Per Riot Azaels twitter -
TSM will be starting Spica for playoffs with Tactical & Treatz as their subs.
After an entire split of figuring out who's the starter between Akaadian & Grig the answer seems to be neither.
Really shocked to not see one at least kept on as a sub for Playoffs!
External link →To be fair, this is probably one of the most logical reasons. Also tactical/treatz have been killing it in academy and putting pressure on zven/smoothie isnt the worst idea.
You think killing it for TaccyT?
I'm a fan of them and I think Treatz shows UP in the Academy post-seasons he's played in so far, but Tactical never felt like the super dominant, powerful bot-laner I know he can be, at least not yet.
It's certainly an interesting choice to field a back up bot lane and Tactical has played some non-marksman this year I think? But curious on how strong you think the Academy bot-lane is, always happy to have civil discussion!
Gotta love how the "academy" is the exact opposite of what it was supposed to be - instead of growing young talent, its a retirement home.
Contractz, FBI, Zeyzal, Licorice, Grig, Damonte, FakeGod and maybe now Spica?
Not sure I fully agree with the retirement home.
oh okay. "interim coach" kinda implies something else. Should probably be "co-coach"
He is technically the Assistant Coach/Analyst listed on stage for them I believe. So you can basically just think of it as Assistant Coach.
Sure, but why did GGS pick up Darshan instead of a promising Amateur or Solo Q toplaner? Same thing for Lourlo and Matt
Because leadership and experience is important to have around new players as well, look at CG this split or GGS a split ago and you can see how having a very fresh squad can be difficult.
Do I believe that orgs should take more chances on developing players in Academy? Absolutely.
But it's not just a retirement home while clearly not being a perfect breeding ground for talent either. Teams are still figuring out how best to use Academy IMO.
KuroKumo, blaber, wiggly, damonte, goldenglue also all had a good showing on stage coming from academy. Only a couple are full time LCS right now but you can make a case for teams to pick up any of them as a starter.
AHHH I CAN’T BELIEVE I FORGOT WIGGILYYYYYYY.
F.
Because leadership and experience is important to have around new players as well, look at CG this split or GGS a split ago and you can see how having a very fresh squad can be difficult.
Can agree with this concept but not in how it's put into practice. I think the academy teams shouldn't be recycling players that lose their spot in LCS starting rosters, at least not so often.
Have veterans to anchor new players on starting LCS/LEC/etc teams because they are players trusted to actually play at and think at that level, but
1) Don't want a player who isn't viewed as good enough for a starting roster to be the one influencing the new academy players,
and
2) The goal of academy should be raising that talent, and the experience they get presumably scrimming and doing other practice and such with the main roster should be what does that. They don't need a veteran player from the LCS on their team.
I think you make good points and I would be curious to see a team have this take and commit to using Academy to develop their talent this way.
It does seem like most teams value both the vets and winning perhaps a little more at the moment, whether that’s correct or not I can’t say, but I think you make a good case as to why it might not be.
The goal of Academy is also up to the teams, although I also agree with you that it should have talent development as a primary goal.
This is standard in other areas too.
It's common for MLB -> AAA or NHL -> AHL transitions to take place at the end of careers so that organizations can have an experienced veteran in the wings to serve as a short-term replacement when needed, and so that they can provide leadership and mentorship to the developing players.
That’s really cool! I assumed this would be the case but didn’t know enough about American sports to be able to point to situations where this happens, so thanks!
What’s up Pastry! I think you’re definitely right. Of the two of them, Treatz is by far the one ready to make the step from Academy to LCS, but it’s intriguing because on TSM’s roster, I think Zven is the one that needs the pressure more so than Smoothie. Also with the import slots, it will be a full botlane swap, so it’ll be interesting to see how TSM decides to play this one. Will they swap in Tactical and Treatz if the go up 2-0 on CG? Or are they simply bringing them along to give them experience in the situation for the gauntlet stage. Curious to see how this works out!
Yeah I did forget that Treatz was an import and they’d have to make the full duo swap if they wanted to play him, so that makes way more sense as to why they’re bringing the whole Academy bot lane.
I’m also curious! I love that Academy players have gotten more main stage opportunities in general and it’s been a pleasure commentating that league frequently.
ACADEMY RISE UP.
Contractz didn't come up through Academy he was playing in the Quarterfinals of World's before Academy even existed. He got sent to academy when his play declined.
I was hoping no one would remember =)
I was also reminded about Wiggily who I somehow forgot, but yes you’re right Contractz did in fact not play in Academy.
So let's count how many experienced players are there?
A lot! I’m not saying that there aren’t a ton of former LCS starters and veterans also in Academy, I’m just saying that the “Academy is only a retirement home” narrative is false, much like the “Academy is winning with pure unfounded young talent!” Story would also be if that’s what was being told.
Add ma boy Blaber into that Pastry.
I legit just named whoever I could think of off the top of my head but now that we’re really getting the discussion rolling oh boy there’s junglers everywhere.
Hey Pastrytime, just wanted to say hi, thanks for all you do 🤘🏼
Hi! It’s my pleasure, thanks for continuing to watch and support!
In baseball there are a lot of fiddly rules to ensure you can't use your "farm teams" as holding grounds for vets such as "options" (limited numbers of send downs after X years of major league experience... If you try when a player is out of options they go on waivers and teams can try to sign them for a limited time until they "clear waivers"). However in the off season you can offer an aging veteran a minor league contact to let them work out and stay sharp in your organization.
I definitely think the LCS needs some rules in place to ensure academy remains mostly budding talent though. Looking to MLB as an example is great since they have a strong players Union ensuring protection for veterans and youthful talents alike.
IIRC there is a limit on number of allowed veteran players (although what constitutes this exactly escapes me currently), so there's that at least.
And I just realised I forgot the Big Dhokes! He was on academy for a split or two before main roster right?
Yes!
Because leadership and experience is important to have around new players as well
I thought the coaches are supposed to fill that gap...
I'm some part yes, but a lot of team's currently use analysts or more junior coaches to coach their Academy teams (so they're also in training in some way) and they can't contribute to comms IN GAME which is often a lot of the value that more experienced players bring.
Is it weird I read it in your voice?
Nope that's pretty par for the course at this point.
Thanks for sticking up for NA talent bro. Who's going to teach the new breed how to play? The coach can't do it all, which is why vets like Darshan and Xpecial are big for talent growth. I just want teams to avoid being too dependent on vets to carry them in game. 100TA got super reliant on the Ssumday show, and they looked aimless when Ssumday fell behind in the game vs GGSA.
Agreed, I think finding the balance of new talent and experienced leadership is really important but something that's difficult to determine especially given that the system hasn't been around for very long.
I'm confident the team's will figure it out sooner rather than later, but it's fun watching the development of the league all the same.
With all due respect but
Ssumday, Grig, Aakadian, Anda, Lourlo, Matt, Wadid, Keith, Huhi/Olleh,Darshan and freaking Dardoch
Seems like a retirement home to me or atleast, to quote mary poppins, a place where the lost things go.
It can be both was mostly all I was pointing out.
Oh yeah for sure, I was just jesting in all honesty. It's just funny to me there are so many star players in a thing called academy. I mean imagine saying 2 years ago that Ssumday would be on a B-squad of a team.
But ofcourse you are right, it's full of new talent as well.
We agree on the internet.
Let's GO Calyptics
High five
Highjacking this thread to say I love your casting Pastry.
Interesting to receive a compliment from such a user name but I'm very glad my over game vocalizations please you and I hope that continues.
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