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Old School RuneScape
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4s | hello everyone and welcome to today's |
---|---|
6s | live stream I'm your host miza and I've |
8s | got the lovely mod Kieran with me hey |
10s | mod Kieran how are you hello I fantastic |
13s | how are you |
15s | aa oh so nice of you to ask the host I'm |
17s | good thank you yeah it's it's like we're |
19s | back at the summit again only we're in |
21s | the comfort of our own rooms rather than |
23s | the the lovely set with the |
25s | grapes but I'm doing good thank you what |
27s | have you been up |
28s | to um you know what for once in a long |
32s | time I was actually doing some runes |
34s | script this week um wow the for anybody |
38s | familiar with the Ember |
40s | light if if you're trying to upgrade the |
43s | ark light you need 10,000 charges you |
45s | get infusion as you go but if your Ark |
47s | light runs out of charges it will |
49s | degrade into a dark light and lose all |
51s | infusion progress so I'm try I'm looking |
54s | to address that and so instead the ark |
57s | light will uh go into like an ark light |
59s | inactive state something anyway enough |
61s | enough Babel but I've been trying to get |
63s | that |
64s | sorted nice one I love it when you |
67s | trying out content you can always tell |
69s | what what you've been playing because in |
70s | the next few weeks there'll be a round |
71s | of changes just added to the backlog of |
73s | like oh we can fix this you just coded |
75s | them in an evening oh dear literally I |
78s | mean I had I suffered that for everyone |
81s | that's that's why I was like oh my God |
83s | this is how it works I need to sort that |
85s | that's very much how what happened |
87s | brilliant I love that all right well |
89s | let's get into it why are we here today |
91s | well as hopefully most of you know um |
94s | what is it like a week ago two weeks ago |
96s | now we had the summer Summit on the 7th |
98s | of September where we shared our road |
100s | map with you that lasts up until pretty |
102s | much the next Rune Fest which is in |
104s | March as part of that we did a gigap |
107s | which is now closed and you obviously |
109s | got chance to vote on a wholeo of |
111s | content Valore the Final Dawn game Jam |
114s | quality of life updates and loads more |
116s | in there uh including grath Moore which |
119s | didn't quite hit the mark I'd say |
120s | actually that's a little bit of an |
121s | understatement it it failed pretty |
123s | catastrophically in the poll system one |
125s | of our worst result resulting polls in |
128s | in all of history actually I think it's |
130s | ranked in the top 10 of of most failed |
132s | so that's quite an achievement I guess |
135s | um but what we what we wanted to do was |
137s | essentially have the stream to talk |
138s | about rfhm more generally talk about the |
140s | feedback that we've seen the things that |
143s | uh we want to do moving forward so we |
146s | are intending to uh revisit rfhm more as |
149s | a concept |
151s | um so today we're going to talk about |
152s | what we're planning to do with that and |
153s | how we're going to move forward with it |
155s | as well as answering as many questions |
156s | as we can um one of the things that we |
158s | got to make absolutely clear obviously |
160s | is that moving forward doesn't mean that |
161s | it's just going to get added into the |
163s | game what we've essentially done is |
165s | we've noticed that there was quite a |
166s | large amount of demand for a world boss |
168s | generally but there were a lot of issues |
170s | with rmore and the way that it was |
171s | presented that we think we can actually |
173s | fix quite easily to be able to bring it |
176s | more in line with what you expecting |
177s | give a little bit of everything for |
179s | everyone and and then see how it fares |
181s | again in the poll system so it's not |
183s | entirely unheard of us for us to do this |
184s | with content that's failed um we've got |
187s | a Blog that's going to be coming out |
188s | next week which is going to go into a |
189s | bit more detail about our reasoning |
190s | behind like looking forward more so than |
192s | we can in this live stream but |
194s | essentially if we feel like there is a |
196s | lot of feedback that we can action that |
198s | would warrant enough of a design change |
