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Just feels pointless if they aren't going to update his model.
(Yes I know, the updated model is his ultimate, haven't heard that one a million times)
Just feels pointless if they aren't going to update his model.
(Yes I know, the updated model is his ultimate, haven't heard that one a million times)
As I've mentioned countless times in multiple platforms, including on every single previous VFX update boards post, these updates do not influence or change any plan we might or might not have concerning VGUs or any other updates/changes.
These are passion projects we're doing on our free time to try and improve the game for both the players of those champions and their opponents. Improving gameplay clarity and reducing overall noise is our main objective.
Dislike the change to the shield. The hexes were like a turtle shell pattern. Now it's just some lame... full coloured green sphere with brief hexes
I'll see if I can tweak the shield a bit. This is a very simple damage shield with no special effects, so we're trying to keep it simple, as it should be.
Giving VFX to a champion that needs a VGU. Feels like an absolute waste of time and money.
He absolutely needs a VGU, I agree. But these updates are personal passion projects aimed at improving gameplay clarity and reducing overall noise in the game. They do not influence any plan we might or might not have for future updates or VGUs.
his new W looks so much worse, it's just a wierd green sphere instead of the hexagonal one we have now.
I'll see if I can slightly tweak it. As mentioned in another comment, this is a very simple damage shield with no other effects, so we want it to stay what it is: simple.
Do not get discouraged from the grumpy reddit comments RiotSirhaian, people don’t know the inner workings of how the design team operates. Just remember that we appreciate all of these improvements!
Oh well that's too late, I am highly discouraged already.
And this somehow disqualifies their (and my) opinion that it ultimately feels like there isn't a point to it? You can add all the buzzwords and reasoning you want to it but they're such minor and somewhat questionable changes, and over the board they're not even all better (turtle stance)
As I've mentioned countless times in multiple platforms, including on every single previous VFX update boards post
I'm sorry man, but not everyone is going to notice, even if you feel like you're saying it a million times.
I absolutely do not feel these are useless, but you have the right to your opinion and I respect it.
Okay so two things here..
You are telling us Riot employees are working on VFX updates in their 'free time', without being paid (and yes, that's what 'free time' means, if you're being paid for it it's not 'free time' is it?), and you expect us to believe this?
Assuming we do believe this, which is frankly pretty ridiculous, you're now telling us that a company worth over a billion dollars is not paying their employees for work implemented into the game because they are 'passion projects'?
Lastly, let's say this is all true, VFX updates have no influence on future VGU's, does that not strike you as just plain incompetent? Why bother doing an extremely minor update to a champion before a major one? it just doesn't make any logical sense, and neither does your response
We've always said these updates are passion projects. It's always been the case. We do this because we care, that's literally all there's to it.
Sorry if it doesn't make sense, I guess?
It must feel like a bummer trying to help out a character on the side. Makes it feel like its better to just leave a character alone than have to deal with people constantly complaining about any new additions. Thank you for the hard work!
This is exactly how I feel right now. Not sure I'll make more of these if this is the reception it gets.
I get its a passion project but shouldn't that passion have been put into his model? It goes back to the days when riot was just 5 guys in a basement 13 years ago. It might be time for an update
I..... I can't do models? I'm a VFX Artist. I do VFXs.
'Passion project' is a meaningless buzz term when you are using it to refer to work you are being hired and paid to perform. That, in combination with your claim that you're doing this in your 'free time', is just straight up misleading and embarrassing.
We all know you're getting paid for this, and if you're not, well there's something seriously wrong at Riot
Some people can be passionate about stuff at their workplace and just... you know... do stuff on their own to try and help?
Please save your sanity and leave this thread. There is nothing but ignorance in here.
I care too much to leave. I must understand what went wrong.
I think in this case people wanted a large cake to eat, and you tried your best to help out in the mean time by sharing some of the frosting. Sadly some people are too hungry to appreciate what they are getting. I dont think you should let it get to you too much. If anything for next time try to gauge the audience a bit closer, as the udyr players are super on the savage side. Like I said before I appreciate the work your putting in and I hope you didn't get too discouraged from what others have said.
Its also important to separate yourself from the work that you believe is correct and must be done (such as clarity for the opponent on abilities) vs what a portion of the leaguw audience wanted (a complete vgu that you couldn't provide on your own).
That seems like a very good summary of the situation.
