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I've seen the topic of diamond players being good/bad come up a lot in this subreddit lately, and I've personally talked a lot about it, so I thought I'd make a post explaining the high elo perspective on it. I'm a Challenger player and I think more importantly I do 1on1 coaching as my job, so the topic of rank progression is what I do more than anything. I've coached thousands of people across every rank except iron and the most important thing to help them to progress is to make them understand the difference between silver/gold/plat/diamond/etc, and what they need to do to get to each rank, so I talk about this topic a lot.

To start out, I want to first say that statistically, diamond players are very good. You are far above average, and no one can take that away from you. If you went to a LoL stadium and met random people, you would be a lot better than most of them.

However, context matters. When higher elo players say diamond players are bad, it is not in the context of "comparatively to the playerbase". They understand you are above average. But, the problem is, and this goes for any hobby/sport/skill in the world: most people are very bad at it. There is a big difference between proficiency and mastery. The better you get at a certain skill, the more you realize how bad you are at it. This isn't league exclusive in any way. Gonna use a bunch of numbers in this paragraph, and as a disclaimer all of them are just rough approximations. Don't want people contesting the numbers over the overall point. A 2000 elo chess player is probably the best chess player you'll ever meet in your life, but they're not even playing the same game as a 2500. A golf player who plays on par is very very good, but they're garbage compared to a -3/4 player(I don't play golf). You can even look at it physiologically. A 12% body fat man is really fit, but they're nowhere close to a 7% body fat man. All of this is because when you get better at something, it continually becomes exponentially harder to improve. All of these examples, comparatively to statistical average, are not very far apart at all. It's top 3% to top 1%, top 10% to top 5%, etc, but the difference between them is bigger than top 10% to top 40%. Because in any skill, the majority of the playerbase is casual, bad, etc. They don't put in the work, they don't know how to improve, they're not talented. Not league specific at all, that's just how it works when you get a large amount of people doing something. You could even look at the very top. If an LCS team had to play with a random Challenger, it would be devastating. They'd instantly be 10th place. And yet, statistically, those players are 0.001% difference.

When we look at the League ranking system based on actual game mastery, there is a distinct difference between high diamond and the top of the ladder. This is because, and I know this is a very unpopular opinion; silver and diamonds are playing the game in the same way. The only difference is that diamond players are much better at it. This is actually a really important concept in coaching, because lower elo players tend to focus on the wrong things, thinking that diamond players are doing things differently than them. In reality, all it takes to be diamond is fundamentals. There is a certain point in the ladder in which fundamentals are not enough, and you need to actually learn the game, unless you're just mechanically insane and you're going to brute force your way into high elo. This point is determined by the strength of the ladder, which means it differs across regions. In NA, it's around D1. In EU, it's around D3/D2, and in KR, it's around P1/D4. This is why so many players plateau in diamond. When you start playing in your first season, and you play for years working your way up the ranks, you're learning the basics of the game. You're becoming proficient. Eventually, you reach proficiency at the game, and that gets you to mid-high diamond. At that point, you have to start working on mastery, and you need to forget everything you know about the game and relearn it in a different way. You'll see this same plateau from proficiency to mastery across all skills. Proficiency is very easy to attain relative to mastery, or even just entering the realm of mastery, despite them being separated by only a few percentage points statistically.

To get ahead of the expected counterpoint to this, I want to clarify the difference between knowing things and understanding the game. I know that a lot of diamond/plat players know things about the game. They're a lot smarter than silver players, they may know more wave manipulation, more macro, etc, but they're still playing the same game. When you break that threshold from proficiency to entering mastery, you're reaching an entirely new level, or you're just very talented mechanically.

This is why it's very common for high elo streamers and such to hate on diamond players, despite diamond players being statistically very very good, because the difference between diamond and Challenger is bigger than the difference between diamond and silver. If silver players got queued into diamond games, they'd get flamed. If silver players tried to flame diamond players, they'd get told they shouldn't type because they're silver. I don't condone flaming at all, it's pointless and dumb, it only shows that you have low self control. I also don't condone the way a lot of streamers treat diamond players, but the things they're saying regarding the skill gap are not wrong. A lot of their frustration and toxicity comes from the fact that the community, and diamond players themselves. think diamond is a lot better than it is. But that's not an excuse, and a lot of their frustration and toxicity just comes from them being toxic.

