[2020] The Dive | We are Part Owners of the Dive (Season 4, Episode 5)

Originally posted by a_lol_cat

I don't know what math Kobe is using to say that Orb/Morellonomicon is better than Void Staff until you get to 90 MR.

Break even point of 40% pen vs 15 flat is 37.5 MR. @ 90 MR you have 36 Mpen on Void Staff.

Maybe he was saying Gold efficiency per point of Mpen? Well at 1600 Orb gives you 1 magic pen for 106.67 gold. To get to the same value, of just Mpen, disregarding the health on orb and much higher AP on Void, a complete vacuum of gold cost per point of Mpen. Your target needs to have a MR value of 62 (62*.4=24.8 Mpen) then you take that vs the cost of Void Staff (2650g/24.8 pen = 106.85g per point of Mpen), so still less than the 90 MR value claimed.

Originally posted by hochmusiker

TL;DR: (in front because this comment is very possibly not worth reading in full) Morello and Void might be roughly equal at 90 MR if you consider total gold efficiency on both sides, but it would vary wildly from one game to the next. In most cases Morello would be more efficient so u/a_lol_cat is basically correct anyway. I just felt like going into more detail for no reason

I think he must have been talking about gold value, and also mostly about a full Morellonomicon. Once we're talking about gold value you have to start considering the value of the health that comes from Morello's. I'll leave out the Grievous Wounds passive in comparing the two but it's worth keeping in mind.

Morello has the same AP as Void, and although it costs 350g more, it has 801g worth of HP. You also left out Sorcerer's Shoes in your calculations. At 90 MR, Sorcs+Morello gets it down to 57. Sorcs+Void gets it down to 43.2, which is still about 13.8 less MR you're dealing with if you have Void Staff. So you're still correct in terms of raw damage.

Now we get a little bit into the weeds about gold efficiency overall, not just in a vacuum. Everything from this point is theoretical because it depends on everything else in the game... but in an average game Kobe may have been right. Maybe.

Consider that the opponent has to have 13.8 more MR in order for Void Staff to do more in terms of magic pen over Morello. Not accounting for completed MR items, that much raw MR amounts to just under 250g. Meanwhile, if you consider the gold value of Morello's HP being 801, minus the 350g difference between it and Void, you have an extra 451g in raw stats, and if the opponent has 90 MR, you end up having 200g more in stats than they do - but again only in a vacuum; with completed MR items it would probably be close to equal.

Again that last paragraph depends so much on the context of each individual game. I don't think Kobe was using 90 MR as a proven figure, but more as a theoretical baseline for gold efficiency. Depending on the game it can vary wildly and in most cases Morello would still likely be the most efficient.

Originally posted by hochmusiker

Oh hey it's really you!

Thanks for clarifying. Now that I see your source it makes total sense. I didn't consider max HP as part of it.

I love you, dude who thinks This is the same word as That, but is still able to wake up on time, so that should make up for it. I never doubted you or your alarm clock.

Thank you for reading my gibberish and caring enough to gather links and respond. You're a legend.

Originally posted by a_lol_cat

*total item gold efficiency

Gold cost per point of Mpen is still = at 62 MR with Orb v Void

I was coming from a evaluation of just the cost per point of Mpen. After digging I see where the 90 MR number comes from, it's just including stats other than Mpen, which I get now that's what you were referring to.

Appreciate the clarification.