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External link →After Taliyah/Swain/Olaf the team has started up work on a few more midscope updates. Sivir is the next champ who'll be receiving one with more to come in the future! @RiotRayYonggi (/u/RiotRayYonggi on Reddit) is working on her.
External link →After Taliyah/Swain/Olaf the team has started up work on a few more midscope updates. Sivir is the next champ who'll be receiving one with more to come in the future! @RiotRayYonggi (/u/RiotRayYonggi on Reddit) is working on her.
Excited to work on Sivir! Pretty passionate about this project, I can answer some questions here in this thread if you have them.
what will be the goals of this update ?
making her kit less unidirectional or giving her ways to outplay while ?
High level goals are to legitimize her Crit build and play style by giving her more consistent tools to do high DPS at the cost of some of her ability to shuttle teammates around.
This will be done by making her W and Q far more functional for crit builds and giving her a personal DPS buff on R in exchange for some (but not all) of her utility and early poke.
Yes! So excited, I am assuming you’ll be keeping the W and moving her away from being basically shurelyas? Would love more individual power over buffing her team.
That is a primary goal of the changes. “Just a sivir comp” should be because she does high damage, not because she enables Volibear.
Do you have any idea on how you can prevent her from becoming a champion that just stalls out games like she used to?
Waveclear is important to her identity, but there certainly is a limit. On live her waveclear is by far best in class, so aiming to bring that closer to her peers, especially in late game.
Do you think the mana restore on her spellshield is detrimental to both her mana costs and her kit in general? Making it give a short burst of attack speed for example would feel more exciting while also not forcing her mana costs to be 70-110, 75, 100 to ensure she won't have infinite mana. Restoring mana doesn't feel as impactful since mana is irrelevant (for the most part) until you are no longer able to cast your abilities, and on a marksman whose main source of damage should be basic attacking it feels very disconnected, even if her identity is casting spells as part of her dps.
Mana restore is absolutely detrimental to her pattern and we are looking to have sivir go forward with more typical mana distribution.
Will she be getting an actual passive?
Looking to improve (but not replace) each of her spells to keep her familiar but more functional. This means the passive is likely to be augmented but not swapped for something entirely different
Is she going to keep her movement speed utility thought? Or is this all just to give her a solid spot in the meta without her lethality build?
She will still have some movement speed utility but not as sharp
What parts of Sivir's gameplay do you think work really well? What parts do you think are the weakest?
The fantasy of "fast-moving lady with a boomerang that spreads damage" is really compelling and also pretty unique for our roster of marksmen (AOE marksman who is short ranged), but the live kit doesn't really do it justice, especially due to Q and R being REALLY overtuned relative to her other outputs. Hoping to remedy this.
Will you account for both her lethality and crit builds?
The intention is for Crit to be the go-to build in terms of pick-rate and win-rate. This doesn't mean "killing" lethality as an alternate build necessarily, but it won't be the intended playstyle.
I am guessing her Spellshield will remain more or less the same? To me, that seems like one of Sivir's biggest identities aside from farming up until late.
the functionality of blocking a spell with spellshield will stay the same as, like you said, it's core to her identity in League.
Is her auto attack range going to be increased?
It will not be. 500 range is going to be her thing for backline marksmen.
Have you considered giving her aa range?
I think her short range is what pushes her to rely on her Q, thus making her buy lethality more often than crit.
Is waveclear still a defining factor?
Whatever the answers are I'm curious about your thoughts. Good luck with the update, I hope the update is a success.
Yes we have considered Range but decided against it due to it muddying her identity. Having 500 range buys a lot of budget for fun stuff on the rest of the kit.
She will still waveclear very well, but not quite as crazily mid-late as she does currently. Want her to be closer to her peers here while still being clearly the best.
She is the best, by far, to the point she may as well be called "Waveclear, the champion". < Sivir is here
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v
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She is the best, but not too far < Riot wants Sivir here
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Decent waveclear < Everyone else's waveclear
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Pyke waveclear < Pyke
This is a good visual to explain the goal
Reading some of the other comments it seems like you guys are pretty down on Sivir's history as a utility champ with her ult. Can you share why? Is it because it makes her too pro play focused and unpopular? Or something else? I always enjoyed her ult as a thematic nod to Sivir's role as the commander of a mercenary band (and maybe her royal blood), something which is missing elsewhere in her kit. It'd be a shame to see that part of her identity gone imo and its not like she's the only high utility ADC since Ashe, Jhin and Varus all fit in with her there. I also think that having high MS is critical to her gameplay feel due to her range, so between her ult and passive I hope you're still planning on keeping her fast, even if her team isn't benefiting quite as much.
