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Should rename Klepto to something else then as the new effect doesn't match with the current name
Should rename Klepto to something else then as the new effect doesn't match with the current name
We plan to re theme it with a new name and icon.
Will you guys be buffing Ezreal with his one viable Keystone in the game getting removed?
we'll be watching him
show some love to my illaoi too please.
sorry, we'll be watching ONLY EZREAL. if Illaoi drops to 35% winrate we'll just say "oh deer" and sigh wistfully - but do nothing else cuz she stole our spirits
: )
we gotchu
I'll hold you guys to that, don't want to play my base-stat-nerfed version of AP Ezreal (not hybrid) for another 2 years. The most recent Q AP ratio nerf has solidified it as completely awful, as now farming in the mid game is basically impossible. This used to not be the case, but the nerfs of the past 2 years since klepto have hit AP Ezreal disproportionately hard compared to AD Ezreal.
- Your local 5k game, 1.5m mastery AP Ezreal one trick.
Actually i feel like the rework hit ap ezreal by making the two builds much more similar
From my perspective, AD ezreal got a lot more burst and became hybrid ezreal (muramana ludens gunblade build). then we made the call to nerf his burst so AD ezreal would be... AD - but this of course hits AP ezreal harder.
What seems to be the second best Keystone for Ezreal currently? Keeping in mind I'm aware the sample-sizes are probably so small it's basically unreliable. I'm assuming Aery or Comet?
honestly really hard to tell because ezreals that aren't taking klepto are probably just really new to (bad at) ezreal
idk what you talking bout. 35% winrate seems like a fair spot for a champ like her
u right
Updated: Gain a burst of Movement speed for 3s after using your ultimate
HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE
Cloud Soul applies after channels finish, similar to Nimbus Cloak on Live. It will also be special cased to work on Udyr; (it will work on any of his abilities) and will work on Shapeshifters when they cast transform if they don't have an ultimate ability like Gnar does (Elise, Jayce, Nid, Shyvana).
the herald change is a nerf
The Herald damage has been buffed since the player labs. It now gets ~2-3 plates on average, depending on how it's defended.
what happens if champion who can't proc aftershock got aftershock from using new klepto rune?
You can't get aftershock unless you have a non-ultimate ability that can trigger it
Similarly, you can't get predator unless you already own boots (RIP cass)
a non-ultimate ability that can trigger it
Pretty sure malphite can go aftershock without it being replaced. It's just any ability. A GP or Olaf for example gets it replaced as their only way to trigger it is hitting Blast Cone with an enemy on it.
he certainly can if he wants to take aftershock
Oh wait this was about Kaleidostone right? Uhh my reading comprehension is inting by now!
Is there any other thing to the RNG other than 'you can't get one of the last 5' and those specific restrictions for Aftershock and Perdator? Eg. can Vayne with the Keystone gain Comet?
actually the way a keystone is chosen is: All valid keystones are put in a table. Game randoms one, removes it from the table. If the table has less than 3 entries, it refills the table. You can't get the same keystone back to back (so on refill, it doesn't add the previous keystone back into the table until after it picks your next one)
Vayne can get comet
Tbh I'm excited for the Keystone, since JuggerSion will likely not be a bad user of it (I can already build almost random items, and all keystones sans Guardian and (depending on build) Conqueror, which already don't appear to be in the pool, are well usable). The one issue I have is output randomness, what is your stance on whether you should already know which Keystone you get next during the 7s CD?
It's input randomness
So you think people will disengage and wait out the 7s CD outside of a trade? What champion types/playstyles would you expect the rune to be used by?
um
theres no reason to disengage, the combat lockout is for running out of time to use a keystone, not for getting a new one
Hello my friend beluga :) i wanted to talk something about the new reworked conqueror i know its hardly released but please can you make it work for garen's E too :)? i would be happy :D
yeah thats a bug i believe we are aware of and will resolve before live
Hey captain is the conqueror tooltip bug on your radar
no, whats the bug
The 7s I'm refering to is the cooldown between 2 Keystones, after applying one it currently goes on CD and rolls for the next one.
