Original Post — Direct link

Note that many changes cannot be easily datamined, such as functionality changes, bugfixes, or mode-specific balance modifiers. Sometimes changes can also take a couple days to show up, even if Riot has already announced them.

 

Changes from today:

Champions:

Azir:
  • no these aren't typos, but they might not be intended to ship given they don't resemble the 13.4 changes at all
  • stats:
    • base health:  622 --> 550
    • mana:  380 +36  -->  320 +40
    • AD:  52 +2.8  -->  55 +3.5
    • attack speed base/ratio:  0.625 --> 0.694
    • attack speed growth:  3% --> 4%
  • P:
    • tower disintegration time:  60s --> 30s (this one appears to be tooltip only, it currently still lasts 60s)
    • tower cooldown:  180s --> 90s
    • tower damage AP scaling:  15% --> 50%
  • Q:
    • rescripted to use data values
    • damage:  70-150 +30% AP  -->  60-120 +45% AP
    • cost:  55 flat --> 60-80
  • W:
    • no longer gains attack speed passively nor when summoning 3+ soldiers
    • soldier damage:  50-150 breakpoints +55% AP  -->  50-90 by rank +60% AP
    • W cost:  40 --> 30
  • E:
    • cost:  60 --> 45
Jarvan IV:
  • someone changed a string value instead of a string key for "passive attack speed", so Jarvan E now thinks it gives "soldier base damage" from Azir's change
Nidalee:
  • has new VO
  • P hunt/brush haste:  10% --> 20%
    • haste toward enemy champions:  30% --> 60%
    • reminder:
      • both hunt and brush haste can stack when away from champions:  20% --> 40%
      • but also cannot exceed a combined value of:  30% --> 60%
  • R no longer tagged as Ultimate
  • R cooldown:  3s --> 1.5s
Tahm Kench:
  • R internal spell is now tagged as Ultimate and ImmobilizingCCSpell (previously only the wrapper had these, this might fix some bugs somewhere)

 

ARAM:

  • two new turret items added:
    • Fortification (same name, but different from existing version):  "Blocks 30% damage of incoming damage [sic].  This effect begins when the Outer Tower is destroyed, and expires after 60 seconds."
      • only the inner/inhib turret has this
    • Tower Power-Up:  "Damage Amplification:  This tower gains bonus damage every minute.  Ice Plating:  This tower gains bonus armor and magic resistance every minute."
      • all turrets have this one
  • all turrets now also have the "self destruction" mechanic from clash
  • unsure if these changes are meant to go into the normal queue too or just PBE testing for ARAM Clash, but they're in custom games regardless
External link →
over 1 year ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

I did the Azir things. I sent them to PBE on purpose. Definitely still a work in progress but I'm pretty happy with everything so far.

Kinda want the PBE reps to help find if there are bugs, so for now I'm keeping it there.

Significant edit: The scrape is inaccurate: W damage is functionally 50-150 >>> 50-200

over 1 year ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by 2th

So what exactly is your goal with these Azir changes?

  1. Base stat changes that skew positively for low-MMR. Base health, scaling armor, and shore up his ability to last hit or function in case his soldiers aren't in play, which is where the base AD comes in. This isn't necessarily a buff in itself, just directionally positive.

  2. Nerf early Q-auto poke but bring it back up late game. Q casts is the single biggest outlier in "Things elite players do that regular players do not." This why his mana pool and costs have changes and the base damage is lower but AP ratio is increased.

  3. Shift power away from the 3-soldier mechanic. The data scrape here is inaccurate: His solder damage at level 18 is 200, up from 150. He still has per-level scaling on the ability but since W no longer has AS on the rank up, it now has damage. I also am intentionally lowering his "free" attack speed to hopefully reintroduce options like Lethal Tempo, Nashor's Tooth, and Berserker's Greaves. Currently Nashor's is about 2% lower win rate than Shadowflame, which feels like a bit of a flavor fail for the auto-attack mage.

  4. This just got submitted so it'll be in the next PBE deploy: Give Azir a real passive. Current version has half the cooldown, half the duration, and somewhat increases its damage. Most notably, it now deals magic damage and applies his spell effects.

over 1 year ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by Raynal7

Gonna need context here. What are we missing? These changes just make Azir dog shit. Tower ap ratio doesn't realistically matter, Q base dmg and mana cost changes mean Azir is garbage in lane.

Fine. Nerf his lane phase, but where are the compensation buffs? Instead W loses massive amount of base damage, for 5% ap scaling?

