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I'm seeing a lot misinformation, and misunderstandings. There is also a lot of information that might not be known to people currently, so I thought I'd write this post.

You are not forced to buy a Mythic item first.

If you feel like there is a better Legendary item for your first item, buying that and then the Mythic second might be better. You also don't lose out on the extra stats that Mythic items give, since those are only added for each Legendary (Mythics aren't considered Legendary).

Basically, don't just think "oh I must buy a Mythic, because the item is a Mythic", instead just think what items you want, that might actually be a Mythic, but don't just buy it because it says it's a Mythic.

You can buy more than 1 Doran's item (sort of).

All named passives are now Unique, if you ever read people say you can only buy 1 Starting item or 1 Doran's Item, they meant that the passives don't stack, you can still buy as many as you want.

Doran's Blade is weaker on Auto Attack based carries, but might be stronger on AD Casters.

While now you only heal for 1% of damage dealt to minions, you heal for all physical damage dealt, including abilities.

Doran's Ring gives about the same amount of mana as it currently does on Live.

The new Doran's Ring gives you 6 Mana every time you kill a minion. In 30 seconds an average of 19/3 (6.333... or 6 and 1/3) minions spawn. Assuming you get all CS you will get 38 Mana per wave (or every 30 seconds) = 1.266... Mana per second, this is the maximum possible and over 4 minutes will give 60 more Mana. But you will almost never get every single last hit. You need to get 79% of last hits to get the same amount of mana, and if you get 90%, then you will have 34 more Mana, barely 1 more spell cast over 4 minutes with incredibly good last hitting.

But it does give 3 HP per last hit to manaless champs, which is nice.

Critical Strike Chance is a lot easier to build, but it's also less effective.

There are tons of items that now grant Crit, most ADCs will have easy access to 100% crit while also building stats like Life Steal [Bloodthirster], Armor Pen [Lord Dominik's Regards] or even having QSS [Mercurial Scimitar] or Grevious Wounds [Mortal Reminder]. The difference is that Crit now only deals 175% of your AD instead of 200% of your AD.

All Legendary Items are now Unique.

Something new Riot recently added. Basically items can now be Unique. For example Infinity Edge both and Guinsoo's Rageblade have "Unique: Crit Modifier". This means that you can't have both Infinity Edge and Guinsoo's Rageblade in your items.

What Riot also just did was to make every single Legendary item Unique, meaning you can't have two of the same Legendary item.

Finally, items such as Lost Chapter that only built into Mythic items have "Unique: Mythic Component" which shares itself with "Unique: Mythic", meaning that if you have a Mythic item you can't buy any items that are only Mythic Components. This means that you can't build a Mythic item such as Luden's Tempest and then decide to just buy and hold onto a Catalyst that gives 10% Omni Vamp.

Tear of the Goddess should not be considered a starting item.

TL;DR: If you want Tear early, Cheater Recall (two vids explaining it) to buy it, don't start with it.

The new Tear only gives 150 flat mana and nothing else. No HP, no AP, no AD. That is lower than a Sapphire Crystal (250 Mana). The moment you come into lane with a Tear, a competent player will make sure you either get bullied out of lane or force you to use up all your mana and deny you any good backs. You don't get reduced mana costs that the current Tear gives, and I believe (haven't tested) that the mana you gain is just the stat and you won't literally have more mana by casting a spell (this is how Manaflow Band works [tested], which makes me believe that Tear might work the same way), so you will have problems in lane by building it.

The analogous situation on Live is buying Tear before Pickaxe on champs like Lucian and Twitch.

What the new Tear does allow you to do though is start with another starting item and then Cheater Recall after crashing in the 3rd wave. Assuming you got most of the CS you should have at least 400 gold to buy Tear early. You might argue why not get Tear and cheater into another item? That is because if for some reason you aren't able to pull the cheater off, you are then stuck in lane with a Tear.

The Sightstones do not give you free Control Wards.

This item was probably misread as one might wonder why you would pay so much gold for it then. There are a few things this item does that will help supports out.