200s | to actually look at reping something |
202s | then we will do so and we have done in |
204s | the past we're going to continue to do |
205s | that and that's what this is about so |
208s | before we get into it I'm going to go |
209s | through few announcements I'm going to |
211s | let chat calm down a little bit I see |
213s | all of your NOS but you know maybe those |
215s | NOS can turns into yeses if you just |
216s | keep a opene mind and hear what we've |
218s | got to say read the blog and then make |
220s | your own mind up after you've seen the |
221s | redesigned version rather than what you |
223s | saw before which we know wasn't great um |
226s | but yeah in that time whilst everyone's |
228s | calming down exclamation mark beta the |
231s | open beta for Paul 82's winter to |
232s | changes is live now mod Goin also just |
234s | put out a new blog earlier this |
236s | afternoon that talks about some of the |
238s | things that we've taken in on board from |
239s | your feed back from the live from the |
241s | live stream we're on the live stream |
243s | from the beta that we're going to |
244s | hopefully look to implement before that |
246s | new revised winter Todd version goes out |
249s | so if you want to check out of that Blog |
250s | full rundown of the changes and a crash |
253s | course on beta testing in old school |
254s | then exclamation mark beta is the |
256s | command that you want to use next we |
258s | have exclamation mark vmore because it |
260s | is time for vmore the rising darkness is |
263s | actually out next week so on Wednesday |
265s | September 25th mark your calendars |
267s | because the second expansion for volore |
270s | is coming out then and there is a whole |
272s | load of content not going to go through |
273s | it all check out exclamation mark volore |
275s | if you want to know what's going with |
276s | there then we have exclamation about |
278s | modcast so if you missed it on our |
281s | official Discord server mods son and TJ |
283s | talked all about project zanaris and |
285s | answered some pretty good questions |
287s | actually a lot of questions that I'd |
289s | expect most people weren't anticipating |
291s | that we would actually ask and answer if |
293s | you want to check that out exclamation |
294s | modcast the whole recording of that |
296s | stage call is now live all transcripted |
298s | so on so forth I think we're also going |
299s | to post a transcript of the actual blog |
302s | uh sorry of the stage call in a blog as |
304s | well so if you don't want to watch the |
305s | video and you read instead then that's |
307s | all going to be there for you and then |
309s | lastly on the topic of stages if you |
312s | want to get involved in future modcs |
313s | make sure that you're in our Discord |
315s | server exclamation mark Discord for that |
317s | we do post on socials when they're going |
318s | to happen but there's also announcements |
320s | and all that kind of stuff and there's a |
321s | whole huge growing community on the |
323s | Discord server so go check it out okay |
326s | there's the announcements out of the way |
328s | let's talk a little bit about overall |
331s | and let's keep it very top level kin uh |
334s | about the design and what is essentially |
337s | going to be different and there's a load |
339s | of questions that will make a lot of |
340s | this probably make more sense for those |
342s | of you that are watching at home but |
343s | just you know off the top of your head |
344s | what do you think are the biggest |
345s | changes that we've made to the design |
348s | ready for when we want to share it with |
349s | the |
352s | players um the time gating is a |
356s | humongous point of feedback um we |
358s | absolutely seen that we we've seen that |
360s | being spammed in the chat today we've |
362s | seen that all over social |
364s | media absolutely a no in Old School in |
368s | general now for what it's worth this is |
371s | something we we recognized and we knew |
373s | this was a risk going into it in fact |
376s | it's something we actively do avoid in |
378s | pretty much everything we do in my mind |
381s | there is enough chores in all school |
384s | with respect to just like we've have a |
385s | whole skill farming is essentially a |
388s | kind of time Gatey like feure bird |
391s | houses even doing your herb runs there's |
393s | enough stuff like that that kind of |
