Original Post — Direct link

We got stomped last night by an obviously high elo Zed and Lee sin playing on level 30 smurfs taunting and all chatting gitgud and hardstuck gold.

Our team was gold 2 to silver 4 in Tier 4 bracket.

The Lee and Zed were quite obviously high elo smurfs. Accounts were both level 30 with 80% winrates. No they were not onetricks. And yes we banned out what we could.

The entire point of the Tier system is to get placed in a bracket with similarly skilled people.

By requiring level 60+ or 75+ accounts the smurfing problem won't be entirely gone but it would reduce 90% of the problem without too much effect on the overall player base.

EDIT: Alternatively someone suggested requiring 50 ranked games on the account instead of level 60+ to enter Clash. That would also significantly reduce the problem.

EDIT 2: As noted by others here... The influx of smurfs has a lot to do with the Tier system needing more Tiers. Having a two Plat2 players in a team of all golds can place your entire team in Tier 1 against grandmaster/challenger teams. This means anyone in High Plat / Diamond is more likely to Smurf in clashed than actually play on their mains if the rest of their friends in clash are silver/gold.

External link →
almost 5 years ago - /u/RiotIAmWalrus - Direct link

We're going to continue working against smurfs in Clash - we've got some measures in place already, but we definitely can do better! Smurfs in Clash are a major concern for us, but also a pretty rough problem to completely solve.

Increasing the requirements to play Clash are a possibility, but that carries a lot of risk. We've seen this before with the Honor restriction - even though a relatively small percentage of people were below Honor 2, every one of those people we pulled out of the pool potentially killed a team for 4 other eligible people. Game requirements can have the same problem, eliminating potentially normal accounts both through the restriction and through the people who would like to play with them. It's not off the table, but also something we have to be careful employing.

One thing to note is that the Tier system won't really have anything to do with it - Even within a Tier, you're matched based on the weighted average MMR of your team. So Tier I teams from the bottom portion of Tier I will be more likely to play other Tier I teams from the bottom of Tier I, rather than the Challenger/GM teams at the top. Obviously this line gets fuzzier once it gets near the end of the night, but we've found that most brackets are made within a fairly tight band of team skill. It's something we've been watching closely and tuning since the early betas (and will continue doing).

almost 5 years ago - /u/RiotIAmWalrus - Direct link

Originally posted by lynxbird

So Tier I teams from the bottom portion of Tier I will be more likely to play other Tier I teams from the bottom of Tier I, rather than the Challenger/GM teams at the top.

And this makes it even worse, you are punishing the good players in the same tier by giving them harder opponents just because they are good, while keeping the same rewards in the tier. As it is now, if you have a smurf, there is no good reason to not use it.

And smurfs are often not just the bought accounts, often they are accounts borrowed from friends just for the clash tournament so that the best ranked player does not pull remaining of a team up to next tier, smurfing is a requirement at the moment.

I have a solution tho

LoL successfully copied and improved ELO ranking from chess.

Why you do not use chess Swiss system for the clash tournament.

With 12 rounds you can cover up to 4096 unique teams to find a winner and rank them all. With 14 rounds you can cover 16,384‬ teams per server.

That would be a real tournament and smurfing would be useless, better you are, you rank higher.

Totally get your concern on matching teams of similar skill together, but we think the benefits of competitive games outweigh the min/max potential. Most of Clash's rewards are just for bragging rights anyway, so shifting rewards around to try and deter smurfing is not going to have as much impact. In the case you're describing, where someone smurfs to pull up their friends, they're not getting any rewards on their main account anyway - so making the rewards they're not getting better or worse probably won't change anything.

Definitely not trying to say smurfing isn't a problem - we have a lot more tools at our disposal that we haven't implemented yet, but this is going to be a continuing fight.

Swiss tournaments are pretty good for large groups, but they are very inefficient time-wise. Since you need to wait for a round to complete entirely before moving to the next, if a game runs long it tends to drag out the whole experience, and it also results in too many game starts happening at once when each round resolves. You also end up with potentially complicated tiebreakers (as someone who's played in plenty of Swiss MtG and Netrunner tournaments, I know the pain of missing the cut on Strength of Schedule).

But personally, the biggest argument against Swiss tournaments is that they don't have a particularly good story - you don't know who you're up against until a round starts, most players can't even say how well they're doing until near the end, and players are often incentivized to intentionally draw in the latter rounds. For what Clash is trying to be (a competitive team event that most players can participate in), Swiss tournaments don't really check all the boxes.

almost 5 years ago - /u/RiotIAmWalrus - Direct link

Originally posted by Rojo176

Do you have plans for people who are unintentionally smurfing because they have only completed placements? I don't have the time or energy to climb ranked nowadays but I enjoy playing with my friends. I finished my flex placements so I could get a rank and be eligible for clash, but that rank is very clearly not as good as the rank I finished in last season.

We're still matching you based on MMR rather than your visible rank - so for people operating normally with a limited number of games, you'll usually be rated fairly.