[2022] Counter Logic Gaming vs. Immortals / LCS 2022 Lock In - Group Stage / Post-Match Discussion

f*ck YEAH LET'S GO CLG!!!!!

Let's be really clear about terminology here:

A scaling pick is a champion (like Kayle, who everyone agrees is a scaling pick) who is weak in the early game but comes online later.

Gangplank is a lane bully with incredibly early access to supporting cross-map plays (by 6 minutes in a 30+ minute game, seems pretty early tbh). He also has a reasonable mid and late game. In what way does that make him a champion who is weak early but comes online later? He can crossmap you before Herald even spawns. Pre-herald is DEFINITELY still early game.

Just because your lategame exists does not mean you're a scaling pick. Some champions (like Gangplank) are relatively flat throughout the game.

So to measure scaling, we're not saying "has power in the mid game or late game" we are measuring the difference between their early game and late game. We are, for example, measuring level 11 power vs level 16 power. Kassadin? Kayle? Scaling picks. Get them to 16. Get them to four items.

Gangplank? Who cares that he got 4 more ranks in Remove Scurvy?

Sona spikes in mid game. She holds onto her power from that point on but she doesn't get substantially more powerful from 11 to 16. Probably the old ultimate passive would make that true, since it gave increasing returns on ability cooldowns. But that's gone. It gives flat haste and caps out relatively early. Sona stops "scaling" relatively quickly.

If your definition of "scaling" is "is at some point stronger than laning phase" and refuse to accept that some champions scale harder than others, I think you're trolling.

Yo do people really not understand that scaling is relative?

Champions have a power level. Either a champion is broken OP and they're the best at every stage of the game (or dogsh*t) or they have relative strengths and weaknesses. This should not be a controversial statement. Either a champion is imbalanced or balanced.

Ziggs is inarguably amazing early game. No one can match his wave clear. No one can 1v2 like him. No one takes turret plates like him. No one gets first turret like him. By any reasonable measure, Ziggs is among the best, if not the single best, early game bot laner in the game.

Now, again, I ask you: Is Ziggs broken OP or does he have strengths and weaknesses?

If your argument is "Ziggs is just the best champion at all stages in the game" then I guess that can be your opinion. Otherwise, if we live in a reality where Ziggs is the best early game champion in the game but also relatively balanced overall (we do) then his weaknesses MUST come from somewhere. They come from his late game. I'll take a six item Jinx or Aphelios over a six item Ziggs in almost every single game.

So I ask you, what does that mean for Ziggs's late game? Does it mean he scales worse than many of the marksmen he's against? Yes it does.