395s | gives you it feels like a chore to go |
397s | and do every hour or two or whatever |
399s | anyway that as side we understand |
401s | it with the boss we were trying to go |
405s | for something along the lines of sort of |
407s | you intentionally want to bring pvpers |
408s | together so you have the pvpers will |
411s | fight one another and so on Spike the |
413s | traffic for PVP that said we've heard it |
416s | all so that's a that's a big change |
418s | immediately we know we know we need to |
420s | increase the frequency of spawns etc etc |
423s | and assess the spawning mechanics so |
425s | that you get something that it doesn't |
428s | feel like that whatsoever it's it's it |
431s | could be more unequivocally clear that |
433s | nobody wants um like a fear of missing |
436s | out like like strategy with with the |
438s | spawning mechanics so that's one major |
441s | thing um the Wilderness feeling forc to |
444s | go into the Wilderness is another big |
446s | deal we're trying to look at and look at |
448s | how to solve that um um one thing we've |
451s | been considering is a lot of the time |
454s | you get new PVP content it gives pvps |
457s | more stuff to be able to kill you with |
458s | easily if you're less of a pvper we very |
462s | rarely explored more defensive options |
464s | and and that sort of thing so we're |
467s | looking at that and we're also |
468s | considering whether we can explore a |
471s | non-wilderness version of the boss |
474s | essentially so a lot of people have |
476s | talked about sand literally using the |
479s | word sand that's the sort of word we've |
481s | been using internally and whether we can |
483s | have a massive desert sandworm boss now |
488s | that might be something we do |
489s | alongside rathmore in the wilderness and |
492s | they could work together in some |
494s | capacity like your rewards from the sand |
496s | boss might help you in the wilderness |
498s | one defensively like these are the sort |
500s | of things we're exploring it's not fully |
502s | necessarily like refined yet but |
505s | ultimately I hope what's clear is we've |
508s | heard your criticism this isn't us just |
511s | coming back with the same pitch again |
512s | with a few small tweaks we are trying to |
515s | make pretty drastic changes to what |
518s | rathmore is as a as a full package with |
521s | potentially sandmore as well to give you |
524s | something that does give you hopefully |
525s | something you want with the spawning |
527s | mechanics that don't make you feel |
529s | you're forced to log in at a certain |
530s | time every day Etc so I don't know maybe |
534s | I've missed some elements I use it but I |
536s | think that's the |
538s | gist I think I think you did a pretty |
540s | good job yeah I did ask specifically for |
542s | a very top level because I realize the |
544s | more you speak the more that the |
545s | questions we have prepared are going to |
547s | start getting ansed yeah yeah so yeah |
549s | the the blog will come out next week so |
551s | everyone gets a chance to read through |
552s | it there and uh I will just say one more |
554s | time for everyone in chat like I get it |
556s | I understand where you're coming from |
558s | there's a lot of like you know we said |
559s | no no means no and you're right no means |
561s | no we know that that is the case too and |
564s | as Kieran said we're not looking to just |
566s | put out the same design there's a whole |
567s | load of changes and this is the first |
570s | step in looking at like a pre-approval |
573s | process in essence we're going to put |
575s | forward a new design with a survey we're |
577s | going to figure out whether or not it's |
578s | something that you even like enough for |
580s | us to Warrant reping it in the first |
582s | place so there's no guarantee that |
584s | whatever it is that we're going over |
585s | that we're going to share with you that |
586s | we're going to talk about today is even |
588s | going to get reped it will entirely |
590s | depend on how you all as a community |
592s | receive that updated design so I'll just |
595s | ask one nice one more time very nicely |
597s | let's hold off on the spam around no |
599s | means no we get it let's maybe talk |
601s | about things that we can actually give |
602s | more feedback on and uh and help answer |
605s | more questions but if you want to spam |
607s | like feel free I can't stop you from |