yeah what about it. I expect if you want to all in, you'll continue all inning and maybe get to use another keystone. The more all-in keystones all have longer CDs (except Conqueror), so any subsequent keystone you get after them is actually just pure value
But when I all-in, I don't get to see what keystone is coming up for me! Suddenly, I land on Comet, just after I put my spells on CD, an auto attack related Keystone was more likely to come up but I rolled low. Or maybe I'm in a close fight, the enemy turns to finish me off - I get Dark Harvest in the last moment before my Basic Attack lands and it finishes him off before he finishes me. If he had known that DH was coming up, he could've played around that random (bound to be low-chance) 'crit' and decided whether it'll be worth the risk, not just be surprised or annoyed with what the Keystone ended up putting out.
Both the Kaleido-user and his opponent should be able to see what's coming up, not just what someone outside of combat is running around with, imo! Otherwise that's not randomness you can prepare to play around for properly.
no, think that mid-combat planning around what keystone you are about to get is too much mindshare on a rune that already takes tons of mindshare.
if you role comet after using all your spells, wait the 4 seconds it takes for a spell CD then trigger comet. if you don't like the input rng that randomly tells you "hey now go figure out how to use THIS keystone", this is probably not the keystone for you.
I mean, I guess? I still don't get why you label it 'input-rng' though.
If I knew what was coming up I could base my decision too keep fighting, hold a spell for comet or disengage on that thing coming up. That's making an informed decision.
Not knowing what comes up means I won't decide based on the RNG (since I have limited information on it), and then the outcome of my decision is decided when the keystone readies.
Those are the definitions of input- and output-randomness, respectively, or did I mix the two up somehow?
Input RNG because the system gives you a random input (that doesn't by itself so anything) and the player uses that input to do something.
Output RNG would be "attack 3 times, trigger a random keystone"
Input RNG is desirable because it asks the player to reassess the game state and do something, whereas output RNG does something
Since the game is continuous, the border does blur, but in this case it's about as cut and dry as it can be since the input literally does nothing until the player takes action
The entire Elemental Rift system design is based around 'you find yourself in a mixed up rift. Use your brain to make use of your altered surroundings', and that's the same design idea with Kaleidostone you're talking about. The difference, and the point I can't seem to put into words resulting in this tedious argument (sorry about it, but thanks for adressing all my points still!), is that the Element the Rift is changed to won't have that large of a change to the result of your previous decisions:
If I decided to pick Sion in Champ Select, and then I get 'thrown into' Mountain Rift at 15 minutes, it certainly HAS an impact. But it won't tip the scales of winning or losing in either direction, it just has me adust my ults through the jungle based on how open or clogged up the terrain is, and enables/disables lines to take.
Kaleidostone does do the same thing, but not as well. When the game reveals the keystone the player rolled the moment it becomes ready (the mid-combat case), it cuts down the time either player has to react and change their play. If a player ignores the Keystone he got and takes the line of play he already set for himself in mind, because he couldn't account for the Keystone or wait until it was revealed, that completely invalidates what the design is going for. In that case, the input does nothing until the player takes action in a literal sense, but the LACK of earlier input makes the player interact less with it.
For a comparison, it's like not knowing which Dragon type comes up until it spawns. Yes, you can then still decide whether you want to contest that type or not, but you will ignore the roll and the decision connected with it until it actually happens. Technically the dragons not being announced at game start or in champion select is the same, but the difference in design here is as far as it's been told that 'dragons should not influence what you pick' and the likes. In other words, if the impact is low enough, it doesn't have to be accompained by so much decision making time.
But is Kaleidostone's roll this overall impactless? The variance is large.
- What is the reasoning against making KStone show what it will roll in advance? To put the player in more exciting situations because of the shorter preparation time? I fail to see how previewing the roll would result in worse design.
I'm curious not because 'the keystone is stong/weak' or 'randomness bad', but because game design is a complex topic I want to understand better in general. Thanks for discussing it this far!
yeah that reasoning is basically just the judgement call that I don't want players thinking about the keystone THAT much. I think its good when you plan around it before engaging, but after engaging in combat I don't think it's nearly as desirable to start asking you to think about the next keystone on a Xs preview. At that point I think its okay to just show you the keystone when it's ready, since most keystones still have some amount of play time before they trigger.