[2021] The mythic passives and stats of Night Harvester and Hextech Rocketbelt should be switched

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NH stats: 300 HP, 90 AP, 15 AH. Mythic passive: 5 AH per legendary.

RB stats: 250 HP, 90 AP, 15 AH, 6 magic pen. Mythic passive: 5 magic pen per legendary.

Almost nobody has built Night Harvester all season long. Its 1.2% PR is dwarfed by Rocketbelt's 4.5%, despite fulfilling the same niche of "AP damage item for champs that don't need mana". Because of the magic pen it offers, RB provides far more damage than NH even though NH was designed to be a pure burst item. Even Vladimir, who loves ability haste, is building RB over NH because it's just that much better.

I think the obvious solution is to switch the stats and mythic passives around -- this would bring both items more in-line with their intended identities, with NH being the burstier, pure damage item that enables multikills and RB being the utilty-oriented one that provides mobility and survivability. It would also force champs to choose between building more mobility or more damage, rather than just getting both wrapped up in one convenient item the way they do currently. I'm sure at least part of the reason Akali and Katarina can afford to drop Flash this season is because RB gives them everything they need, including yet another mobility spell in their kits.

It's been a full year since the item rework, and now that it's preseason it's the perfect time to start looking at these things. I know people currently have a lot of issues with items (like MR options and people being unhappy with Riftmaker), but this is one I haven't seen being talked about at all, and I'd love to hear what you guys think.

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almost 3 years ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

FWIW, the intent for Rocketbelt is that it's the single-target access item. It's meant to be the burstier "I'm going to get you" option. Its success on champion like Akali (who largely just get their one kill with E+R) speaks to this item doing reasonably well there. Obviously it also fits the "I just need target access at all" crowd, like Fiddlesticks, Singed, and Galio.

Night Harvester's goal is to be the long-duration teamfight reset item. It's why its damage is per-target and why its mythic passive is ability haste. It's meant to be the long-term one. As further evidence, Rocketbelt has a once-per-teamfight cooldown on its active and is never reliably going to hit more than one target. Thus I think flat pen would not make sense for Night Harvester's initial goal. If NH users are meant to eventually fight everyone, flat pen is not the stat for that. Haste does make more sense as an "I'll get to you eventually" piece.

Now that's not to say Night Harvester is hitting the mark. Any low pickrate item means it either was meant to be niche (Silvermere Dawn, the fighter QSS fits here) or it hasn't found its home among players. Seeing as how Night Harvester is a mythic, I'm betting on the latter. I do think with sufficient work done, NH can fit that role and it would be a good role to fit, especially if it can be competitive for champions like Fiddlesticks and Kennen who like hitting the whole enemy team as much as they like reaching them.

almost 3 years ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by amasimar

Night Harvester's goal is to be the long-duration teamfight reset item

So, where's the long duration resets? Right now it's "hit enemies once with 200 more damage and get negligible ms boost for a second", if it got reduced with kills/proccing multiple times in a short time then we could talk about resets, but right now it's only "deal more damage" type of mythic (really fits the narrative of mythics impacting gameplay xd), Rocketbelt gives you more damage output with only the passive Pen, on demand dash+ms to catch up with enemies

I’d argue the resets are just built in. Like imagine instead of 40sec per target it was just 40sec resetting on takedown. It’d hit that fantasy but just be weaker at the job it already tries to do.

almost 3 years ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by funslammer

The problem imo is that rocketbelt just outperforms nh in nearly everything. Magic pen, dash, aa reset, movement speed. The incentive of buying nh just isn’t there even with the damage passive against multiple targets. Imo the items are to similar and NH lacks a lot of bonuses which Belt provides.

Yeah that’s reasonable.

almost 3 years ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by hhhumz

Thanks for the detailed response. With regard to the goal of a "long-duration teamfight" for NH I might suggest adding a passive to it that rewards/encourages hitting different targets in a team fight. Instead of tacking on more damage (since I think most players will agree the burst from items is too high already), maybe it could give something like % CD refund on basic abilities, or giving increased AP or AH per unique target hit. Somebody can probably come up with something better, but these are just some ideas.

Technically that exists with the MS on hit but that may not be enough.

almost 3 years ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by butthurt-fanboy

Night harvester galio is staright up trolling

Maybe but Galio also isn’t really a “kill your whole team” kind of champion like Brand, Fiddlesticks, etc.

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