Ok well does it not bother you that you basically did the equivalent of putting glitter on a rusted out beetle and entered it into a car show? While making the vfxs did you bug anyone else to fix and improve what you couldn't?
The issue is that we never set the expectations for this update as a complete VGU. We always said it was just updating his VFXs to improve clarity. We ALL know he needs a VGU. Sadly doing these take a long time and a lot of people. Updating VFXs can take time, but only requires one or two people at most.
How dare you not be the ultimate developer, go back to learning to do 3D models while practicing for voice acting, then for your writing classes and coding training!
If only days were 128h-long
I mean making the animations bland obviously isn't gonna be taken well. The old W and R both had way more flair to them than just a bubble and an orange cone. Just like Blackbelt Udyr now having the bear stance model while in tiger and turtle (which hopefully is a bug ?).
I think people have nothing against small visual effect updates just that "dumbing down" animations and removing what makes them unique on a champ that already doesn't have much going on doesn't seem great.
The blackbelt udyr is a bug, yes.
I'll simply disagree that they are more "bland", but you are free to believe that.
You can add some doritos here and there, reddit loves memes.
I actually kept the same kind of shape just to make sure we never truly lost the doritos feel.
That would be awesome. I don't have skin in the game, I played udyr a few times and enjoyed him, but he's not my main or anything. I did love the pattern on the old shield though. Everything else makes sense. The Phoenix fire changing to reflect when the damage is done definitely makes sense. But like the other user said, the pattern on the shield looked cool because it matched the shell.
I can try to bring that pattern back a bit.
It seems like you have probably never had a job that wasn't clocking in and clocking out. Most people on salary are given tasks and they take however long it takes to do those. Sometimes you have downtime or a lull while you are waiting for someone else to get something to you. Working spontaneously on something during that time instead of goofing off on Reddit would be a "passion project".
Thank you for understanding and explaining it so well.
I think what's happening is redditors seem to have a different perspective on the whole Udyr thing.
It seems from a lot of redditors perspective they've been wanting an Udyr VU for years now and it's always fallen on deaf ears now that something is finally being done towards Udyr's visuals (his VFX) it ignites the issue of his VU again and how frustrated people are that he's been left in this state for years with no change in sight.
And when they see all that's being changed is a simple (not tyring to diminish your work <3 using simple in comparison to a full VU) VFX update they get frustrated all over again and see it as just polishing a turd, you can polish it all day long but at the end of the day it's still a turd and nothing is being done about it.
Is it your fault that there is no VU planned for Udyr? of course not but unfortunatley as a representative of Riot regardless of your position you face the force of it.
In my opinion overall your changes are well intentioned and needed but I understand for a lot of people it would just feel like the minimum amount of effort from Riot on the clusterf**k that is Udyr's visuals, keep in mind I said Riot not you, because that's how people view this, when you update his VFX people don't see it as your passion project although it is people see it as "Riot refusing to give him a VU so instead we get this?"
And of course you're not Riot nor as I said are you solely responsible for Udyr, but I hope you don't get down too much from people's comments, like I said this Udyr saga has been burning for years now.
I think at the end of the day most people that play LoL would be appreciative of your changes just that for a lot of them that takes a back seat to the burning desire for Udyr to recieve a VU.
The whole thing surprised me tbh, but I definitely understand it. And even better now thanks to you. Really wish I (we) could have done more, but the scope was sadly smaller than most seemed to expect.
Plz add Mountain Dew shapes too. TY.
Hahaha if only I could, I definitely would. :')
It pains me so much to see this thread. I can see your passion and deep frustration... I'm sorry. That I have complained before (not about this exact topic but some other stuff that was rooted in my ignorance to try to Listen and understand how Riot works) and that something that you love is pulled into the dirt like this. Thank you for trying to make us understand - it must feel like fighting against windmills a lot of the time, but I think you do suceed provoke a lot of understanding, or at least some thought about a topic that is so easy to critisize in passing. But so much harder to do. 💜 Thank you for all the love you put into this game, and all the joy you give us.
<3
i think the phoenix effects are much more clear visually, but the turtle shield not having the hex pattern is a bit of a downgrade.
That's fair! I'll see if I can bring back some of that turtle feel in the shield.
Just slow down time, obviously.
If only I had a Hyperbolic Time Chamber...
Also keep in mind Reddit has a loud voice but it's a fraction of the wider global LoL community, the SkinSpotlights video has as of now 90k views with 5.3k likes and only 334 dislikes so a lot of people like it and that video is another fraction of the global community.
