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[2021] Combat Test version 6


almost 4 years ago - /u/jeb_ - Direct link

Note: This is a test snapshot, not to be confused with the 1.16.2 pre-releases!

After half a year of hiatus, here's version 6 of the combat test snapshots!

Again there are some radical changes, which means we're still not ready to move on to phase 2 of the tests (which means, fewer system changes and more focused on number balancing). If you have a keen eye you will notice that we are slowly progressing more and more towards something similar to 1.8, but recent twitter comments are saying v5 was great, so... I'm trying to find the sweet spot. Remember, squeaky wheel gets the oil!

Changes compared to previous test

Redesigned aim assist again. Different approach this time, NO LESS CONTROVERSIAL!

  • Removed "Coyote Time"
  • Entities with bounding boxes that are smaller than 0.9 of a block are inflated (for targeting purposes) to be 0.9 of a block (rabbits, bats, etc)
  • Swords always have sweeping attacks again, axes have it with the Sweeping enchantment
  • Missing now only puts a 4 tick delay until the next attack regardless of weapon.
  • Increased base reach to 3 (was 2.5) and removed bonus reach for delayed attacks

Changes to shields:

  • Shields now only protect up to 5 damage for melee attacks (still 100% against projectiles)
  • Shields recover faster after an attack

Changes to axes:

  • Renamed Chopping to Cleaving
  • Removed other weapon enchantments from the enchanting table. The axes simply had too many possible enchantments. It also feels a little bit fitting with a rare Cleaving enchantment than a common Sharpness enchantment for axes

Changes to bows / projectiles:

  • Player momentum is added to thrown projectiles, but only in the direction you are aiming
  • Bow and arrow accuracy now slowly decreases the longer you pull the bow

Changes to food and hunger:

  • Reverted eating time to 32 ticks
  • Eating is now interrupted if something hits you
  • Natural healing is even faster (2 seconds, was 3 seconds)
  • Natural healing drains food 50% slower
  • By popular request - Reintroduced the rule that sprinting requires more than 6 points of food

Other changes:

  • Removed the attack indicator completely since it is no longer used by any systems
  • Fixed knockback calculation
  • Fixed damage value on items being off-by-one client-side
  • Fixed bug that caused players to be unable to attack/interract after respawning
  • Nerfed Sweeping Edge enchantment to 25/33/37.5 percent (was 50/66/75%)

Again, thank you all for your input!

Previous post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/epy4hv/experimental_combat_snapshot_version_5/

Installation instructions:

Finding the Minecraft application folder:

  • Windows: Press Win+R and type %appdata%.minecraft and press Ok
  • Mac OS X: In Finder, in the Go menu, select "Go to Folder" and enter ~/Library/Application Support/minecraft
  • Linux: ~/.minecraft or /home//.minecraft/

Once you have the launcher set up you can download the server files from there as well.

FEEDBACK SITE

In addition to replying here on reddit, you can head over to the feedback site to discuss specific topics here: https://aka.ms/JavaCombatSnap

Cheers!

External link →
almost 4 years ago - /u/jeb_ - Direct link

Note: This is a test snapshot, not to be confused with the 1.16.2 pre-releases!

After half a year of hiatus, here's version 6 of the combat test snapshots!

Again there are some radical changes, which means we're still not ready to move on to phase 2 of the tests (which means, fewer system changes and more focused on number balancing). If you have a keen eye you will notice that we are slowly progressing more and more towards something similar to 1.8, but recent twitter comments are saying v5 was great, so... I'm trying to find the sweet spot. Remember, squeaky wheel gets the oil!

Changes compared to previous test

Redesigned aim assist again. Different approach this time, NO LESS CONTROVERSIAL!

