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Genuine question as I'm curious. It's not just balancing around 50% winrate like it is in SoloQ, because if that were the case we would see far more drastic patch notes.

Instead, we either get the same 5-10 champs in every role with very little deviation, for patch after patch after patch. Or when something new crops up that they don't like, they nerf it almost instantly. So that suggests to me that they CAN react quickly when they don't like something, but choose NOT to when they like the meta, and thus leave certain champs untouched for months. So how do they decide what they want in the meta?

It took them six months to nerf Wukong & Vi out of the jungle meta, and even now Ivern & Maokai are untouched. Additionally, in the past two years it seems like only six or seven ADCs have actually seen viable play. Which suggests they're choosing to leave it that way, and it's what they want.

What really drove this home for me was watching KSante 1v9 the LEC finals. It is rare to see a champion so unanimously hated by the audience (seriously, there was not a single voice defending the champ as far as I could see), and yet he remains untouched, a Pro Play staple. So this isn't a rant, but I'm genuinely curious what metrics Riot use for the pro meta. Surely audience satisfaction has to be one of the most important metrics, no?

Do they consult with the Pros, and buff/keep in the meta champions that the Pros like? I can imagine champs like KSante/Aphelios/Azir are very popular with Pros due to the skill expression/outplay potential, so is the satisfaction of the Pro Players ranked highly? (Which would make sense since they're the ones actually playing, so if that's the case fair enough).

But we know that they CAN act quickly when they don't like a champion's presence in Pro Play. Heimer support was nerfed as soon as they could. They actively redesigned items to force enchanters out of the meta for more interesting melee supports, so they're quite capable of shaking things up when they need to.

So the fact that they don't shake it up and leave certain champs untouched means it must be deliberate, and I'm wondering how they choose what they want and don't want to see play.

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over 1 year ago - /u/endstep - Direct link

Mandatory pro changes are part of the balance framework (I think this is the most recent dev blog about it, but it's a few years old and I don't work on the Live pod so it's possible there's a more recent post or a more recent version). There are other scenarios where champions are changed for pro purposes (e.g. the framework doesn't suggest champions to buff for pro, only champs to nerf), but the must-nerfs come from there.

Using K'Sante as an example case, looking at top 5 regions, on 13.12 he was nerfed and fell to 70% presence (from 80% on the previous patch). 13.13 saw him drop again to 56% presence, and limited samples from 13.14 and 13.15 have him at 55% and 41% presence respectively. Now, I understand (as does the Live pod that works on these types of changes) that these sample patches running up to worlds aren't necessarily the best data given the way that playoffs lock patches in, but this is the pro data that there is to work with before worlds - it's never ideal, and they have to make decisions about worlds buffs/nerfs with limited information.

Things like Heimer support were nerfed immediately due to skyrocketing quickly to 90%+ presence, though of course there's always debates to be had about how to nerf something that's extremely high presence (and the magnitude of those nerfs) - which is going to come down to trying to balance things like the spectator experience, the pro player's opinions, strategic diversity, etc.

As an example of some of the weirdness that can occur here around pro balancing, historically AP junglers in pro have been in this space where pro teams don't want to invest practice time into playing comps with AP junglers unless they have more than one AP jungler that they see as "op" or "pro playable" because they don't want to invest time into practicing a comp that can be banned out with a single ban on the lone AP jungler they've practiced. So this means that there's a lot of awkwardness around AD sololaner/AP jungler metas where sometimes a moderate nerf to a single AP jungler can collapse the meta as it stands, or conversely buffing one or even two AP junglers can often change nothing at all from a more standard jungle meta. There are dozens of these types of paradigms around what pro teams prefer to play/practice, so there's a lot to consider when the Live pod is looking at buffing/nerfing for pro and there often isn't a clear "right decision" on what to buff/nerf for pro, even amongst people that generally agree on how pro balance should be done.

Now, keep in mind that my understanding might be a bit dated/off given that I've only recently come back to work on League and I don't work on the Live pod that does this type of work, but hopefully this was at least a little informative.