  1. After placing 20 stealth wards (including trinket wards) it gets upgraded allowing you to place up to 4 stealth wards and 2 control wards.
  2. You are able to hold up to 3 control wards instead of 2.
  3. When the support is full build, they want to keep an open slot for control wards, but this means that they also have reduced stats. Instead they can purchase the Sightstone which the final upgrade is considered a Legendary item (giving Mythic stats), having 40 Ability Haste and 10% extra Movement Speed.

Liandry's Anguish and Demonic Embrace built together isn't OP.

I believe this is due to a misunderstanding on how much damage Liandry's Anguish does, as it says 4% max health over 4 seconds, but a lot of people might have read it as 4% per second, regardless I have read that building these two items together is OP, which it actually isn't.

Currently, assuming you build Rylai's (it's a fine assumption as many champs build both, and we are talking about a combination of two items), Liandry's Torment will deal 2.5% max health damage per second do enemies, if you fully stack the madness passive that become 2.75% max health damage per second.

Demonic Embrace does 2% max health damage per second and Liandry's Anguish does 1% max health damage per second, which is a total of 3%.

Considering that Demonic Embrace is 3000 gold and Liandry's Anguish is 3400 gold, that is a total of 6400 gold. Currently you only need Rylai's (2600 gold) and Liandry's Torment (3100 gold) for a total of 5700 gold. 700 Gold less and you also get a slow, since the previous build doesn't have Rylai's. Which now takes me to my next point.

Liandry's Anguish isn't the replacement for Liandry's Torment, but rather Demonic Embrace is.

The only common thing that Liandry's Anguish has with Liandry's Torment is that they are both AP items that burn. But Anguish gives no HP and the burn itself is a low lower than Torment, instead giving a lot of mana and ability haste while costing 300 more gold. Demonic Embrace gives 350 HP (50 more than Torment) 90 AP (15 more than Torment) and costs 100 less gold. The burn is stronger when enemies aren't slowed or immobilised, but weaker when they are. It also gives Armor and MR when you burn enemies still going by the idea that this is an AP bruiser item.

Basically, champs like Singed and Morde that don't care for mana, but liked the burn want Demonic Embrace, whereas battlemages like Cassio and Ryze most likely will prefer Liandry's Anguish as it gives mana and Ability Haste, which will increase their DPS. There might be an argument that Luden's Tempest might just be outright better due to the low CD passive that also gives a lot of movement speed, but I haven't done the math and I am uncertain how much they'd prefer MS over ridiculous amounts of Ability Haste, MR Shred, and some burn.

Stop assuming that item bugs are part of the item.

When Navori Quickblade Yi was shown, everyone went crazy as to how OP yi would be when the items get released. As if they would release the item without it being Unique. The same thing happened with Thornmail, and now the item is unique. Also the Bramble Vest passive doesn't stack anymore.

Another bug was one with twitch and Duskblade of Draktharr where Twitch wouldn't become visible again after damaging an enemy made everyone go crazy as to think that is how the item would be released.

People were also complaining that the shop had no stat filters and how and how the old shop was better because it had them. As if Riot themselves didn't say that they were releasing the items and shop earlier than usual, what we were seeing was pre-beta, not even beta.

Finally items and champions WILL have to be played unbalanced before they can see what is unbalanced to balance them. That is what Pre-Season is for, and before you go ahead and start talking about Riot's Balance Team I will refer you to these few videos [1] [2] [3]. I suggest you try to think before you start blaming, and maybe even testing some things before just outright share something as if you are certain of it. If you aren't, just say you believe that is the case or just say you haven't tested it, while also giving a reason as to why you believe that.

External link →
about 4 years ago - /u/RiotPhlox - Direct link

Originally posted by Rexsaur

The first point might be true but you would be crazy to not rush a mythic item.

Most legendary items got nerfed compared to live while mythic are stronger than an average legendary item on live.

If you're playing a champion that has no good mythics to rush you wont simply rush something else, you'll instead just play another champ that can actually get a mythic first.

