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I just got my level 4 honor Orb. I opened it up and inside was 200 blue essence and 2 keyfragments. Firstly, I already own every champ in the game and have almost 50k spare blue essence, and secondly 2 keyfragments isn't gonna do anything since I need 3 for a key. I am not saying we need an ultimate skin every time we open an Orb, just saying maybe the rewards could be a bit different and actually reward you more for not being toxic.

EDIT: To clarify, I don't mean we need more rewards (as in more skins). I mean that the actual rewards for like honor level 4 and 5 could be more interesting and meaningful. Also you really don't need to be "honorable" which I believe the system was implemented for, but instead you just have to not be a di*k and get punished by the system for it. Flame all you wan't as long as you don't get punished for it.

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over 5 years ago - /u/riotBoourns - Direct link

Originally posted by ohanse

There's a case study in Dan Ariely's "Predictably Irrational" that I think applies here.

There was a day care that started imposing fines on parents being late to pick up their kids. What ended up happening is that once the daycare put a price tag on this behavior, parents were making choices on whether or not they thought the fee was worth the convenience. So they started picking up the kids later and giving the daycare money for the "privilege." The implementation backfired on them.

The comparison is that Riot's gone ahead and put a pricetag on "honorable conduct." It's 200 BE and a couple of key fragments per honor level. If that's the only benefit, why strive for Honor 5? May as well just keep your toxicity levels above permaban or chat restrict territory and not worry about it. You're only missing out on a grand total of 1000 BE and, what, 3 chests in total?

I'm a big fan for Dan Ariely's work! This case study is why we don't do some obvious stuff like give you BE/keyfrags at the end of game screen for every honor you get, which is more analogous to the study. The way we give honor rewards is meant to lower the risk of this outcome, for example: we recognize your sportsmanlike play on login with key frags and orbs so that currency rewards aren't as directly tied to the game you played. We were conservative with the rewards we gave out (and how we gave them) so that they don't subvert the intrinsic motivation to play well in a team. Our decisions were based on best practices derived from behavioral economics studies.

These posts kinda validate that we've avoided one of the big risks of the system: the rewards are too significant and players change their behavior to try to get them (which then leads to really negative effects from people trying to game the system). The purpose of honor is to highlight that playing well with your team is appreciated by others and helps you win. Part of this is giving a little bit more recognition to the overwhelming majority of neutral and positive players for sportsmanlike play (e.g. play to win, don't frustrate your team so it's harder for them to play to win). You don't need to do anything except quietly play the game in order to benefit. We don't want players to strive for honor 5. If you happen to get it, it should be because you believe that consistently playing well with your team in a sportsmanlike manner is the best way to win the game.

To address the OP's sentiment, BE isn't the ideal reward and there's certainly room for more interesting rewards that are of similar value, but more bespoke to the honor system (and something that we brainstormed a lot of ideas for during development, many of them bad :D). I haven't worked on the team in a while though, so I can't really speak more about future intentions.

over 5 years ago - /u/riotBoourns - Direct link

Originally posted by ohanse

Genuinely curious - what does "gaming the honor system" look like?

I have smoothbrain and can't think beyond the example of someone not being "genuine" in their positive conduct. And I'm like "I'd rather have someone fake being nice in my game versus a really sincerely delivered toxic flaming. Like I can really tell that for this 30 minutes, they truly hated me XD."

Well, that probably means we did a good job! As we were testing early iterations of the system we would actually ask the players how they would imagine gaming the system. One sign that we were in a good spot is when most of our answers are what you said.

However, when you first start looking at the problem you might do some really obvious stuff like directly reward people for giving honor, give players flat BE for each honor they get, or give really exclusive and desirable content at high levels. Because people respond to incentive, right? If you go too far you would start seeing things like begging for honor, boosting, honor trading, players threatening to report you if you don't honor them, etc. There's a lot of stuff that is counter-intuitive that we do to reduce the potential for people to game the system. Like we don't tell you who gave you each honor, even though on the surface you would think that would help promote closer bonds between players.