to not feel awful; while URF has access to the cannon, short cooldowns and respawn timers, and no linear objectives assuming the average game doesn’t just push one lane every time.

Perhaps the EXP and gold issues are valid reasons against it but the more dangerous level ones shouldn’t be a drastic difference. It puts both teams on equal ground in the sense that neither team has a more powerful single ability determining the outcome of early game while also just being ridiculously more fun by erasing the tedium of getting to level 3 hoping that you get it before or at the same time as the enemy laner(s).

Could you imagine going back to ARAM pre-Howling Abyss when you had to wait to hit level 3 and finally get to contribute to the game? Maybe the enemy team has a lot of poke or hooks while you’re stuck with close range targeted mobility skills or a single 10s skill that doesn’t even compare in distance to theirs. Hell there’s still a minority of champions who don’t feel meaningful until level 6 on ARAM!

I think if pick!URF is going to continue to return in the coming years it would be worth at least experimenting with a level 3 start. It just lets you get to the fun part of the game faster!

Originally posted by PotmArrows

What are your thoughts on Samira basically playing Urf all the time in SR with the exception of her W cd lol

Originally posted by alphiebot

I really appreciate you taking the time for a full response! I definitely agree that the kill count would spike hilariously, and you're going to end up with massive characters arriving in lane with a full complement of tools to abuse their lead. I do think the gold/exp rewards for killing level 3 champions could be tuned even further downward, but that might break player expectations and leave players feeling shortchanged when their score doesn't match the expected reward.

But I disagree on the value of the level 1 fights- it's a kind of problem solving that's perfectly unique to URF, and something that definitely evolves and balances itself as a micro-meta evolves, but I don't think that's best for the general player experience right now. There's a possibility that the balance and playtest teams (and to a lesser extent, PBE community) are more experienced and knowledgeable about the general power levels and tactics, so they're reporting a more fulfilling experience than someone who just wants to play the hyperspeed version of their main.

Metatextually, I know player counts spike during worlds as inactive players return or seasonal players return to their migratory nesting grounds, and I don't know if that kind of depth is going to be as fun for them. There's a lower- I don't know how to say this, but "ranked anxiety" but for League as a whole. Coming back after a long break is sometimes emotionally taxing, trying to catch up with the meta and champion changes so you're not a burden on your team or a target for abuse. URF, and rotating game modes, are a "lighter" experience, which I think is invaluable given the universal anxiety in the state of the world. I think there's more value in reducing that crystallized knowledge burden.

If a fed enemy is abusing you with their three abilities, I think there's at least an understanding and fairness to that spectacle. Their power matches their identity- Maokai's more than just sapling artillery, Akali is more than an immobile DPS lawnmower. At least you're getting smacked around by a familiar face.

I agree that it's possible to communicate to your teammates to back down from the toplane brawls, but I think it can be emotionally draining as well. I think there's some evidence here of community frustration with the current state of brawls, but also plenty of people interested in preserving the ritual of the thing (which I am 100% for! if that wasn't entirely clear). I love that idea of dumb rules we all obey, but I don't find the experience fun when I'm playing a character that's at a distinct disadvantage level 1. When tower hugging is unilaterally the best choice for the character I want to play, and my teammates are positioned to railroad over the enemy, there's an inherent frustration and conflict involved. I will absolutely feed my ass off if the rest of the team is fighting, but it's more for moral cohesion and keeping everyone happy than any strategic reason. I truly think we could all use some more levity in our lives right now. There are other avenues for players to puzzle away, suss out personalized optimizations- in TFT, in the upcoming item rework, in the primary SR experience.

I fully admit that my opinion here is skewed by my personal frustrations. Honestly, my main motivation here is that my brother and I have had a hard time finding a game to play together since he moved away, and I'm having trouble convincing him to play League again because he becomes frustrating for all the reasons I've mentioned. But I would really, really appreciate a hard Riot brain-trust group thinking session on the potential merit here. Really- thanks for taking the time to respond!