The Q changes are okay, fine, but he needs compensation buffs here or he will be 40% winrate. Not to mention, taking away the W attack speed?? The buffs to his AS ratio are not nearly enough here.

Would like to see more changes here. The direction is good if you are just aiming to gut his early lane phase and allow him to scale into a dps monster.

W damage is incorrect in the scrape. It's 50-200, up from 50-150

over 1 year ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by Raynal7

f**k yes. Then I think this is amazing work. Nice job with the changes recently, I find it very refreshing as a long time player.

Also, is the W attack speed a mistake as well? I have to assume you arent planning to remove 110% attack speed from max rank W and hope that the new base AS changes make up for it, right?

I intend to remove up to 127% bonus AS from the champion.

Without triple-W this is DPS positive. The value of triple-W can really only be discerned from playtesting. I'm ballparking the compensation.

over 1 year ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by ix-sqt-ix

So the new tower can proc things like luden’s and night harvester but not passives like nashor’s tooth?

Correct. Currently nothing on Azir's kit applies on-hits, which is unchanged here. His W should potentially apply Nashor's on its primary target but that also means it applies Lich Bane and there's just a lot going on there. For now, I'm not desperate to include it, though I think it makes sense for him.

Not sure I'd be comfortable having it apply spells and on-hits, so for now everything applies Luden's, Liandry's, and Rylai's and not Nashor's or Lich Bane.

over 1 year ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by 2th

Phreak, I want you to know that I absolutely love you for how much effort you put into responses like this. Thank you very much for such an explanation.

I got u bae

over 1 year ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by Cube_

All I ask is that after these changes hit the live servers please monitor Azir's game health and continue to iterate based on data for the next 4-5 patches.

The worst feeling in the past with sweeping large changes like this for a champion is when Riot does them and then just starts ignoring the champion. It leaves the dedicated playerbase of the champion alienated and dejected.

If these changes miss on the champion fantasy just please keep trying different things until it is solved.

If the follow-up changes to Alistar and Thresh are any indication, I don't intend to ignore projects I've taken up. If this guy ends up being 40% win rate, it's gonna be micropatch buffs the next day most likely.

It's why I submitted this to PBE on day 1: I really want the feels testing. Power's going to be hard to surmise, honestly. But hopefully the attacks feel better and the turret feels more like it belongs to Azir. Real live gameplay is going to be how we figure out if the triple-solder needs much compensation.

over 1 year ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by Hoshiimaru

I have played this champion for three years, got me to masters last season and I'd like to hear how do you think those changes help him to make him not too picked in pro play? As I understand you are nerfing his early game but he can still sit back and farm with W with perma prio.

Eh, he definitely has less overall dps early game. Not certain he guarantees lane prio when he has 70 less hp for all-ins as well.

Not saying the changes are the perfect silver bullet but I think we get gains. Like if he’s 46% for average players while he’s a pro pick, maybe we get him to 47-48. I still think that’s a win.

over 1 year ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by mikael22

Phreak, what are your thoughts about the Azir keeping shuffle/removing shuffle debate that pops up every time Azir balance is mentioned? Do you think it is fine that a large amount of his power budget is tied into his shurima shuffle?

I think the shuffle is the biggest thing that makes him an interesting pro champion, meaning he is acceptable as a top 5 pro pick, which means we can have a higher solo queue winrate.

I think if we were to remake Azir today, it’d be interesting to see what he’d be like as a shorter range champion. Not sure if that’d be Urgot level or more like Ryze/Cassiopeia. That’s a pretty big change, though, and much more work than the relatively simple stuff here. That’d make shuffle a much more cohesive part of the character, though.

over 1 year ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by ViraLCyclopes19

But I want a dps mage not a burst one with some Utility where it seems he's heading rn with the R and E buffs next patch + this. I think most agree as well, Dps > Burst. Should leave some attack speed scaling somewhere tbh. Don't think base attack speed buffs are gonna justify it enough.

But I'll wait till I see em in action before judging fully.

13.4 was really quick reaction stuff to lower his pro presence. Worse early game, find something not early game to buff.

I think ideally Azir should use both the DPS and Mage halves of his kit. If his R is just a disengage tool, that’s a really flat champion.

The changes here increase his W DPS.

over 1 year ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by UNOvven

Wait, so is the logic basically that some champs are just allowed to perpetually be on the strong/dominant side? Is that why Lee keeps getting massive buffs he doesnt need and why he isnt nerfed even when he is extremely broken?

I mean Lee Sin was like 46% win rate and nowhere to be seen in pro. Seems like a pretty safe buff.

Not all champions are equal in terms of player satisfaction, both playing and watching the game.

