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Hey All,
Hope you liked this look at Zed boi. I'll try and answer some questions today if I have time.
Hey All,
Hope you liked this look at Zed boi. I'll try and answer some questions today if I have time.
These comics were amazing. Literally drew tears at points for me. i am really confused as to how this will end up tying into Kayn's lore though. I thought his in game lore has to do with him actually wanting to overthrow his master. Either way, thank you for the excellent story
So mostly this puts limits on how Kayn wants to take over the Order. I think both Kayn and Zed are smart enough to know at some point they are going to duel. Maybe to the death. Maybe this will be because Kayn has become Rhaast, maybe because Zed has become a nocturne like thing. Maybe just because they disagree. But that fight will be a duel. Not some underhanded backstab. Because Kayn believes in the honor system Zed taught him, and in his master's values. And ultimately because they do care about each other.
Thank you so much for this amazing story! I thirst for more though.... Can't wait for a spinoff of Shen and Akali escorting Jhin back to jail(if they can, heh).
PS: I have noticed the Kusho doll on page 22 as Zed holds Kusho's body three weeks later :)))))
Almost like someone knew this duel was going to happen.. and even may have intended it to happen as a first act.
Honestly I did like the Kusho twist, but felt that we didn't really get a lot of insight into his character, so I wonder if he'll be explored a bit more later on.
So I was wondering: Was Kushos turn to evil due to the shadow magic? Do you plan to explore him a bit in later lore releases?
No idea on later lore releases I don't make those calls. I think he was a corrupt a-hole before the shadow magic. (i.e. Having his son, Shen relentlessly beat up an untrained boy seems pretty cruel to me; ditto letting your son believe you are dead ) . But certainly the ichor exaggerates your worst aspects-- (it feeds and gives you power based on your your worst aspects) So its a mix.
First off, loved the series. Just sad it had to end. Because I want to see so much more of this saga.
So many questions. Lots more.
1) Zed has no master/patron now, but we see he's as noble as they come. Who will be his next commander? I can honestly see it being Karma, considering she's a de-facto Ionian equivalent to a shogun? I.E. a central leader of sorts? Otherwise, how does Zed take care of the logistics of running the order? Does he become a sort of Ionian-equivalent to a daimyo of Zhyun himself?
2) How do we reconcile "spooky cinematic Zed" (I.E. particularly the Xayah cinematic one) with the fact that the real Zed (Usan) is, I'd like to say, within spitting distance of being as noble as, say, Irelia, as opposed to being an irredeemable villain? We've seen so many "spooky edgy dark ninja" Zed cinematics, and that's just not who he is. How does one reconcile that nonsense with "Zed is a badass along the lines of Illidan and Itachi, willing to do what nobody else will if it means saving lives"?
3) Not sure if you're the guy to ask this, but seeing as to how Ashe got a major VO upgrade after her warmother comic (which was amaaaaaazing), will Zed, Shen, and maybe Akali be getting the same sort of upgrade? No more "I AM LEET SPOOKY NINJA" voicelines Zed in both LoL and LoR, but actually have them be more Usan-ish? Ditto Shen acknowledging his own struggles with Zed, searching for the truth about his father, etc.?
4) How will Shen ever find out the truth, now that Zed was forced to actually shank Kusho (or maybe kill the monster that Kusho became)? I thought it might have been Yevnai that would have wound up freeing Jhin for reasons b/c in issue 1, Zed said he killed Kusho. But as it turns out, Jhin all but blurted it out that Kusho freed him, at which point, Kusho ordered Zed dead (ugh). At which point will Shen find out, and bury the hatchet? I guess double that for little miss brat-ninja too?
5) If Zed just convinced Kusho to fake his death, what's that whole thing about the kinkou being cut down in Zed's attack? Shouldn't his order have been in on the plan to not actually murder other kinkou, like say, Akali's dad, who died in the attack? It reminds me of a Mortal Kombat cinematic in which Scorpion explicitly states "wound, do not kill". Yet we see in "the bow and the kunai" that Zed's order did a pretty hefty number on the kinkou. Did nobody get the message to pull their punches, like Zed has been doing...throughout the entire comic when dealing with Shen and brat-ninja (Akali)?
6) Just how much do other Ionian champs know of the whole fiasco with Kusho, and what do they know of why Zed does what he does? I'd think that Karma or Kennen might be able to clue in onto certain things. Who actually understands why Zed does what he does, so as to (relating to question 1) make sure his order can continue to function?
7) What about the whole angle of "Zed kills vastayans" thing? It seems Xayah/Rakan have an issue with people that look like they belong to the order of shadows, but it doesn't seem very in-character for Zed to be this brutal oppressor. Will we ever see what's going on with that, will it be retconned out, or what?
