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Riot the new objective bounty system seems perfeclty balanced.

In the 21 minute blue team had 6471 gold lead

In the 23 minute red team had 2534 gold lead

9400gold in 2 minutes


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10 days ago - /u/phroxz0n - Direct link

So just for context, I looked into the game. The ahead team started a 50/50 Baron that got stolen and the team got 4 for 1'd. Their Mid got solo killed in the side lane. Losing team pushed 2 lanes and killed 3 turrets.

The total swing was:

  • 1650g Objective Bounties
  • 1400g Champion Bounties
  • 2250g Champion Kill Gold
  • 1850g Turret
  • 1500g Baron
  • 750g Farm

This set of events with Objective Bounties was 9400 and 7750 without them. I'm definitely open to other opinions here, but personally, I don't think this is unreasonable and the bounties didn't change the way the teamfights or Baron encounter played out.

I do think in this particular case that the bounty may have lingered for too long after the losing team equalized the game (and something we're looking at addressing), which may be off.

However, I'm of the opinion that if you do a giga throw at Baron with a 6k Gold lead when you were significantly advantaged, the game deserves to be equalized. (It's not even like the game was over at that point; it was still roughly even with a 15 kill Yi and an 8-1 Ezreal). Now you would just have to prove that you're the better team after the game is equalized again.

10 days ago - /u/phroxz0n - Direct link

Originally posted by AdamovitsM

Agreed. One thing I have to say tho is that the new bounties make it a lot more worth it to trade objectives. That’s a pretty bad feeling when you’re ahead.

I do think that's true, but that's also the primary counterplay as the losing team. One valid playstyle from behind is to play keepaway and annoy the enemy team by constantly splitting them up (think 2019, 1-3-1 G2).

It's definitely a bit different to the ARAM playstyle that people have been used to playing; ahead teams need to be a bit more vigilant about pushing out side waves; having good vision, collapsing on lone split pushers (who are making themselves vulnerable as they are definitionally behind), etc.

Objective Bounties have a pretty strong teaching element to them (show both the winning team and losing team points of interest with the highlights), especially for newer or lower skill players. I'm pretty confident that the community will learn these things and improve their coordination over time; the initial shock of a particular piece of content dropping that changes gameplay is always painful, but we're quite confident that this feature improves the game in the long term.

10 days ago - /u/phroxz0n - Direct link

Originally posted by kale__chips

However, I'm of the opinion that if you do a giga throw at Baron with a 6k Gold lead when you were significantly advantaged, the game deserves to be equalized

I might be the minority here, but I completely disagree with this line of thinking. The advantage of having a big 6k gold lead (compared to smaller 3k lead or less) should be that you have buffer and room to make mistakes before the game got equalized.

To say that the game deserves to be equalized after a single "giga throw" is not something that I'd consider to be a good thing by any means. Note that I understand 1650g objective bounty is not the main/only reason for the equalizing. But it is worrying to me if the idea being pushed is that the game deserves to be equalized after a single mistake. This would most likely lead to pro teams playing more carefully to avoid throwing and we'd be back to boring games where teams are scared to be proactive and make plays because the punishment is huge.

There are different degrees of mistakes. For example:

Moderate Size Mistake: If Yi and Ezreal gave away their champion bounties and they lost a turret, they are still 4k gold ahead in that scenario and the 6k gold lead gives them that buffer.

Extra Wide Mistake: Starting a risky Baron in a bad position, flipping it, getting punished, then all getting chased down, losing all bounties and 3 turrets.

I'm not saying that if you make a mistake the game should be equalized, but if you make an enormous mistake, then yes, in my opinion the game should be equalized when the lead is only 6k. If the lead was 10k or more, then yeah, sure they still have a buffer even after an enormous throw like this, but that wasn't the case in this game.

10 days ago - /u/phroxz0n - Direct link

Originally posted by kamparox

Do you guys plan on making the metrics public ? This will stay a point of frustration for sure if you don’t. Not knowing the exact metrics on champion bounties is fine because you can kinda guess. But my ass being 1/3/4 in toplane and seeing my barely alive t1 towers all light up with 480 gold bounties all because (seemingly) my mid is 7/3 is kind of hard to gauge and also a giant kick in the balls.

It's mainly that we don't want players paying too much attention to optimizing the thresholds (eg. inting when close to thresholds to get a bounty; even though that's a net negative play)

For now, we've decided not to show it as it's meant to correlate with a player's intuitive understanding of how ahead or behind they are, even if they don't know the exact formulas. We're not quite hitting the mark on that, given how often bounties are triggering when players don't feel like the bounty team is that far behind. And there are some other edge case states that we're looking at resolving (eg. if a losing team has Dragon Soul, it is being valued too highly by the system).

10 days ago - /u/phroxz0n - Direct link

Originally posted by bz6

Any chance you can make bounties not last till losing enemy is ahead?

It’s rewarding losing.

Yep, there are some changes being worked on to:

  • Not have bounties trigger when a team is only lightly behind
  • Not require a losing team to claw back so much of the lead until the bounty falls off