Original Post — Direct link

I keep hearing in discussions that: -Rapiers were specifically created as stabbing weapons to attack weak points in, or pierce increasingly heavy plate, and they're fine doing as much damage as they do against L3 armor in Mordhau.

This is historically false. The word 'Rapier' comes from the spanish espada ropera (literally: robe sword), and came about as long, narrow, flexible blades specifically made for the close quarters urban fighting and civilian duels of the 16th century took hold.

Due to the advances in gunpowder at that time, heavy armor outside of calvary was on its way out, and the concept of the noble and gentlemanly honor duel and unarmored fencing was on it's way in.

There were stiff, strong thrusting weapons meant to deal the aforementioned puncture damage to heavy armor, as well as heavy poleaxe and spiked-head weapons to simply go right through it. Rapiers do not resemble any of those, and consequently were not used on the battlefield with shields and full plate like we see now- perhaps outside being the sidearm of command officers, who's gunpowder armies would not be be facing ancient men at arms, Vikings, or umounted knights.

So don't tell me that stabbing through smithed steel with a blade meant to bend and retain it's shape against cloth and flesh is a thing. Just no.

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over 5 years ago - /u/Jaaxxxxon - Direct link

realism doesn't equal good gameplay, the rapier is just meant to be a quick pokey weapon, and it lacks the damage that other stab based weapons do, such as estoc - and even has more hits-to-kill when compared to stuff like the poleaxe

over 5 years ago - /u/Jaaxxxxon - Direct link

Originally posted by WardenOfLight

It still should be reflected in the stats as a downside to the weapon. Because of how important flinching is, it's stupidly strong against pretty much everything, and flinching from a glanced poke to a metal cuirass is silly, even in this game.

we prototyped a change to the rapier, which we dubbed "the hitscan rapier".
It was essentially changing the slashes to not flinch and be insanely fast (think carving knife), but reducing the damage it does significantly, especially against armor.

It was really fun, but there were a few problems with getting "vortexed" by it when you misparried and took a hit, as there are some things in the mechanics that would need adjustment to make it not broken. If we can get around to making some small changes to the flinch/parry system (and especially how they work together) it's likely we would bring this back. It would make the rapier very fun to use, but also gimp its ability and make it easier to defeat if you knew what you were doing.

The thing with flinch is that it's needed to prevent hit-trading, so we probably can't remove it from the rapier's main mode without making the weapon completely useless. Mordhau isn't realistic, but sometimes I like to abstract the game mechanics when I'm playing. For example, stba drags i feel are kind of similar to draw/push cuts IRL, and when it comes to stabbing a guy in the chest with a rapier, it's just a necessary evil since there are no weak spots for armor in the game (they just wouldn't work properly above like 5ms ping).