This is my favorite comic so far, you did an amazing job making Zed a tragic figure. Can you tell us some other beats you were pressured to change?
Mostly stuff that was cut for page count. Ultimately, this was a 20page per comic issue. Ashe was a 24 page per issue comic. Which I found much, much more manageable. Ashe still felt too short per issue. (God's how I long for an extra page or two for some of the fights in Ashe.) but 4 pages is a lot to lose.
Esp because I read more manga growing up than American comics (So my relationship to the medium is based on 30+pages per chapter). There was a lot of Akali scenes which were cut. Including a fight between Akali and Kayn. Some investigating scenes. A couple scenes that I cut or replaced because they would have been too hard to do with rating's restrictions. Three different scenes where Zed/Kayn were doing horrible stuff to monks and/or Vastaya. (In three different drafts... I tried to keep it alive.) . A couple flashbacks with Kusho... specifically one when Zed got banished from the temple for using the ichor while Yvenai and Shen watched helplessly (that was a deep cut). Two scenes which combined with other clues in the various issues created a little map based mystery where people to use the map to figure out where Jhin was going next--if they put together all the clues. Oh and three scenes across two issues where Zed was scanning the crowd looking for Jhin. And if you put the clues together you could figure out which face was Jhins. (Actually you could narrow it down to 4 faces) . Lots of stuff. Many drafts.
Who sets the page limit, and why?
Can you tell us about ratings restrictions scenes?
Also, why does Zed still have it out for the vastaya? I mean, everyone seems to love Ahri and her fluffy ears and tails.
And isn't the black ink a natural byproduct of harvesting magic, kind of like nuclear waste is a byproduct of nuclear energy?
Is there a reason that Zed insists on being a grouch to vastaya in the current day and age?
Marvel. 20pages.
Mostly just people Jhin killed (dead bodies) or people Zed and Kayn Killed (dead bodies). Even dead bodies are difficult with our age restrictions. This is a non-technical answer but in my experience at riot for some things we are pg13 but for most things we are PG max.
The ichor is a natural byproduct of harvesting (and damning) magic. It's not exactly like nuclear energy. Diffused the magic is strong and just sort of neutral. It's gonna do strange stuff... that's mostly just strange. Trying to force it or limit it into "good" and helpful magic means you end up with a negative or evil byproduct.
Hey Odin, loved the series overall. I think its the strongest out of any of the series so far. Could I ask why you decided to sorta reign in Akali a bit, since the way Michael left off with Akali, it looked like she was kinda done with the Kinkou and their complacency. And as a side note, are you able to share what you're going to be doing next since it'd be dope if you can work on another champ
Well.... in one issue. Akali had as many pages as Zed. She was a lot more fun to write than Zed. ( I actually only got into writing as a comedy writer, and it's still the most rewarding.)
I almost rewrote the whole series with her as the lead. But didn't...
I think, like the idea of Akali being a slighty younger character than Michae'sl version... and a bit more snarky and lower class.. My wife read a draft with alotta Akali and just said that Akali was very much me in my early twenties... And that made the idea if making Akali the lead feel... not exactly wrong... but self-serving rather than audience focused. (Shrug) It was an odd choice to make.
Just want to ask two questions I sent to you in message.
Would you say Zed guestimation during the fight to be factually correct? That Kusho had only dabble in Shadow Magic for a few months?
When was the flashback panel where Zed told Kayn to get close to their patron, in relative to the event we observed? My guess is somewhere in issue 1 2, but was it before or after Jhin attack?
Not entirely... he was guessing and kinda being intentionally insulting But he was correct that Kusho hadn't trained for as long as him.
Issue 1.