  • Removed "Coyote Time"
  • Entities with bounding boxes that are smaller than 0.9 of a block are inflated (for targeting purposes) to be 0.9 of a block (rabbits, bats, etc)
  • Swords always have sweeping attacks again, axes have it with the Sweeping enchantment
  • Missing now only puts a 4 tick delay until the next attack regardless of weapon.
  • Increased base reach to 3 (was 2.5) and removed bonus reach for delayed attacks

Changes to shields:

  • Shields now only protect up to 5 damage for melee attacks (still 100% against projectiles)
  • Shields recover faster after an attack

Changes to axes:

  • Renamed Chopping to Cleaving
  • Removed other weapon enchantments from the enchanting table. The axes simply had too many possible enchantments. It also feels a little bit fitting with a rare Cleaving enchantment than a common Sharpness enchantment for axes

Changes to bows / projectiles:

  • Player momentum is added to thrown projectiles, but only in the direction you are aiming
  • Bow and arrow accuracy now slowly decreases the longer you pull the bow

Changes to food and hunger:

  • Reverted eating time to 32 ticks
  • Eating is now interrupted if something hits you
  • Natural healing is even faster (2 seconds, was 3 seconds)
  • Natural healing drains food 50% slower
  • By popular request - Reintroduced the rule that sprinting requires more than 6 points of food

Other changes:

  • Removed the attack indicator completely since it is no longer used by any systems
  • Fixed knockback calculation
  • Fixed damage value on items being off-by-one client-side
  • Fixed bug that caused players to be unable to attack/interract after respawning
  • Nerfed Sweeping Edge enchantment to 25/33/37.5 percent (was 50/66/75%)

Again, thank you all for your input!

Previous post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/epy4hv/experimental_combat_snapshot_version_5/

Installation instructions:

Finding the Minecraft application folder:

  • Windows: Press Win+R and type %appdata%.minecraft and press Ok
  • Mac OS X: In Finder, in the Go menu, select "Go to Folder" and enter ~/Library/Application Support/minecraft
  • Linux: ~/.minecraft or /home//.minecraft/

Once you have the launcher set up you can download the server files from there as well.

FEEDBACK SITE

In addition to replying here on reddit, you can head over to the feedback site to discuss specific topics here: https://aka.ms/JavaCombatSnap

Cheers!

External link →
almost 4 years ago - /u/jeb_ - Direct link

Originally posted by is_not_robot

Some feedback on PVE

Melee combat in this snapshot feels a lot worse than, say, V2. I can't say for sure, but I'd say a lot of that is due to the combination of hit compensation, no incentive to charge attacks, high attack speeds, high knockback and powerful auto-attacks.

I do like where health regen is at, and I love how taking damage causes a negative feedback loop and endagers your ability to sprint. No real opinion on bows or shields as of yet, but maybe shields should feel more consistent in the way they block damage. It's hard to tell when you'll get punished even though you've blocked.

Also, about auto-attacking.

I know you previously said that was a highly controversial feature even back in the first snapshot. I understand that some people really want it to stay.

As someone who's not a fan, could I add a suggestion?

I get the sense that auto-attacks are just a different way to do the same thing. There's no real difference in gameplay despite a difference in input, and holding down the mouse to swing isn't at all as engaging as charging an attack or timing your hits is. Not only that, but it's not as versatile to combat as charged swings since it acts the same as a regular attack.

I think that's why a lot of people, me included, think it kind of "breaks" the game, while charged swings improve it.

Instead of trying to balance it to match timing your hits, why not make it its own thing?

Instead of having charged attacks be special, invert it: auto-attacks should have different damage, knockback, range, speed and effects (like sweeping, or maybe some new ones) than regular clicks. It would be like having two different attack "modes", each with pros and cons.

If auto-attacking complimented timed hits in their own unique way rather than being an alternative to them, I think the general opinion on the feature would go from "controversial" to "useful" or "interesting"

Edit: cleared up a bit. What I meant is that if auto-attacks complimented regular attacks by acting differently tp them, balancing them would probably be easier, and they might become less controversial than as of now. I don't think nerfing them is the answer either

Yes, in the next version I've reintroduced the charged attacks. Adds more options.

Regarding auto-attack... One of the reasons for the combat tests is to bring Java and Bedrock to parity. It will be greatly helpful when we are designing features in the future. But on Bedrock we have millions of controller players, and being able to hold the trigger to attack is a necessity. Removing auto-attack from Java, or putting large penalties to it, will move us out of parity again.

almost 4 years ago - /u/jeb_ - Direct link

Originally posted by emperorofdogs37

8-10 damage is going to make it like it was before, 100% block in most cases.

Sharp 5 diamond swords do 10 dmg. You would need a sharp diamond axe to do 11 dmg.

I would agree with something like 6 damage, enough to block an iron sword without a critical hit. Keep in mind a shield that takes 1 iron to make should not block a sharpness 5 diamond sword. I think shields would be best balanced in iron 1v1s, but I would like a replacement for them that would cost more, but be better, for god armor 1v1s.