608s | doing that if that's how you enjoy your |
609s | evening then you know what all the B to |
612s | you I'll let you guys cook but first |
614s | question what were the aims of the |
616s | initial rafall design and how do you |
619s | think the initial proposal was trying to |
620s | achieve those aims let's try and get a |
622s | little bit of fundamental understanding |
624s | where we were coming |
625s | from so I started to allude to it a |
627s | little bit but one of the problems we've |
630s | had with a lot of these PVP pieces of |
632s | content and people will obviously site |
635s | the Zombie Chaos pirate stuff as a big |
639s | contentious a big pool of contention |
642s | around Bots Al the amount of alchemy it |
646s | worries about the economy how easy it |
648s | was to obtain really fast gold |
650s | generation it was difficult to even kill |
652s | the Bots like there's all those sort of |
653s | concerns is one |
655s | thing another concern is this aspect of |
660s | feeling forced to go into the Wilderness |
661s | mixing pvm not wanting to feel like |
664s | you're a luk |
666s | pinata and we try to come up with a |
668s | design that we feel |
670s | like try to not do those that might |
673s | sound weird at first but let me let me |
675s | expand |
677s | so we intentionally limited the amount |
680s | of Worlds and spawns because we wanted |
684s | to be unequivocally clear that you |
687s | cannot avoid PVP |
690s | like if there's imagine imagine if it |
692s | was more extreme one world one spawn a |
695s | day like we're going for to try and be |
697s | inspired by breaches and dead man but it |
700s | would bring everybody to the same place |
702s | the idea being pvps would come together |
705s | it would naturally spawn maybe a bit |
706s | more organically Clan V Clan fights that |
709s | sort of thing especially when it spawns |
711s | in |
713s | multi we weren't aiming it at pvmers so |
716s | we've heard obviously a lot of people |
718s | say as a pvm I don't want to go into the |
720s | Wilderness but like ultimately we |
721s | weren't actually aiming at pvmers we |
723s | were aiming to give content that pvpers |
727s | themselves would go and engage in in |
729s | order to get in PvP fights and stuff as |
731s | well so that that was part of it that's |
734s | also why the rewards are trying to lean |
736s | towards stuff that pvmers wouldn't be |
738s | interested in now I think it's fair to |
740s | say we've misunderstood that and have a |
743s | and have a gauge with something that's |
745s | wrong there there's enough pvmers want |
748s | to be able to kill the new boss it's |
749s | exciting oh my God a cool worm boss I |
751s | want to go fight it there's an innate |
753s | desire to take take part even if it |
756s | isn't aimed at pvm as necessarily |
758s | directly there's enough other reasons as |
760s | well combat achievements collection logs |
762s | like whatever else that they always |
764s | going to be pvms with an interest and |
766s | taking part of it and it and it also |
769s | always feels bad to feel like you're |
771s | potentially excluded from a piece of |
772s | content too so that's one big part of it |
776s | the other thing with Bots and Alchemy |
779s | economy |
780s | is limiting the spawns also makes that |
782s | basically impossible you know if Bots |
785s | turn up well damn right they're not |
786s | going to get away with it there's going |
788s | to be other people there other people |
790s | will able to kill them other people will |
791s | be able to get a better you know do more |
793s | damage to the boss and the bot will not |
795s | do very well so by very nature of its |
797s | design it's less dependent on bot |
800s | detection and just sort of excludes bots |
803s | in the first place |
805s | so that was also something we were |
807s | trying to compete with um this led us |
810s | down this path um cuz ultimately we |
813s | don't really see it as viable to say hey |
816s | the boss is around on every single game |
818s | world every five minutes like every |
820s | other boss we we want it to feel |
822s | different we want it to be this world |
824s | boss feeling thing where lots of people |
826s | come together um and as I say because |
828s | lots of people are coming together you |
830s | have to go prepared for PVP it's not |
833s | something you can go into like like like |
836s | veon or venon turn up ready for pvm just |