We assume most champions will want a mythic first because of efficiency and power of the active/passive but there will surely be times on specific champs you'll end up rushing like a botrk or demonic embrace or whatever instead because it synergizes with a kit or against an enemy champion

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotPhlox - Direct link

Originally posted by Ashtana

I thought Demonic Embrace got removed?

It's not in practice tool because of a layer manager issue :L

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotPhlox - Direct link

Nice writeup my dude, am hoping people continue to dig into the new items and systems and explore what's changed and give feedback on it. Its really fun from my end to read all of this stuff [even the rage clickbait videos :^ )]

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotRayYonggi - Direct link

Sick analysis, glad to see people picking the system apart more deeply even before it hits live servers.

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotPhlox - Direct link

Originally posted by bazopboomgumbochops

Hey Phlox, I'd like to mention one thing that I think is worth considering re: new mage itemization.

When playing some champions like Xerath, building Luden's virtually always leaves the casters with ~10 HP if you're building normally. Even if you prioritize AP first and heavily delay boots, the minion hp keeps scaling alongside your damage and leaving it just outside your threshold until you get fed.

It ends up making it feel really, really bad to play just in general...unless you build Liandry's.

The problem is that, while it does help differentiate the two. It feels bad that Luden's damage proc applies to the melees instead of the casters, when you were already going to use extra abilities to kill the melees, but didn't have more for the casters.

For example: Xerath Q hitting the full wave but proc'ing Luden's on the melees and leaving the casters at 10 hp each. It feels really, really bad, and makes Luden's feel almost like a troll item compared to Liandry's . . .

Rather than requesting AP value changes, is there any chance that Luden's could be programmed to specifically proc on the lowest absolute (not %) HP enemy hit, if proc'd on multiple enemies simultaneously?

So cases like Xerath's Q or a Ziggs R across the map -- if they hit the whole wave, then they'd prioritize proc'ing Luden's on the casters to help kill them.

This single change would go a LONG way to help mages feel more modern and help stifle the assassin roaming meta. Ziggs has the exact same issue, with caster HP just BARELY outscaling your Q damage. It feels like something that's only overlooked at all because its a problem for unpopular mages. Just a slight adjustment to Luden's to make it better for the poke mages its intended for to do the job they're intended to do would go such a long way in making the reworked mage itemization feel so much better.

Thank you!

Could see that, it'd be an interesting change. Fwiw its also possible we buff ziggs/xerath if theyre struggling a lot in the new world

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotPhlox - Direct link

Originally posted by Driffa

Are Anivia and Cassio on the watchlist?

They will be a couple of hundred mana down at 1 item, and at two items either several hundred mana down or a few hundred hp. And they lose Seraphs active, which is clutch for survival.

Also Anivia does not like Gale/Prowler terraincrossing feature.

Idk if you saw but Cassio already has some compensation buffs. Aniv is on the watchlist but haven't seen if she's weak yet.

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotPhlox - Direct link

Originally posted by Destroyer29042904

Question thkugh, are hydra items such as tiamat, ravenous or titanic sipposed to work on ranged champs or will that be changed?

We want to see if that interaction is OK in league, restrictions are lame if they're not necessary

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotPhlox - Direct link

Originally posted by Driffa

Also any plans for Ludens proc not removing Banshee spellshield?

It is so annoying that the only counterplay is not simply: "dodge stuff", but "stay 300 units away from anything that gets hit"

So i agree tbh but there's a lot of consistency violated if we did that. Would have to be a larger scope change but maybe?

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotPhlox - Direct link

Originally posted by GentleMocker

Any comments on the powerbump of mythic being so strong when compared to legendary/raw components? I've heard comments about snowballing being sort of adressed because legendaries after mythics being a lower powerbump therefore this sort of opening a way to come back into the game later on, but that's mid/lategame, heard nothing about how big of a bump you get from first mythic buy vs component/legendary and the early game being a race to first mythic > all inning on a person leading to a very snowbally earlygame.

Basically the worry I have is that there's a way bigger importance being put on early game /1st item spike fighting, and not even getting to the later stages of the game where item efficiency evens out for everyone around, leading to games being more snowbally and ending faster.

