[2021] I think people are being a little disingenuous when they say there is no item diversity/old items had more options.

Originally posted by RageRegularly

The problem is less about all champions having less options and more about certain champions having less options. One great example is the ap bruisers like Singed and Mordekaiser. Sure if you look at the recommendations for say Morde, Riot has offered you three choices being riftmaker, night harvester and protobelt. Each item has ap, hp and some kind of effect that should be decent for an ap bruiser like movespeed, a dash or extra healing. But how many games can morde actually go protobelt or night harvester? Almost none because the synergy isn't there. So the only option left is riftmaker right? Great, but the item isn't very good because of a shallow stat pool and lackluster ability/mythic passive. This was a very specific example but there are many more cases of champions being completely snuffed out because They're forced into building a mythic item that really just isn't very good, meanwhile adcs and ad assassins have many different diverse options to do with as they please in any situation. It's not a problem of every champion being less diverse, its an issue that some champions are just straight unplayable now because their options have been limited and they're pigeon holed into buying a crappy item.

Originally posted by Bluepanda800

I don't think it's just about champions having good mythic choices- it's also champions only having a good mythic for a prescribed gameplay style.

In terms of build diversity champions like Sona have a great mythic choice in moonstone but she struggles to be as effective building anything other than moonstone. Which is in sharp contrast to the prevalence of AP scaling Sona builds last season.

This is in part because of Sona nerfs but also because the lack of synergetic AP mythics she has access to: mandate, ludens, nightharvester, everfrost etc all have flaws like mandate only proccing off empowered E or R, and the others being way too expensive and not quite right for Sona. Also removing mana options outside of the mythics and seraphs (which is considerably worse than before- seriously can we change the build path to lost chapter + tear + amplifying tome) makes life harder for mana hungry AP Sona.

Sona is a big and obvious example but on a smaller scale playing supports with mythics just feels bad.

I play enchanters so it sounds odd to complain about mythics feeling restrictive when basically all enchanters built Athenes last season, but what Athene's did was enable (way too easily) enchanters to build other support items to strengthen heals/shields or to completely ignore the support item category for the rest of the game and just build lichbane, rabadons etc. Regardless of champion every enchanter synergised with Athene's and it had a unique gameplay (the stacks really should have decayed to make it balanced).

Imperial mandate and moonstone both end up being items that are good if your champion can abuse them rather than being options to choose from outside of playing champs that are just strong (like Lulu).

And I think the changes to support items adds to this restricted feeling:

The old zekes was an item picked up by both tank supports and enchanters or catchers (you ulted near your adc and they got a steroid) now it is a tank support item only, twin shadows was removed to stop abuse with glacial augment but now it can't be used to safely ward or check objectives, moving locket to a mythic means you can't buy a useful active to save your team from burst without sacrificing an item that synergises better with your champion if you don't want the aura passive. For a role that is focused on building items to buff your team and buying stuff to counter the enemy you can really feel the decrease in options.

And don't get me started on making support items build out of 3 slots not 2...

Originally posted by Zancibar

We have a mythic choice, but we can't really choose what to build after.

I go Braum, I pick Locket, maybe Chemtank if I really, really need the engage, let's say that's fine. What do I build next, what choice do I have next? Last season whether I chose Bow or Zekes, that impacted the way I played, and I could go stuff like gargoyle, thornmail, abyssal mask, f**king warmogs if I'm surviving with ten Hp too often. Now whether I go bow or zekes ot doesn't really change the way I play that much, gargoyle is too expensive, thornmail I can't reliably proc to it's fullest, same with abyssal, the MR movespeed item is great though, but I can never get to it because even if I can afford it I have already 5 slots out of 6 busy with Mythic, Zeke, Bow, Wardstone and boots. Enchanters I believe have a similar problem (though don't quote me on that).

And don't get me started on the AP "bruiser" itemization.

(On an unrelated note, I am pleasantly surprised that Rioters actually check out the community's opinion rather frecuently. I'm still kinda new to reddit and I didn't expect to find a rioter engaging in conversation almost every other post).

Originally posted by JazzyMuffin

Do you think that the item recommendations are partially responsible for this?

I normally just grab anything with a star on it, putting like a millisecond of thought into it. If im playing soraka who's schtick is heals and some area denial, I feel more inclined to grab a starred item that sounds synergistic to that cause.

Locket's good, but it doesnt innately reflect what a soraka normally does, esp when the mythic passive itself looks somewhat strange or non-contributive to hps(heals per second?).

Originally posted by RageRegularly

You're right that rocketbelt does have it's uses, but bringing it back to mordekaiser, (yes it's a little personal because he's my main I'm sorry) there's little incentive to build rocketbelt over say riftmaker. For a champion like Morde it's more enticing and arguably more valuable to have the healing from riftmaker. The reason for this is it makes the 1v1 in ult better and gives you healthier trades. However, I can also just buy a deadmans plate plus a rylai's crystal scepter to compensate for not having protobelt. But, the shallow stat pool of having less health and ap hurts a lot. Before the new items, I had the freedom to build whatever suited the game without being locked out of other item choices. For example, I could build liandries AND protobelt. Of course that protobelt could be subbed out for a rylai's, but if I really needed to get on the enemy adc I could build protobelt without sacrificing my liandries sustain damage. Now though, I have less of a choice. I can either build Riftmaker or I can build protobelt, I can't build both and that's restrictive. I just think that the idea of the mythic items is a little silly, and I mean no disrespect by that either. I mean, why not just make new items rather than create a whole new tier of items that have such greater restrictions? And again, it's not just Mordekaiser, he's just one of the victims (who sits at a 45% wr at diamond 2+ mind you) of this restrictive itemization. But like I said as well, it's more of a plight of the few rather than all champions. Some champions do have options, but why do you think that certain champions like Mordekaiser can't seem to make a comeback right now? It's because there are less item combinations and variety in their builds. This makes certain champions who have lost their core build identities almost useless with all of these new uber powerful items that everybody else can build. You also make the comment of champions experimenting with newer items, and that's a fair point metas can come out of thin air. However, I would counter argue that there are champions who are unique in the sense that their experimentation is also limited. For example, there are only 4 champions in the game who are both AP and do not use mana, these champions being Akali, Mordekaiser, Katarina and Kennen. While Katarina can do some experimental stuff like going Kraken slayer, what can Morde, Akali and Kennen do? They're completely locked out of any of the items that AP champions use with mana (because they have none) meanwhile ap champions with mana can easily build the mythics without mana (i.e gragas mostly favors night harvester over ludens and ekko builds rocketbelt). You could also say that Mordekaiser could use the tank mythic items, but you lose out on the core stat that your champion thrives on, AP. I know this response was very long and again I mean no disrespect by any of this, I absolutely respect the talented individuals at Riot for what they do for us players, all I'm saying is that certain champions need to be looked at in terms of how they're being restricted due to the new items. I hope you reply to this message as I'd love to hear what you have to think and would also enjoy to continue the conversation.

Originally posted by Spideraxe30

Could you clarify if the balance adjustments just the Kraken Slayer fix or are more changes planned for Kat, since Scruffy’s usual list didn’t mention anything more