In conclusion, low elo players; just work on fundamentals if you want to be diamond. Unsubscribe from Skillcapped, stop watching advanced wave manipulation videos and Dopa's secret new warding trick, put down the Yasuo and Azir. Stop trying to learn to run before you can walk. Diamond players, if you want to pass diamond you need to realize that you are a super silver and you need to relearn the entire game, forget everything you know. Challenger players/streamers should just stop being toxic because it doesn't solve anything and no one wants to watch you type in chat because you have no self control.

Edit: I commented on what I consider mastery/the difference between Diamond and Challenger. It's not entirely inclusive but it covers the basics. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/d7qnko/proficiency_vs_mastery_the_high_elo_mentality/f149bdu/

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over 5 years ago - /u/RiotWeeknd - Direct link

Originally posted by LoLwolverene

I left this part out of the post for length reasons. There's no easy way to explain it, but the biggest difference is just how you think about the game, which comes out most in laning. High level players will start out the game looking at the enemy's team comp and their lane matchup, and playing differently according to it. Then, depending on the game state and their lane state, they'll continue to adjust how they're playing throughout the game. This sounds really simple, but when you get deeper into it it becomes more complex, because the amount of factors that contribute to your decision making increase the more precise your decision making is. For example, it's very easy to play safe into a counter matchup, but it's harder to know more precise things like the exact levels you lose a matchup, and what level/item wakeups change it into a winning matchup, what timings in the lane you can play aggressively relative to the jungle matchup, etc. A high level player will know how they're playing the first 7 waves of the game before minions spawn. A D1 player will typically know their matchup at a very basic level, but they don't think about their play very analytically. Most high diamond players will just auto-trade, on instinct, unless they're very far behind or in a hard counter matchup, because that's just how they learned. When you go from gold->d1 you learn to just play based on experience. You have 10s of thousands of memories of lane interactions, fights, and you use those to make your decisions. The problem is you can't create memories of concepts you don't understand. You could say the difference between proficiency and mastery is playing on instinct vs analysis, but I think that problem extends into Challenger and even pro play, albeit to a lesser degree, so I'd say it's somewhat accurate. At a higher level, the goal of laning phase shifts from just thinking about out-trading your opponent, to a wider scope of creating a lane advantage. An example would be, if you're playing Syndra and you're at 300 mana level 5, enemy laner is an even matchup, let's say Orianna, and she's at 80% hp, a D1 Syndra will continue to throw spells at Orianna, and a D1 Orianna will still try to dodge those spells. At a high level, Syndra will completely ignore using spells on Orianna, knowing her mana pool isn't enough to ever kill her, and the Orianna will completely ignore any damage taken from the Syndra, since she knows she can't die. If Syndra dropped to 100 or 50 mana, a D1 Orianna might play more aggressively, but a high level Orianna will walk into the middle of the enemy wave and not care that she's taking hundreds of damage in minion aggro, because she's not trying to out trade, she's trying to gain a lane advantage. She'll take tower shots to stop Syndras recalls, she'll take 300 hp to 0 hp trades just to make Syndra lose 80 mana. It's the same for health. If Orianna and Syndra are equal mana but hp is 400 to 1000, the higher health player will take 300 to 100 trades, because they know their health doesn't matter. Health/Corrupting pot usage is the same. 1000 to 1000 but 0 hp pots vs 3 corrupting pots. D1 player will play like lane is even, high level player will take 300/100 trades knowing they win the long term resource battle. You don't see players playing around resources in this way until past diamond, especially mana/pots. Recalls/exp are a good example of another thing that increases very sharply. From silver-diamond everyone plays around recalls in around the same way, with steady improvement, but once you get past diamond it will very sharply increase, to where in some lanes it will feel like recalls are the only things that matter. For a scenario: Player 1 pushes wave, recalls, comes back, and player 2 has just finished clearing the wave and is now running back to recall. There's a 6/7 minion wave coming into player 1's tower, and they now have no wave. In D1, player 1 lets the wave come to his tower, farms it, and tries to push the next wave into tower as fast as they can to deny minions. At a higher level, player 1 tanks the entire minion wave as they walk down the lane, walks into players 2's tower and cancels their recall, then kites back, comes back 4 seconds later to check player 2's recall location again. If player 2 stays they will constantly check their recall every time they go into fog to try to keep them in lane. In late lane phase, D1 players will not really know when to push/roam and when to stay in lane, besides obvious cases, because they don't understand the dynamics of the team compositions well enough. There's a double digit amount of factors that go into decisions like that, that take a large amount of game knowledge. Like 70% of scenarios are relatively easy decisions, and those will increase a lot from silver-diamond, but the other 30% will actually be hard decisions in which diamond players will make the wrong decision, and often won't even consider what's actual the right decision. There's certain recall timings and rotations that don't exist in diamond because the factors that go into making those decisions aren't factors that diamond, or even some challenger players consider. Mid game rotations are definitely different, but not enough that it's worth going into. It's just more along the theme that high level players think about things more analytically. Maybe I'm just tired of typing.

