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The recent proposed Ivern changes seem a bit odd, I feel the champ is in a good spot balance wise but the idea of a jungle support focused on control/counterjungling just does not appeal to a very wide player base.

More importantly, Ivern's dash on his Q is an important part of his kit, when ganking from outside a bursh ivern will dash directly on top of an enemy, and any jungler can tell you how important that kind of positioning is for ganking and for ivern specifically as his shield needs to be closer to the enemy to hit them. Making him always ranged would effectively reduce his dash range in many situations (as it brings you in range of the target) and seemingly reduce his skill ceiling even further. Removing daisy's micro entirely is a separate issue, but a nonsensical one as daisy will basically already will fight on her own if you don't press any additional buttons past R, however using daisy to scout for targets and as an additional target for your E is both useful and very fun and it seems like they want to remove it just because getting the hang of it takes a few games.

I feel like the change to his range and not making the connection between his dash distance and his range suggests they aren't personally playing the champion much, so that's my feedback as an ivern player. I think most ivern players are already happy with the champion, so if riot wants to open up his playerbase to those who might be discouraged not immediately understanding his playstyle they should look for ways to incentivize new players to control vision (clearing an enemy jungle camp gives vision?) and perform counterganks.

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about 5 years ago - /u/RiotSquad5 - Direct link

I'm having trouble understanding this argument. Ivern already compensates for his range on his dash for his E. He's always done that. Good Ivern players also almost always have their range buff, and so this should change very little for them outside of removing the annoying case where they stay out of brush for slightly too long and screw themselves over.

That aside, if problems were caused by the range change we can easily adjust and compensate for it. The whole point of testing changes for such a long period of time is to discover those potential problems.

Also, hopefully to spread the info a bit, I've already confirmed I wont be removing Daisy being controllable.

about 5 years ago - /u/RiotSquad5 - Direct link

Originally posted by Shadowarcher6

It’s a difference between early and late game.

Early game being melee and dashing onto the camps makes clearing much faster and allows you to go over walls.

When you’re ranged you can’t necessarily go over every wall. Hence a lot of players are suggesting that you always go up to the target as if melee.

Also I assume you can’t just make Ivern always ranged without some sort of trade off, will that be lower W on-hit damage or where is the power going to come from?

Side note: please allow him to properly queue Q dash and passive. Right now he’ll do it for a second, fail, and then you have to wait a couple seconds before you can try again.

Dashing to camps should always treat Ivern as melee ranged already (though there may still be cases where he gets stopped on walls but that isn't intended). Basically, all of Ivern's dashes are special cased to attempt to get him into the range he would like. Only allied dashes are uniform, since it would obviously be too much to take every champ into consideration.

He may need to be nerfed in some way to compensate, or he may not. Currently he's not a pro risk and is only strong in the hands of experienced mains. Imo we have room to buff him moderately without causing a problem.

To your side note, is that when you reactivate Q or when you click to dash? I almost always click and haven't seen that problem, but I imagine there could be some problem that arises from the repress.

about 5 years ago - /u/RiotSquad5 - Direct link

Originally posted by Shadowarcher6

I would definitely look at him not always being treated as melee when dashing to camps. I’ll see if I can repro tonight and get back to you. I know it only happens in certain cases.

I suppose it’s when I do the repress. I’ll commonly q to repress and then as I’m dashing I’ll click on the camp (with vision) and that behavior will occur. I’ll try to repro this tonight as well

Thanks, even that description is super helpful.

about 5 years ago - /u/RiotSquad5 - Direct link

Originally posted by [deleted]

[removed]

One of my goals is to rescript her entirely. It's tricky obviously because her logic is (at least from what I've seen) some of the most lengthy and intense scripting on any champion. Obviously you can see where that could cause bugs, but they usually lie in the combination of things that we actually do want, so I need to go back and start from scratch likely.

The one good thing is that I should be better at it by now.