Never realized how gold inefficient this item was.
It gives you:
15 AD
200 HP
And at max stacks it gives you +100 HP, for a total of 300 HP.
2 Ruby Crystals + Long Sword = 10 AD and 300 HP for 1150g, 50g less than Jaurim's Fist. Essentially stacking this item gives you +5 AD over their individual components.
Meanwhile Seekers is nearly 160% gold efficient at max stacks. Is this objectively the worst item in the game?
External link →Hi! This is an example of disingenuous, alarmist, bad math. Shame on you for giving it a 96% upvote ratio, League subreddit.
For reference, the item is just over 110% gold efficient at max stacks. Obviously the OP doesn't want to say that. Turns out not accounting for 5 ad (175 gold) on a cheap item is really meaningful. Who would have thought?
Armguard is also not "nearly 160% gold efficient" unless you're in the habit of rounding to the nearest 40%, which no reasonable analyst would. It's ~151%. If you had any goals other than delivering the most biased drivel possible, you'd probably say something like 150% gold efficient, but YOLO, I guess.
Jaurim's also stacks faster. 20 minions vs. 30. It's not a massive difference but it's there. It also builds into more items: Mallet, Sterak's, and Titanic. It doesn't really matter which item is better since you're just going to turn it into one of those above and I don't see anyone saying that Sterak's is the worst item in the game. So IDK, feels like a weird point to leave out.
The final point is that Health is a far, far better stat than Armor for the majority of the game. I ran math on early defensive itemization in the early game and found that even against the targeted damage type Health beats Armor per-gold in the first 10 or so levels in the game. Obviously this goes without mentioning that Jaurim's can protect from things like a Gragas gank when Armguard can't. See, Armor and MR are priced at a point that makes sense in near-endgame scenarios. The stat breaks even with Health fairly early on, but still only works against ~50% of incoming damage (assuming that true damage and % hp damage come in roughly equal amounts).
For example, the 300 health from Jaurim's Fist, despite being 800 gold worth of health, is a ~14% overall durability increase while the 45 armor from Seeker's, 900 gold, is ~20-25% more durability against physical damage on a typical level 18 champion. This comparison is far, far more pro-Health lopsided in the early game. Further exploration into health-vs-armor durability gets more complicated as you look into regeneration and penetration and so on, but in general this will hold true.
I don't blame OP for that last one. But the rest still reeks of heavy bias.
This was a super interesting read! Do you have any reading recommendations for how I could learn how to do this kind of analysis myself?
Health divided by health is an easy one. Just do ratios.
For armor and MR, just add 100 to both sides of the fraction (a champion with 0 armor and 0 mr is still "100%" durable against those damage types). Then just as before, simple ratios.
Just apply to your favorite champion's base stats, and voila.
Another point,having 2 swords and a ruby cristal uses 3 slots which sucks,versus the 1 this item uses.
Sure, but the post was specifically comparing Jaurim's to Seeker's. No one wants to build three cloth armors and a pair of amplifying tomes either. You're still right about slot efficiency, though :)
For reference, the item is just over 110% gold efficient at max stacks. Obviously the OP doesn't want to say that. Turns out not accounting for 5 ad (175 gold) on a cheap item is really meaningful. Who would have thought
I said 5 AD because everyone will compare it to Seekers which is more efficient upon purchase and gives a net +15 AP, +15 armor upon fully stacking.
Armguard is also not "nearly 160% gold efficient" unless you're in the habit of rounding to the nearest 40%, which no reasonable analyst would. It's ~151%. If you had any goals other than delivering the most biased drivel possible, you'd probably say something like 150% gold efficient, but YOLO, I guess.
I misread it as 157% when I made the post. You can assume all you want and call me biased but it was a honest mistake.
Jaurim's also stacks faster. 20 minions vs. 30. It's not a massive difference but it's there.
If it means giving more gold worth of stats, then I'd prefer Jaurim's Fist take longer to stack
It also builds into more items: Mallet, Sterak's, and Titanic. It doesn't really matter which item is better since you're just going to turn it into one of those above and I don't see anyone saying that Sterak's is the worst item in the game. So IDK, feels like a weird point to leave out.
Incredibly weird thing to say when people sit on Seekers. I wonder why no one does the same for Jaurim's Fist?
The final point is that Health is a far, far better stat than Armor for the majority of the game. I ran math on early defensive itemization in the early game and found that even against the targeted damage type Health beats Armor per-gold in the first 10 or so levels in the game. Obviously this goes without mentioning that Jaurim's can protect from things like a Gragas gank when Armguard can't. See, Armor and MR are priced at a point that makes sense in near-endgame scenarios. The stat breaks even with Health fairly early on, but still only works against ~50% of incoming damage (assuming that true damage and % hp damage come in roughly equal amounts).
Only at very very early levels. Not sure where you got your numbers. Funny how you say my math is bad while yours is incredibly lazy and the argument you're trying to make isn't valid either.
Level 10 Aatrox w/ Jaurim's Fist - We'll assume he has around 1350 hp (Base health + Dorans item), in which case 300 health would give him 22.22% extra durability against all types of damage.
Level 10 Orianna w/ 1300 Health and 46 Armor (Dorans health + 6 armor from Runes) - Seekers will block an extra 585 physical damage. Now unless you're going to tell me that the enemy Zed, Talon, etc. is dealing nearly half their damage in true damage it's pretty obvious which is better here.
Now, your argument falls even further apart when you account for even more health that any champion will have access to (potions, health regen, etc).
Honest mistakes happen. That's fair and I shouldn't have assumed your intentions. My apologies.
People sit on Seeker's because upgrading all the way to Zhonya's is not efficient. You're paying for the refreshing stopwatch cooldown, but you'd rather actually use the stopwatch first. Additionally, most midgame scenarios sees players build Fiendish Codex and not the Armguard if they're building one component on their way to a midgame Zhonya's.
Again you're not comparing apples to apples. I said armor is worse than heath per-gold early game. Comparing 900 gold of armor to 800 gold of health is not that comparison.
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