839s | run away from the pvper you're almost |
841s | certainly going to have to take part in |
843s | PvP that was the intention um obviously |
846s | I'm not going to sit here and we're not |
847s | trying to defend it we're trying to just |
849s | give you an idea of where it came from |
851s | why we decided to pitch in that way and |
854s | it genuinely wasn't an intention to |
857s | create like a fear of missing out style |
861s | update that goes into the reward system |
864s | and ultimately what you don't |
866s | necessarily see at this early in the |
868s | process is |
870s | the balancing of the rewards the and how |
872s | many teeth you would need combat |
874s | achievements would have been really |
875s | simple collection log would have been |
877s | literally one kill to get the teeth and |
879s | that would have been it so there's a lot |
881s | of execution stuff to do right so it |
883s | doesn't feel like a sort of Fe missing |
886s | out I have to log in every day sort of |
888s | thing um anyway yeah I've I've made a |
891s | lot of points it's maybe a bit jumbled |
894s | um we're trying to create a picture of |
896s | why we thought this was the right |
898s | approach |
901s | cool thank you Karen I think you did a |
903s | really good job of covering just the |
905s | yeah the fundamentals of of what it was |
907s | that we were doing and why obviously |
909s | that's not in relation to what we're |
910s | going to be proposing as the new design |
913s | a lot of that and those uh issues that |
915s | Kieran has highlighted that we realize |
917s | now are going to have been resolved so |
920s | um make sure that we don't confuse that |
922s | with what the new proposal is trying to |
924s | achieve yeah but going back to the old |
927s | proposal now uh you know I mentioned at |
929s | start of the call it's one of the worst |
931s | um fairing Poes that we've had in a very |
934s | long time in in all of old school's |
936s | history in fact uh so it failed pretty |
939s | catastrophically and after now seeing |
941s | the results and the feedback from |
943s | players why do you think graph more |
945s | failed the poll and I'll I'll happily |
946s | jump in as well in a few points so you |
948s | don't have to just chat all the way on |
950s | your |
951s | own I you mentioned the the vast |
954s | majority of it but |
956s | um firstly we know there's problems the |
959s | design because PVP content does pass |
962s | polls I don't want to say unilaterally |
963s | that the community constantly vote no to |
966s | PVP because it that's not the case we |
969s | have seen things go through polls so |
971s | that is legit issues here um time |
975s | getting in for you're missing out you |
976s | know I've mentioned it plenty already I |
978s | think that's the number one major |
981s | problem there's concerns around Clans |
984s | and potentially locking these spawns |
985s | down and being able to take advantage |
987s | out of it that is more so a concern |
989s | conern because of how many how few |
991s | spawns there |
993s | are there's worry about how long it'll |
995s | take to get the rewards obviously that |
997s | is exacerbated by the time gating you |
999s | know if if it if it's say a thousand |
1001s | teeth and you get 10 teeth a day it's a |
1003s | 100 days of doing it I'm just making |
1005s | numbers up but that would be the worry |
1006s | it's a long-term commitment you have to |
1008s | keep |
1009s | doing um and then we're going into sort |
1012s | of the forced into the Wilderness sort |
1014s | of thing if you're a pvm you don't want |
1016s | to engage in PvP but you feel like you |
1018s | want to get these new Rewards you want |
1019s | to engage in rathmore you feel compelled |
1022s | that you almost have to go and do it and |
1025s | to some extent it's true if you want to |
1027s | get your collection log you're GNA have |
1028s | to go and kill at least one you had to |
1030s | get your combat achievements which |
1032s | probably would have been it' probably be |
1033s | pretty simple but you'd have to go and |
1035s | engage with it to some extent |
1038s | um there's concerns that the proposed |
1040s | rewards would just make it easier for p |
1043s | peakers to to kill you that you |
1046s | essentially you're becoming a loot pin |
1048s | and all this system are just driving it |
1050s | in a way that pvpers will find it easier |
