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[2020] The current problem with MTG:A is not the standard, it's the reward system pushing everyone to be a spike.


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Everybody talks about agents, lukka, yorion and fires; but these cards will always exist, and are part of spike's weaponry when he competes in tournaments.

However, the problem is MTG:A reward system pushing everyone to become a spike! Just yesterday, I tried to brew around some decks with Rielle. I got like 8 defeats in against tier 0 decks that just steamroll me 1-2 turns before I could get my engine running, and 1 win against someone that got mana screwed. After losing 45min of my time to that nonsense, I just grabbed my Yorion Lukka deck and went to town to get my 4 wins and call it a day.

I strongly believe I am not alone in this situation. A lot of people with time constraints play for the daily wins, and they pick up a spike deck to get the wins ASAP and go do something else.

When you go play in your LGS, you don't leave home with the worry of getting your X daily wins to get a booster or draft ticket, you go there to have fun, either being a timmy, johnny or spike.

What I don't understand is why WotC pushes everyone to be a spike with the daily rewards! We already have ranked ladders and gold/gem invested events where wins get you rewards or higher in the ladder; why do they have to push people playing unranked to also get wins?

WotC should get rid of the daily win reward system and just expand the rewards for the daily quests. Give 1000-1250 gold to cast 40-60 spells to make people play the game, regardless if they win or lose.

(Repost of banned post which included the word 'rant' on the title, thus infringing rule 4 of this sub)

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almost 4 years ago - /u/wotc_kale - Direct link

Originally posted by HectorShadow

But the incentive to get more cards is shared by Johnny, Timmy and Spike. Timmy needs those cards to get big creatures, and Johnny needs diversity to build his jank.

What would you say if the daily reward system was replaced by getting a size 12/12 creature on the board up to 15 times per day? Or if you would have to get 10 different triggers on the stack up to 15 times per day? These would be right up Johnny and Timmy's alley, but MTGA current daily reward system is meant for Spike.

But the incentive to get more cards is shared by Johnny, Timmy and Spike. Timmy needs those cards to get big creatures, and Johnny needs diversity to build his jank.

I still love these archetypes and think about them a lot as I work on the game. It's cool that they are public knowledge, and that players can use them to talk about design in an informed way.

I agree that there is a real need to provide a healthy reward structure for players who are looking for fun, "kitchen-table" games of magic. I don't have any solutions to share, but I will tell you it's something we are currently talking about in leadership and design meetings. This is a great thread and reading people's responses definitely informs our opinions. Thanks for reposting it!

almost 4 years ago - /u/wotc_kale - Direct link

Originally posted by Gh0stP1rate

If you’re looking for ideas, here are some, from a guy who’s been playing kitchen table magic since Odyssey:

  • More a permanent queue like “Standard Shakeup” with healthy rewards just for playing (and not rewards for wins!). Rapidly evolve the banned list to keep things interesting. Add a restricted list = 1-of allowed, or add “pairing” bans - this card by itself might be ok, but not in a combo with that one.
  • Rewards like quests: “Cast a green creature with greater than 5 power while only having mountains and islands in play”. Maybe give players a free re-roll or three on these kinds of bonus quests.
  • Rewards for long games and flashy spells - “Cast a ten mana spell on the 10th turn”
  • A queue with community voted bans / restrictions. If anything, it would be interesting to see how it played out.

Arena has the glorious ability to iterate rapidly, so these can all be launched as standalone events, and you can judge player happiness by how often they play, relative to the rewards. More activity for the same reward structure = you’re on the right path.

Cheers! I hope magic can find a way to bring fun into Arena, and not simply competition (which is fun for some people, but not me, so much)

Thanks for writing this out, we love kitchen table magic too! (I was just brewing an Act of Treason / Lukka / Yidaro deck with one of our producers for play queue shenanigans) Many of the ideas you listed have been part of our conversations, so I think hopefully, we are on the same wavelength with how we will end up solving these problems in the future.

One thing I mentioned in another thread is the idea of being careful with specific daily quests because they can affect the meta. That's why a lot of them seem "vanilla". For example: we tried out some more focused ones - like "Create X Tokens" - and it pushed players towards making token generating decks with no win condition, which wasn't fun for anyone. I personally think it would be fun to have achievements someday that function like the quests you are talking about, but are achievable only once.

Thanks again for the feedback. See you around!

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