Tahm Kench had the game's highest ban rate at 45% win rate. People hated playing against him. Most champions are not Tahm Kench.

over 1 year ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by Jozoz

You're not worried that adding a real passive adds to an already really complete kit with few weaknesses?

I think if his passive is good, this helps bring up his low end a lot. By definition, he has pretty low agency over how the Sun Disk performs, so I believe it'll tend to carry more weight in Bronze than in Challenger.

Now, this almost certainly can't carry the entire burden. Goal #1 is being a fun champion. But right now the passive is really ultra horrible to use and that can get a lot better. So pretty much anything is better than the current state, even if it eats up a little bit of his power budget. Since again, his power level is completely pro constrained and pros are REALLY good at playing around towers, a buff here likely doesn't move the needle a whole lot in pro.

over 1 year ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by Twouseacc

Honestly would be great if the 3 soldier mechanic stayed ,even if at a lower power to keep your intended goals (like W giving 0 free AS ,but 3 soldiers giving 10-30% extra depending on ability rank).

It gives a satisfying feeling of power when you get to use it ,especially lategame when it's more spammable.

I think 3 solder is a bad mechanic and the champion is healthier with it gone, regardless of the other goals of the changes.

over 1 year ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by Twouseacc

ah ,unfortunante.

Also ,what are your thoughts on hitting his early waveclear over base stat nerfs ? (like soldiers having even less AoE early) ,seems like a way to target high elo/pro preformance specifically

I really dislike hitbox size changes. Solders currently deal like 12 damage to minions that aren't the primary target at level 1. Not sure that can go much lower.

In general, he has lower wave clear. Q damage is down, as is his mana pool for pressing it.

over 1 year ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by xMisuto

In my opinion as a main masters azir otp, i think you are aiming at the right direction. Things i would do that should make him more low elo, less high elo:

!!!!Nerf early game laning!!!!!:

- remove Q base dmg, add alot of scaling (you reduced but can be removed tbh)

- buff W a bit to make last hitting easier

- buff base ad (you did that)

- keep mana at pre nerf, mana is a low elo thing, pros manage it way better (i now just run 1 mana rune and dont feel the mana nerfs...)

- !!! IF POSSIBLE: reduce W cs dmg ~50% BUT add a low hp execute on cs to offset !!!!

Buff lategame scalings:

- buff E and R dmg scaling (you did this as well)

- buff W scaling

- keep W passive atkspeed (!! you can remove the tripple atkspeed buff if you think its such a high elo thing, but with enough cdr getting 3/4 soldiers out is normal, so i dont really see why low elo doesnt/couldnt use this !!)

OR

- new passive: CDR/AH = atkspeed

The goal is to make azir more like vladimir, kassadin, asol. Make him weaker in laning, make that you can counter him in lane, make that he can't get the push (very important, whoever gets the push wins early game as/vs azir), make that his poke is ULTRA low early, make his lategame feel good and strong if he survived the early and scaled well.

This will make him so much more low elo instead of high elo.

I dont know why its believed azir is a lategame scaling mage, while he actually wins the game from the first wave since you get the push into perma poke into full prio for jungle into automatically a lead while being safe in lane etc.

If you force azir off the wave you can actually contest and play vs him but his soldiers and atkspeed make sure he cant be contested in wavecontrol. So if we reduce his wavecontrol he IS counterable which he currently just isn't.

99.999% of all azir players play azir "survive and scale to lategame", while the really good azirs play azir "get early prio, to win game AND scale to lategame". It is here where the difference lies. Removing this early prio and playing azir like everyone else should be the solution. (Yes it sucks as a good azir player but i want everyone to have fun and enjoy, so yes lets make azir more accessible at a small cost! ^^)

Let him be a sleeper emperor who slowely arises to his peak :)

I really hope you read this. I'm super passionate about azir and would love to see him work more in soloq/lower elo thn high elo. I personally love the dps/cdr azir style alot and think this is a low elo style. If proplayers stand in soldiers for multiple hits well..... That shouldnt happen. So reducing poke and aiming more for LATE GAME dps should be right.

EDIT: ofcourse i went on PBE to test it out !!!, i ACTUALY LIKE IT ALOT!!!! The only thing i would adjust is his atkspeed, it feels like im forced into atkspeed items/runes. I rather build CDR/AH to command and summon more soldiers! So old passive?! <3 (CDR/AH = atkspeed, since AH has linear scaling its easier to balance as well now ^^)

Thanks for the write-up! I totally agree with you in terms of his actual laning strengths and the directions to go.