Definitely something we're gonna watch closely, its one of our big game health metrics

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotPhlox - Direct link

Originally posted by BlackCommando69

so why u dont like mages on bot lane :(((

? We love em. Turns out they're actually crazy strong (a lot are 55%+) but nobody wanrs to play them

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotPhlox - Direct link

Originally posted by Dracoknight256

Question: Where do we give feedback? I have few things I'd like to write up but I don't want to post it somewhere where it'll never be looked at.

Comments and decently popular posts on reddit are often read, LeaguePBE posts too i guess. Tweets work tho idk who to tweet at

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotPhlox - Direct link

Originally posted by JangoGamer

What about Vel'Koz? Could we see some changes to him?

Depends how he lands in preseason. Maybe? No clue

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotPhlox - Direct link

Originally posted by lukeatlook

Has anyone read into the "where's mana items for tanks" posts? This is a rising concern among some of the players. Triforce users got compensation buffs for the loss of Sheen, but there's a huge shortage of mana items in the tank lineup.

Definitely on the radar, not a ton of tanks were as bound to mana items as the fighters were. I think its one of those things that seems more egregious from the outside before playing, but also maybe we're off base here so its being watched

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotPhlox - Direct link

Originally posted by Physix_R_Cool

Heyo mate I don't really have specific feedback as I haven't gone on the pbe to try the new stuff out. But as a player of 10 years I am really looking forward to all these new changes. I think they are gonna switch up a lot things, which to me is good because it is gonna be kind of like discovering a new game. I don't really have a point with this, other than I'm really looking forward to the preseason because of the work you guys have done :)

<3 hope its a ton of fun

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotPhlox - Direct link

Originally posted by DeckWraith

Why is demonic embrace not available in the practice tool?

Bugged, I fixed it Wednesday then it got rebugged lmao

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotPhlox - Direct link

Originally posted by night3zz

Hello Phlox, Is there a feature that allows me to resize the shop?

Iirc we're looking into something like this for atypical resolutions

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotPhlox - Direct link

Originally posted by IsleOfOne

Have there been any internal discussions on jungle item changes? The following feels pretty bad:

  • No machete hurts champions like Kindred and Twitch’s single target clear speed by a large large margin.
  • Automatic smite upgrade is now time gated, whereas before, it was common for specific champions to buy the smite upgrade after their first back for increased invade/skirmish/gank power. These champions now have to wait until the 5 smite mark.
  • No more jungle-exclusive 1-item power spike. Junglers used to be able to build a complete item before any laner realistically could (barring super cheap items). It was an amazing power spike considering the low cost. With this being gone, it feels pretty bad trying to get over that early hump to reach your mythic spike on some champions.

Haven’t heard anything about jungle items since the PBE release, so I’m just curious if anything further is planned/being discussed.

Still monitoring the machete junglers to see how they are. Smite delay and so on is intentional

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotPhlox - Direct link

Originally posted by IsleOfOne

Thanks. Can you comment on motivations for smite delay and removing cheap 1-item spikes? Was some part of the gameplay unhealthy, or..?

Items were to open up junglers to the rest of the item system and actually allow them to engage in choice and not just statsticks. Its just more interesting to choose cool items than get stuck building warrior every game first.

For smite, it's all about ceremonializing the event and actually letting you invest in stuff you care about. Frankly people don't really like spending money to upgrade smite a lot of the time and now they get this cool way to get it rather than spending cash that could be longswords on smite. It also adds texture to the jungle as there's some small goal to move forward to in-game

about 4 years ago - /u/RiotPhlox - Direct link

Originally posted by IsleOfOne

Sorry for the spam. I guess to summarize my feelings on the matter (and those that I have seen from others who I speak to), it feels like the jungle item changes were a secondary biproduct / necessary evil in order to implement mythic items, rather than a first-order desired change in and of itself. i.e. that jungle items had to be removed because otherwise junglers would be screwed by missing out on first item mythics like everyone else, rather than jungle items being removed because they actually were problematic.

They weren't stellar and exciting design anyways. They were functional but not optimal, ya feel?

about 4 years ago - /u/Bellissimoh - Direct link

Super thoughtful and extensive write up.