So, I hope that makes you feel better about it, on a related topic though, do you have any idea why Riot is so reluctant to give VU to really old champions models, like Udyr and Gragas and others?
Oh yeah I definitely always keep that in mind!
I'm not part of the VGU team, so I'm not really sure, sorry!
/u/RiotSirhaian I think you did a really nice job. I really like the look of the new Turtle Shield, the color looks great and it’s sleek. I think this did a lot for him even though the model isn’t the best.
Thank you! /me cry
how come Riot hasn't build one of those yet? Tsk tsk tsk, just sell one of the mansions made of gold, you guys.
I think we'll need at least a couple million lux prestige skins for this.
Always keep in mind that reddit is the vocal minority. Often the negatively minded minority. Happy jolly people are usually too busy having fun with the game to come to reddit. (Which is why you guys always do polls through the client itself to get unbiased data, right?)
Honestly, guys like you who love doing projects like these could really benefit from a social media buddy who scans all the social media posts and filters out the nonsense and collects the actual constructive feedback.
I know a lot of youtubers do exactly this. They have people who read the comments and filter the crap so that the actual content creator can respond to the good stuff and get useful feedback.
I'm not sure how this passion project of yours is set up, but maybe there's a colleague who can pitch in and be the neutral party who can read these threads and pick out the useful and encouraging stuff.
At the very least, if you do read these posts, basically ignore any post that has a one line reply. If it's not actually well thought out feedback, it's completely useless. "Oh this sucks" is not relevant feedback because these people will likely write the same shit on every single thread they post in no matter if the update is done by you alone or 50 guys with a 10 million dollar budget.
That is a very good idea but even if it takes me down from time to time, I think it's useful for me, both to develop a thicker skin, and to get as much feedback as possible. :)
Wait, so you guys aren't even getting paid or ordered to do this?
We're absolutely not required to do this. Think of it as a group of friends working on this in-between projects or during lunch.
KogMaw passive update when?
oh god, the sooner the better
So I asked this on twitter too, but does your vfx changes include auto attack timings too? Ahri AA always felt to me slightly off, so if you can fix that or make her vfx better match the take off (when the projectile leaves and you can safely move without canceling it) and damage timing, I'd be really thankful.
I can't change their timings, sorry. :(
This is generally done by design, not VFXs.
Question - Do you know if Udyr's old shield graphics was just a recolor of the old Morgana black shield? I always suspected it was.
I can't tell for sure at 100%, but I really would not be surprised!
In case you missed it /u/RiotSirhaian please double check his Black Belt skin to make sure it changes from Bear stance like it should. This video had an obvious bug in that skin when it didn't change to Tiger and Turtle stances. Thank you.
Yup, working on fixing this! Definitely a bug. :)
We appreciate the effort! It's just that it's obvious at this point that Spirit Guard Udyr is considered by many the actual VU for the champion.
Would be nice to hear from you guys how do you think the problem can be approached when the time will come for his real VU. Do you believe it will be the very last character of the "old ones" to be updated?
I really wish I had more context on this, but as I'm not part of the VGU team, I can't really help you out on this one. :(
I really like this work, thanks.
However if your goal is to improve clarity and reduce noise then please have a word with the skins team. The old riot philosophy of keeping silhouettes consistent and abilities immediately recognisable across skins seems to have taken a backseat with the 1350 skin standard of the last few years. I don't play that much these days to keep track of all the new skins, so on a few occasions I have flashed abilities from my own teammates or failed to react in team fights because I just don't recognise what is flying at me. And tbh I don't think knowing all the skinned abilities at a glance should be a required skill in the game. Maybe that's just me though.
I'm part of the Skins team! We are aware of this and trying our best to get better at maintaining readability, especially when it comes to VFXs.
I am on a journey for thicker skin too. 💙
Hahaha good luck :3
I sincerely hope you don't take any of these stupid complaints to heart. Every VFX update has helped bring old champions into a new modern light and they are very much appreciated by the silent majority. Tryndamere, Thresh, Annie (i mean idk if you worked on those specifically but), like, the effects all look like if the champions were made today.
Your work is super appreciated and I hope you aren't discouraged. Keep up the good work!
I did work on these specifically yes! Really appreciate the kind words. It can be tough to dissociate work from self-worth, but trying my best not to take these too close to heart. <3
Man, thank you for this and being active in response. I can’t wait to test this out on the rift myself. Knowing you do this in your spare time for the love of it always make me happy, and I appreciate all the hard work.