This isn't to say that diamond players have good mechanics and it's all knowledge. People tend to really underestimate mechanic ceiling. I've had so many gold/plat/diamond players tell me their mechanics are fine and they just need to learn mid game rotations or whatever other nonsense. Literally has never been true. Mechanics still separate pro players, they'll never not be incredibly important, no matter what level you achieve. And the higher you get the harder mechanical refinements become. There's even an argument to be made that at some point you just have to be talented to be a top top tier player, because you can't simply learn mechanics at that level, although I'm not positive I believe in that. But the effort it takes to mechanically go from diamond to Challenger is very hard, harder than diamond to silver. Things like spacing get a lot better at very high levels. Super high level matchups players will both be wiggling their champions in and out of each other's range constantly at 200+ apm, and that's not something you see even in high diamond. It's something that increases from silver to diamond, but the refinement from spacing accurate to 100 units vs spacing accurate to 20 units is much harder to achieve and more important than 300 units to 100. This is my favorite example of that concept https://streamable.com/61gtk . At a high level spacing is what determines who wins and loses lane, especially in ranged matchups, and it separates pro players and top tier pro players. The accuracy and speed of your mouse movements and clicks is by far the hardest skill in league, and it's not even humanly possible to hit the ceiling, or honestly even close. Then obviously things like skillshots, teamfight vision, prediction, split second thinking, etc, are the same.

I'd say another big difference is expanding your capacity to multitask. Honestly I'm really tired of typing so this might be scuffed but this is another one that is humanly impossible, but increases sharply at higher levels. Theoretically you want to have such a high mastery of all mechanical concepts that you don't have to put a lot of mental effort into them. In lane you have to think about 1. last hitting, 2. your minions hp 3. your movement 4. your enemys movement 5. your enemys cooldowns 6. jungle tracking 7. map awareness. A theoretical perfect player is constantly wiggling perfectly outside their opponents range, while not looking at their character and their last hits, predicting the enemys movements based on your own minions hp, while tracking the enemy jungler and watching the map. If you're running tp mid and something starts happening bot, or even if you're not running tp and the junglers are fighting in river, you have to do all this while using f keys to look at the fight every second. Literally every player in the world cheats on this. When 1 thing requires more of your attention, the others lack, because your brain can't keep up. In lower levels, a lot of the time things will completely drop. If you're in an intense 1v1 mid, a diamond player might drop all their map awareness and jungle tracking completely, and their cs will lack. Most diamond players won't track enemy lane movements while they're last hitting. They'll drop it for like 0.5 seconds. Their spacing will either not exist for .5 seconds or just be worse. And that sounds small but those refinements are what makes the difference between beating someone and smothering them in lane, where your pressure and your spacing/poking barely dip at all throughout all your last hitting because your last hitting is that good that your eyes don't ever leave the enemy champion. There's definitely more examples to be made but I think my point is clear and I don't want to type anymore.

Well written :) Multitasking is huge, I find it to be the first thing that declines the quickest when you take a break from the game