Hello, I like the comic but I have been disappointed a little bit in some things ... 1) the cliche. I hate edgys protagonists with unlimited powers that are invincible and are cool in everything. Before the comic, Zed scared me, now he is a fantastic hero that everyone loves. If he's ruthless or extreme, none of that was seen in the comic. Please, if you have an idea don't change it, I would have liked to see Zed killing vastayas. Even if everything remained the same, that scene would have made a huge difference. 2) Currently Shen should be on the verge of suicide, because committing suicide is what I would do if everyone abandons me and if the only person I trust lies to me non-stop (and Zed says that maybe will kill him WTF) expected that Shen and Zed be friends again, or that reestablishes the confidence of both, or something different. Why did all this happen without anything changing between them? Zed used Shen to capture Jhin, he did the same thing that Kusho did to him, use and discard him; In the end Zed says he tries to be a better person, but he just abandoned his friend, after lying seriously to him twice, using and discarding him ... I know that sometimes the characters are stupid in decisions to help a plot, but Shen not only seems weak and stupid, he is the eye of twilight and he does not do his homework well, he does not know anything. I know you said he is the hero of the story, and I also understand that the Zed comic is made for Zed, but what he saw of Shen does not leave him well, it hurts a lot because he is my Main and it means a lot to me. Hopefully in the future they do something with that. I know that not everyone can be happy, and I dont know how they made decisions but sometimes I feel that they did not understand what people perceive of the characters ... the public. I don't mean you, but do all the people involved know the fans? they play Lol? Do you explore the images, posts, writings, etc. that create your characters? what they think of them, what fascinates them, etc. At times it seems not. 3) Its more personal, but there is no gore and that makes me very angry. it is a story of war and death, there is no gore. 4) please, no more romantic plots, use those sheets to explore other important things. Do you realize that if you remove that, everything is the same? it is irrelevant. (I mean, Val and Kai's relationship was important in the Varus´s history, but here, what do we care about that nonsense of Shen's fiancée? ). 5) nothing more xD I don't know how to use reddit and I panic to post or comment, so sorry if it's not the right place. Thanks for everything, IM NOT ANGRY, I comment in the best way I can. I do not speak English. And I don't want someone to feel bad about what I think, after all it is the opinion of a fool. Thanks for doing Lore things for nerds like us, it may sound angry but I'm not, in the end I know they do it for a minority and I appreciate this. my criticism is for you to know, maybe you don't even read it, or you care, but I wanted express myself. Greetings, sorry for my bad language.
This is a bit hard to read... but I totally get english is your second language. However I suggest trying to use paragraph breaks in the future, as this really hard to read in one big block
---
I'm not sure I think Zed l lying to Shen was really a choice... and possibly it was the right thing to do. Even if Shen knew the truth, Zed and Shen are on different paths now. They will never be friends again... but Zed was still holding onto a false hope.
Zed decided it was better for him to be disillusioned with Zed than for Shen to be disillusioned with his own father. That's probably not fair, and maybe Shen has a right to know. But Zed is flawed... and blinded by his need to feel he's worthy and honorable.
Shen I think is a tragic figure in this comic... but that's because this is Zed's view of him. And Zed's view is clouded by guilt. Shen, I would argue did his homework... and knew what he was capable of and importantly knew where his emotional limits were.
In the final fight, Shen did walk into Jhin's trap... but he did it intentionally. That was not an onslaught Zed or Akali could survive, but it was something he could shoulder and take off the plate.
Similarly he lost his cool on the beach.. but what sort of burden was he carrying that that's what threw him over the edge? And I think I mostly agree with his logic on the beach. Jhin loves killing people... but he needs an audience. Jhin pulled the trigger, but it was Zed's fault those people died. Shen was angry... but he was right. Zed's behavior was going to get more people killed-- so Shen stopped him. (And Zed didn't bring his "a-game" because he knew Shen was right.) And Shen didn't think he could trust Zed or could work with him.
--
No gore wasn't my choice... and I would have preferred this story to show violence's repercussions. In fact, I basically disagree with how most media shows violence. We rarely seen anyone with a bruised face, busted cheekbone, or broken knuckles.. and I think that does a disservice to our collective morality. (Which is not to say I don't believe sometimes violence is necessary-- only that I think we should alway be aware of its ugliness and repercussions.) But riot, marvel, and most companies have pretty strict rating's limits because to be profitable they must subscribe to the dominate global culture's moral conventions... which is somewhat dangerous in my view... but until that cultural view changes, we have to live in that model for mass entertainment. ...because ratings relate to profits. So I can only show mostly unharmed corpses... and not many of them... and I can only show people abstractly dying from magic...
If I had known the rating limits I would be under for this book... I'm not sure I would have signed up to do this story.
Romance:
Yevnai, (excluding the Aatrox rework) is probably the most controversial thing I've written for league players. And probably it was a mistake... (I stand by Aatrox though) .
Ultimately because the Yevnai plotline was a from a middle aged person's perspective. (In particular how a past love and passion can simply fade into the background of life or be held on to, only as a form of regret.) The goal of the scene was to show how Shen and Zed's lives hadn't emotionally moved on... by showing someone who had moved on with her life. Thus illustrating paths that those two men's lives could have taken... but didn't because of what had happened with Kusho's "death."
Also while Yevnai's not angel, but It was also deeply distressing to me that people describe a girl in an arranged marriage as a slut or thot for having feeling for someone other than who she was arranged to marry. I've had many friends get divorces. And infidelity is seemingly often as justifiable as it is unjustifiable. Shrug.