Aside from that, will you still be focusing on her as an AoE monster? I think its fair to say that peak Sivir gameplay is getting kills with Ricochet on backline targets who are barely even on the same screen despite her AA range. Obviously she isn't the only ADC who does that (Twitch/Jinx stand out), but I think the way she does it is uniquely satisfying and would like to see it preserved.
Yes to AOE monster. We still want to maintain the "speed to all allies on R" but don't want it to be so powerful that it's a majority of her budget.
In this case, what will Sivir's niche be? I've always considered Sivir to differentiate herself from other ADCs by offering
Her uniquely strong waveclear
Her ult
If both of these will be reduced, what are the plans to have Sivir differentiate herself from other crit ADCs?
Her niches are:
It seems you want to emphazise on her crit build, correct? Do you think it's healthy for the champ to have 2 avialable builds with crit and lethality? (Kinda like MF or Varus) Or are you looking to shut down/nerf the lethality build in favor of this crit build?
E: Gotta be honest, Lethality Sivir has been one of my fav ADC's this last season because Q poking is just so fun and her R + E means you can play it into pretty much anything. It would be kinda sad if it gets completely removed in this midscope changes. That said, I do understand that the play pattern might be a bit unhealthy so I wouldn't be mad either way
Two builds on a marksman is fine. In sivirs case, I’m hoping to capture the fun parts of lethality and put them into crit (high damage Q, low cooldowns, etc)
Is it the consensus at Riot that ADC should just be crit carries with low utility? I understand that most ADC players restrict themselves to a singular play style, but that should not limit design. One of the most interesting aspects of Sivir is the tradeoff of consistent damage for utility, allowing for interesting strategic decisions starting from draft. Seeing as you plan to shift away from her utility focus, I am disappointed as I had hopes that more utility focused bot laners would be introduced in order to expand strategic diversity.
Not necessarily. While having strategic diversity is important, heavy utility bot laners are exceptionally underplayed even when objectively powerful (I see you Ashe, Sivir, Seraphine). So in this case, allowing Sivir to maintain some utility but not be her primary output is hopefully the key to providing a more resonant experience.
I hope you don't mind multiple questions. 1) Do you plan to add some skill expression to her? 2) Her E being the main reason to be picked in some lanes but being often useless in teamfights whilst being a teamfight champion - any changes on that planned? Also mana refund when people have essence reaver and PoM feels underwhelming.
1) There should be some skill expression added without it being totally foreign to Sivir mains
2) Yeah I’m intending to flatten the usefulness of the E spell shield over game time.
Does her kit need to revolve around mid range? Or maybe she could get a range extension like Kog’maw?
Trying to avoid range extension (outside of lethal tempo) as lower range is one of sivirs defining traits.
I'm excited to see the changes. Do you have any idea of the scope - are all of her abilities going to be slightly changed including her ult, or is it primarily just going to be tweaking stats?
All skills will get small-to-medium adjustments and stats will too. Similar to Swain/Taliyah. That kind of thing
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While I agree it’s valuable to know who players want a midscope for, allowing developers to identify a good opportunity and change a champion without it always being out of “necessity” means better results. For example, Olaf, Sivir, Swain were not objectively the most in need of midscopes, but good ideas came up first so there were opportunities. If we design out of necessity some of the love is lost and we might not always deliver an upgraded experience.
Mid scope updates stay winning
Big fan of midscopes
Big fan of midscopes
So cool to see Riot incorporating that Gen Z slang into our official communications. Sivir is pretty mid rn, deadass needs a glow-up pronto, no cap.
Not that it’s relevant to their question about a fan vote (not too sure why it was deleted) but how often do “passion projects” happen on the team? It’s absolutely beneficial to have someone really excited about working on changes and getting things right, but how does the prioritization work in a case like this if another champ is just in shambles but maybe doesn’t have a clear direction from someone on the team.
Good question. In some cases the "this is in shambles" champions like Taliyah get a owner assigned similar to what you mentioned, and those owners are typically the most experienced designers who can likely improve anything they come across.
Inversely, these "passion projects" can come from anywhere. In my case, I'm actually a Game Analyst by trade, but had a strong understanding of the problem space with Sivir and some ideas to solve it, so I was able to slot in. The trick here is to attack from both sides; necessity and passion.
Yonggi can we expect Sivir's boomerang to bounce on walls as a skill in the upcoming rework?
It will be considered as trickshot and will look flashy imo please consider it.
Best regards
Bouncing on walls isn't going to happen. As cool as that would be, our map isn't designed for projectiles bouncing off walls.
So cool to see Riot incorporating that Gen Z slang into our official communications. Sivir is pretty mid rn, deadass needs a glow-up pronto, no cap.
skull emoji x7