Initially I actually had 6 (3 hearts) but lowered it to 5 so that a non-crit diamond sword would pass through one point of damage.

Another reason for lowering it was that it allows us to add better shields in the future. One suggestion was that a banner on a shield would increase its strength by 1, but this feature isn't implemented on Bedrock yet.

almost 4 years ago - /u/jeb_ - Direct link

Originally posted by RealLethalChicken

I think that eating should heal a small amount of health, maybe however much hunger it recovers minus 2, with a minimum of 0. Then you still get an instantaneous bonus from eating without anything as overpowered as the saturation healing.

I also think that mobs should have the same range as players with the same weapon types, so that a swarm of zombie piglins or wither skeletons can still hit you.

Edit: one last thing, sweeping attacks should have a small cooldown without the sweeping edge enchantment, and you could give the sword ui indicator a purpose again.

I'd rather improve potions somehow

almost 4 years ago - /u/jeb_ - Direct link

Originally posted by TOAO_Dallas_Texas

Hey Jeb! I played around with snapshot 6 for awhile and I have some suggestions for the next snapshot:

Shields

  • Like in 1.9, I think shields should block all if not most damage from explosions
  • Shields could have their own unique enchantments, specifically one that increases the amount of attack points blocked in exchange for more cooldown between each block

Swords/Axes/Weapons

  • Like other people have suggested, I think Sweeping Edge should either be tied to the enchantment or have it only activate on a regular sword while sneaking
  • Add back in weapon enchantments for axes like Looting and Smite, but keep Sharpness and Sweeping Edge exclusive to swords
  • Keep the delay for both missing and landing a hit the same, since it makes auto-clicking incredibly over-powered
  • Re-add in the 200% mechanic for critical attacks because of how it both incorporates the timing-based combat of 1.9 and makes critical attacks more balanced compared to 1.8 combat
  • Bring back the attack indicator, which helped to indicate when an entity is within range, as well as add an option to disable it
  • Make spam-clicking deal less knockback and bring back the added reach of 200% attacks (Helps to give more advantages/disadvantages between the two types of combat)

Bows/Projectiles

  • Increase the distance of thrown projectiles when added to player momentum, as it seems to be a very minor difference in this snapshot
  • Replace the inaccurate bow mechanic with a decrease in power and/or range depending on how long the player pulls the bow

Armor

  • Instead of making weapons weaker, I think making early armor stronger might help make fights more balanced. For example, here are some of the changes that I would personally make:
    • Leather armor increased to 4 1/2 armor points (Tunic: +4, Pants: +3)
    • Gold armor increased to 6 armor points (Leggings: +4)
    • Chainmail increased to 6 1/2 armor points (Boots: +2)

Food

  • Add different eating times for specific foods like with Dried Kelp
  • Replace the food interruption mechanic and instead increase the time it takes to finish eating food when hit (For example, getting hit while eating Steak would increase the ticks from 32 to 36 but wouldn't restart the timer)
  • Make it so a half a hunger point will regenerate a full heart instead of only half a heart, as it currently feels like hunger drains way too quickly

And that's it! To me, I believe the new combat should be a blend between 1.8 and 1.9, so that's why I hope things like 200% attacks make a return in some way! Have a good one Jeb and I hope this feedback proves useful to you. :)

Great feedback.

Yes I agree, shields should block explosions. I should look more closely on the damage types and make exceptions for more than just projectiles.

Regarding the armor vs weapon balance. The reason why we needed to make armor weaker was because the difference between having armor and no armor was too big. We had to give mobs really high attack values to make them matter for armored players, but non-armored would get slammered.

And then players already deal damage similar to the strongest mobs (Ravagers deal 12, which is similar to a crit by a player). Tuning this down slightly felt like the right move.

Regarding food I think there will be opportunities to add variety to food types, but I'd also like to make potions better somehow.

almost 4 years ago - /u/jeb_ - Direct link

Originally posted by Theverylowkey666

I just noticed that netherite hoes do 2 damage while iron and diamond hoes do 3. They should probably do 3 or even 4, considering netherite is supposed to be an upgrade from diamond and not a downgrade.

Oh great catch! I've forgotten to update the Netherite items in this branch

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