Yevnai was a plot-line I really liked... but a plot line I probably should have cut--because the comic's audience isn't middle-aged. Who knows?
I had intended to have a flashback of her in issue 4 or 5 that expanded the love triangle. (Showing that Zed and her were very much in love... but they never acted on it. Except when Zed kissed her the night he was leaving. And that this was because Zed wasn't willing to betray Shen who had actually fallen for her. And the scene further showed how Kusho knew Yevnai didn't love his son, but didn't care. Because he simply viewed Shen's arranged marriage as just a tool for his political goals. Maybe it would have worked... again...shrug.
Unfortunately by the time I got to revising the script for that issue, and realized I didn't have the space... Issue 2 was already drawn (So it was too late to cut her and this subplot), but it also meant that I didn't have a "callback" to keep the idea that Zed had a life he never acted upon... until when I needed it to payoff in issue 6.
Sadly, writing isn't chemistry. It's at best alchemy... And every writer I love has released bad books, Every director I love has released at least one mediocre or outright sh*tty movie. As a creative you can only hope that your batting average is good.
So.. I'm sorry this wasn't a story you liked. Hope you like the Tales From Runeterra Short. Which show your boi from Akali's perspective.
I loved the comic with all my heart, even though the Kusho part was kinda cliche- it very much took me off guard!
I dunno if you will anwser this but- I don't mind if you don't!Both Zed and Kayn are my most favourite champs ever, lore wise, design wise, game wise.. everything. I really love how you portrayed them in Zed's perspective and I know Zed isn't a "hero", hes done a lot of horrible things but as he said, most men have. Especially growing up in a war torn land and witnessing all those dreadful things at such a young age, I don't blame Zed for the way he thinks, that doesn't make him good or "justified", but it definitely doesn't make him a completely bad person.
Although I love the whole badass facade Zed gives off a lot.. I was really hoping that by the end of the comic Zed and Shen could have at least remained allies. I understand where you were trying to go with Zed- and I understand with the circumstances it would be very hard for Zed to remain friends with Shen after all the lies and after ACTUALLY killing his father now, but I was hoping they could at least some kind of small understanding or mutual friendship- I'm hoping someday in the far future they might be able to build their relationship into that small friendship or brotherly friendship, even if its nothing like what they once had when they were younger. I really loved the whole forgiveness thing in issue 5, it hurt a lot to see that had to be put to an end after he had just "redeemed" himself :(
Other than that, the only real question I had that a few of my in-real-life friends were curious about, (sorry if you've already been asked this already,) will Akali and Kayn's relationship ever expand? (I personally don't ship or see them together but I think it's a very interesting aspect of the lore and something that could maybe someday change the view of the Kinkou and Shadow Order/)
Again thank you for this wonderful comic, Odin! I personally think that you did a great job and I'm sorry to hear how hard it was to write!
I think in a small way Zed and Shen's relationship did heal. They did work together which indirectly sets a precedent that they could work together in the future. For instance, if the world was in trouble.. or if Yevnai was in trouble or one of her sons got in trouble.. I kinda feel like Shen and Zed would put there feud on hold again. And I think in a way they both know that now. (in part because Shen DIDN'T kill Zed when he had the chance... and because Zed DID keep his word to Shen.) Baby steps.
I'm not sure about Akali and Kayn. And don't know any plans for them. But I do think an interesting buddy story could be told with the two of them having to team up.
HAHAAA YESSS I KNEW HE DID IT ON PURPOSE IN THE FINAL FIGHT! Such a relief to hear it officially though. I asked this on a different thread but if you dont mind answering, who would win in an all-out fight between Zed and Shen? It was stated many times both in comics and in the comment section that Zed was holding back, but what if he wasnt? Has he completely surpassed Shen, or are they equals?
I think they're equals... and because they trained together they know a lot of each other's techniques and fighting styles. (not all but they had the same foundation... hence the panel where they land in the same pose.) . I also think it would be hard for both of them not to hold back. And I think they respect each other too much to use traps or dirty tricks. So I feel like a "fair fight" would probably be decided by the battlefield or situation. This is just spitballing... but if Zed was protecting Kayn.. I'd bet on him winning... but ditto for Shen defending Akali. So.. shrug.