In thanks, I present to you the jingle my friends and I made for ARAM Udyr:
“Come on Udyr, SHOW-ME-WHAT-YOU-GOT, Aaa-rawrrr~ Aaa-rawrrrrr~”
Now he’ll look even prettier showing us what he’s got!
Haha as an avid ARAM fan, I love this! I'll remember it the next time I play with or against an Udyr. :)
https://i.imgur.com/PEc564Y.png
99% sure it is
oh god yes, seeing them side by side is a big giveaway.
Just want to say i miss the old Zyra passive.
I don’t think a champion with a passive that is only on death is good, because it almost encourages death or is useless otherwise, but having a two part passive would be great.
I remember Riot looking into zyra reviving if she kills someone with her passive. That would have been amazing. As it stands, her rng seeds are pretty terrible and rng is never a fun game mechanic
Oh I forgot about that, I kinda miss it too.
Hey there. I know I'm some random dude on the internet but I really like the VFX update and thanks for doing this for all of us. I really like the new turtle and phoenix forms in the default skin!
Thanks, really glad you like them!
I’m gonna reply to you again in the same thread. I truly appreciate everything the teams at Riot do. The game has evolved over the course of 10+(?) years and has gotten better in almost every way.
I understand that some changes rub some the wrong way, or that some patches/game-states mean more to certain people over others, but damn.. League has remained as popular as ever and still brings me and countless others joy every time we boot it up no matter how often we may “complain” about it.
The art design team or VGU team or however it’s divided up at a Riot has consistently improved over the years. You guys really make the universe more immersive and the gameplay more fluid/addicting/precise/clear all the time.
I don’t regular the forums and only visit this subreddit in bursts so this is the first time I had heard that some of these VGUs are literal passion projects from the individuals at a Riot. That just reaffirms my positive regard for the people that make up Riot and work on improving League in every aspect.
Just want to let you know that I appreciate you and all that you do for the game and how much it means to me that members of Riot really are just as passionate about League as the players. You’re amazing!
This means a lot, thank you so much for taking the time to write this.
I'm so sorry /u/RiotSirhaian for the treatment you received by the players as you try to deliver new things on your own time out of your own passion for the game. Even while I do not play Udyr personally, seeing your work on both his- and Ahri's effects I felt breathed new life into the character outside of skin(s). While also being far easier to read than before for newer players (playing with, or against these champions respectively.)
The fact you even take time to contact the concept artists to make sure the effects for each spell work for that character in appearance speaks volumes of your care and I don't want that to ever be lost!
I don't know what the voice of one will do, but there are those that appreciate your work! Though are perhaps more silent, like I am, or we get drowned out by those loudly protesting over their precious. Though never forget your work /is/ very much appreciated, even if it's hard to find support in the midst of everything else.
Please don't let this bring you down as you continue to work for Riot, I wish you the best for your future work/projects.
I don't have much to say, but thank you. This means a lot to me. I know a lot of you care about these updates, at least as much as I do. It's hard to confront negative feedback, but it's also super valuable. I don't think I'll stop, but this definitely made me aware of the passion players can have for their favorite champs. :)
That's a 10/10 improvement
That makes me very happy! Thanks!
I know its been a real struggle dealing with these kinds of comments I wanted to say thanks I really have enjoyed these vfx updates the clarity improvements are awesome and its made me go back to many champs I haven't played in a long time. Thank you for that in case you don't hear it enough. A small note it might be worth seeing if you can get this clarification about VGU priorities put in an "Ask Riot" article I know not everyone will see that but it helps cut down on misinfo a bit and other redditors will end up linking it to help as well in the future. I really hope some of us can convince you to keep making these updates the negativity is from people who don't take the time to read how candid Riot is about a lot of the development of the game compared to most companies. Thanks again for these!
Thank you. :)
That's a great idea! I'll ask around if that's something that can be done.
Well thanks for letting me know that it is also for clarity purposes. That makes my opinion on the work drastically shift. I am sorry I jumped to conclusions. You probably already said it in a post and I skimmed over it. Sorry again if I misrepresented the situation. Going to edit the original comment to make sure people that may not read yours see that the VFX do have a purpose. I'm glad you are active enough to let me know my comment was misguided by frustration.
No problem at all. :)
I like the change! Nailed it!
Really glad you do!
