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How about remaking it with health and mana for ap mid-range mages? It would be nice to give it a passive to restore health proportionate to mana cost like before. And a mythic synergy to grant additional health.

So sad there's no item for Ryze, Asol, Anivia or Kassadin etc. For the balance team, adding a new mythic item would be much more convenient than compensating all those champions.

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over 3 years ago - /u/phroxz0n - Direct link

ROA (with a transformation mechanic) was a mythic for a few weeks in development. It was ultimately pretty unsatisfying as a mythic, due to the time to ramp up, leaving the player impotent for too long.

Our design goal was that there shouldn't be a "one mythic" for a given champion (there will always be a few champions that we can't achieve this on, but is the goal). This is one of the reasons why we're trying to unbind a few of the champs OP mentioned from mana, so that they can engage in Mythic choice in the system.

Some of the champs you mentioned are quite squishy without ROA, and that's a piece of feedback that we've heard and considering how to respond to. Everfrost and Non-Mana AP Mythics with some health should theoretically be an option for some of the champions that used to buy ROA.

over 3 years ago - /u/phroxz0n - Direct link

Originally posted by Snowchugger

Our design goal was that there shouldn't be a "one mythic" for a given champion

No offense, but saying things like that makes me think you fundamentally misunderstand game design?

There will always be an optimal build and players will always want to find it.

The only way "more than one mythic option for any given champion" will ever be a thing is if said champion can flex between two roles - e.g. a mage played mid and a mage played as a support may choose different items.

Other than that it's not like it's a "situational choice" as to whether that mage builds Luden's or Everfrost or Protobelt. One of those options will always be strictly better.

There will always be an optimal build and players will always want to find it.

I think this is true to some extent, but it doesn't mean that you can't strive for it. Pragmatically speaking, we know that there will be some hard bound champions, because we can't make double the number of Mythic items due to complexity of the game.

To push back on your point a little bit, I would argue that in a lot of cases, where players think things are optimal, there is actually a hidden build that is competitive, waiting to be discovered. In the best case scenario, the newly discovered build doesn't take over the old build, but is situationally as competitive. We see this in many games, not just League.

To give a League example, the AP items that were changed in patch 8.4 took almost 2 years for Pro players to discover that there were builds other than Ludens -> Morello -> Sorcs on champions like Orianna, Syndra that vary based on the game state. There was a high AP Seraphs Spellbinder Deathcap build, or a more one shot oriented GLP Spellbinder build. We had originally planned these builds out, and knew they were strong internally, but they just took a really long time to catch on; but that's part of the fun of being a theorycrafter and discovering new builds. I don't think you could argue that there was "an optimal" build for Orianna on patch 10.22. Sometimes your composition needs "scaling" via Archangels Gathering Storm, Cosmic Insight, sometimes it needs "spiking power" with Biscuits Scorch, sometimes it needs pick potential with GLP + Spellbinder.

To use a post preseason example, if I was Soraka on Live patch and playing against a bunch of bursty champions, Moonstone might be a worse choice than Locket. By contrast, if I was Soraka playing against a bunch of DPS oriented, but not bursty champions (eg. tanks), Locket may not be as useful and Moonstone would be more beneficial in the longer fights. I wouldn't say one of these options is always better, I truly believe there to be a situational choice here.

Having said all this, I'm not going to argue that we have succeeded in creating choice for all champions, but I will say that we've made a meaningful stab at it and will continue to try to improve on it.

over 3 years ago - /u/phroxz0n - Direct link

Originally posted by JostiFrank

Have you guys ever considered or tested anivia being able to reactivate her W to remove the wall even if its with a delay. I used to play a lot of anivia and i feel like it would make her a lot more forgiving and pleasant to play. It feels really bad being unable to do anything if you accidentally f**k a team mate over with a botched wall.

We've definitely considered it, but quickly decided against it. One of the underrated aspects of league is that actions have consequences. You can teleport into a situation but it may turn out badly and you die. You can flash in to kill someone but actually put yourself in a worse position or flash into a wall.

There is a strong design theory that actions that carry high reward and high consequence can be more satisfying in the long run. This doesn't mean that we shouldn't give forgiveness on spells, but generally speaking consequence tends to be a good thing for player mastery and longevity of the game (I can always get better at doing this difficult thing). When a player masters and can reproduce a difficult thing, it is on average more satisfying than reproducing something that is more forgiving (see frame perfecting qss).

Oftentimes, feeling bad over poor execution can Ignite the drive to improve (eg. If I had just placed that wall a little better, I might have lived, so I should practice my walls for next time). I know I get this everytime I die to a jungle gank which makes me want to study enemy patching and ward timings better so I don't die next time ;)