Hello, If I am sorry, I would really like to know how to speak correctly. In my region there are no rioters involved or who care to answer these things. What I said is personal, I don't want to make anyone feel bad. Okay, now I understand some things more, I like your explanations. Regarding Zed and his friendship, the only thing that Shen obtained was Jhin (and that surely escapes 1000 times more) The fact that Zed says that he will kill him seems excessive and makes no sense, Shen only gave him good things. Hopefully they treat Shen better, I am seriously thinking that she is the saddest and most unhappy character in the game. I feel like your relationship is like this--> https://imgur.com/nycGZnG I understand about yevnai, everything was summed up and was open to misinterpretation. It seemed strange to me, you know? It doesn't change my image of zed if you put that character on or off of the history, Zed and his friendship with shen was enough to show that they are both screwed in the head. In general, everyone who read the comic in my region uses Yevnai as a recurring joke, you know "Neither Evelynn nor Ahri is that ........ as yevnai" "shen failed cuckold" "zed cuckold idiot thief brides "bla bla bla. Now that you say it I can understand this better, it is a summarized idea that would have been fine with the proper development, but most people did not understand it that way, they think it is bad and a bitch. For my part I do not like their existence. (and ... I liked the thing about aatrox) I think you should not decline your ideas, everything I read that you would do and wanted, it was great, things are half prone to misinterpretations. I myself have interpreted things differently until I read your texts. About the public: You would be surprised about the public, I was surprised when I started reading the Lore and interacting in Lore groups. I am a man, and I made 5 surveys in lol groups of more than 20 thousand people, and statistically the majority of those who read the lore, (and interpret it in detail), are women. I'm in a group of Shen fans, and another of Zed, and another of both, and in all three, 90% are women. (I'm even surprised to see how many little girls love Zed, I'm talking about 13, 14 year old girls.) Don't be guided by the public. Stupid questions ps: Shen has a mother? Are the Leds in your eyes always on? Akali still wants to kill Zed? Where's Jhin? You made my year happy with having answered me. I appreciate you, and I don't hate the comic, I liked , except what I have written here. I will be happy to expect more lore from shen, zed akali, etc, even if years must pass. Cheers!!
Stupid questions ps: Shen has a mother?
y.
Are the Leds in your eyes always on? Huh?
Akali still wants to kill Zed? Probably.
Where's Jhin? Oh he is still jail. Wait.... what's today's date? Uh... hard to say... probably in jail.
Hello Mr Odin! I Loved the comic even with those little artistic fails detail's ( like Shen having an undercut and then having none. We loved the undercut so much!!!)
I'm shy but I'm adventuring this time to write, in the hopes you sir at least just read this. I'm a lore fan, soon to be 30yo. Since I'm playing LoL I've loved the lore and I can say you're one of my favorite writer's at riot.
I will try to summarize my comment 1- the end with Zed and Kayn touched something in me, I'll elaborate, I've always tough that Kusho was a bad father, but for being negligent towards Shen in favor of Zed, not for being a abusive paternal figure to both! Less to Zed maybe. And the end confirming it, but... Making Zed grown up past the abuse he received from kusho, and even with his mistakes, Zed trying to be a better father figure to kayn make me cry a lot like I haven't done in time, I was abused at my 15yo in my search of a replacement of a paternal figure, because my dad died and I felt that part missing of my life. I've been in therapy and I'm better now, but I've dedicated so much time to these characters ( specially Shen and Zed, that I hope they'll make amends at least ) that finding this make me emotional. I've make this account just to pass you my gratitude's, I know Zed is not a good person, he's a assassin, and DO I love him being bad and having flails, but being able to be something he can't had in favor of Kayn having it to broke the cycle of abused, god, that was great.
Passing my gratitude's! And saying that the ninja fanbase have a lot of female fans ( and lgbt+ fans)
Thank you so much. I am glad to hear the story resonated with you. And I'm terribly saddened to hear you experienced abuse. (But I'm glad therapy is helping you and that you had the courage to engage with proffesional help!)
Please know that reaching people like you, is always the real goal of my writing.
In every story, I am hoping that I am being honest and that I am not alone. And hidden between the lines of any story, I am whispering and screaming to reader... that you are not alone either.
"You are not alone."
Because you're not alone. None of us are. Knowing other people have experienced similar pains. Have made similar mistakes, or suffered similar injustices, is a strength.
Knowing other people have seen and felt things like you... means knowing empathy is out there, and that healing is possible.
Thank you so much for kind words... and for taking the time to send them.
-Odin
Every time you mention Yevnai, a kitten dies.
Actually, I'm quite allergic to cats.
Sooo...
Yevnai! Yevnai! YEVNAI!
;)
With Leds in his eyes I think he means the fact that Shen appears with no pupils in the comic
ah! I was thinking like LEDs the screens. (And was assuming some text to speech error had occured)
His eyes still have pupils but they are glowing white with the energy inside of him. When he connects to his power he can see the spirit realm on top of our world. Look out for the tales of runeterra short.