1052s | and easier to just turn you into |
1055s | Loot and and some players feel like |
1059s | ultimately PVP and pvm just doesn't |
1062s | really mix like it's it's Troublesome |
1064s | and it's not just a rathmore point that |
1067s | it has issues across other pvm content |
1069s | in the wilderness already um it's not |
1072s | the first time we've heard the the loop |
1073s | Pata forced to go to the worldy kind of |
1076s | kind of arguments this has been present |
1077s | for many of the other pieces we've put |
1079s | there as |
1082s | well yeah definitely I think that one is |
1085s | very was very prevalent with wrath more |
1087s | in the feedback that we saw obviously |
1089s | all of the points you raised we saw a |
1091s | lot of conversation around but there |
1093s | were so many posts that I saw and people |
1095s | commenting around not wanting to be the |
1097s | the loop pinatas and that's where I'd |
1099s | really want to understand which is what |
1100s | we're aiming to do with this new |
1102s | proposal we have a survey that's going |
1103s | to ask around General Wilderness |
1105s | questions and PVP as opposed to |
1107s | specifically to rathmore but it yeah |
1110s | it's trying to understand like where |
1111s | that feeling comes from and I think we |
1113s | we have a good enough idea already right |
1115s | it's like you've mentioned collection |
1116s | log combat achievements and if the |
1118s | rewards are useful outside of the |
1120s | Wilderness then people are going to feel |
1121s | a need to to to have them but if we were |
1124s | able to combat those really easily would |
1126s | people still feel like that that they |
1128s | have to go and experience this content I |
1131s | would love to know if there is a point |
1133s | that we could get to where Wilderness |
1134s | content that is very specifically for |
1136s | people who like being in the wilderness |
1139s | is accepted by those who don't care |
1141s | about the Wilderness because they don't |
1142s | need to go there um there there's so |
1146s | much Nuance with those like you know how |
1148s | do you feel Kieran if we were to |
1149s | introduce new content in the wilderness |
1150s | moving forward that didn't have any |
1152s | combat achievements or that the rewards |
1154s | weren't in the collection log because I |
1156s | think generally speaking that sounds |
1158s | weird it doesn't sound right given that |
1161s | every item pretty much is in the |
1162s | collection log and these would have |
1164s | rewards so even if it was a PVP only |
1167s | item we still have to add it to the club |
1169s | collection log right do you see a world |
1170s | where we could get around that and and |
1172s | make even more exceptions to to not |
1174s | allow it or is this just something that |
1176s | we have to make sure that you know |
1178s | collection loggers if you are a |
1180s | collection logger if you are looking to |
1181s | quote unquote complete the game then you |
1184s | have to engage in all aspects of content |
1185s | that's |
1186s | available yeah I mean I think as you |
1191s | said it sounds weird but I think almost |
1192s | the first step is we want to get a |
1195s | better understanding from from you guys |
1197s | the community on why you feel compelled |
1201s | or forced to go and partake in this |
1204s | content that's that's one thing and |
1206s | there's probably lots of |
1208s | reasons presumably to some extent combat |
1210s | achievements in collection log do play a |
1213s | role but I'm sure it's more than just |
1214s | that as well and and maybe some of it's |
1216s | almost just emotional like you want to |
1218s | play the content um because you like the |
1221s | idea of fighting a giant wor boss and |
1224s | that itself makes you feel bad about it |
1226s | but we need to understand that I'd be |
1229s | willing to consider it but you you're |
1231s | right it does sound weird why isn't this |
1233s | thing I can collect on my collection log |
1235s | it should be inclusive of everything um |
1238s | think com achiev not being included |
1240s | probably is |
1241s | fine it feels easier to do that you can |
1244s | there's plenty of things in game that |
1246s | you can kill that don't have achievement |
1248s | associated with it in fact yeah you know |
1250s | part of the design is the B isn't |
1252s | exactly meant to be much of a challenge |
1253s | right in of itself because the challenge |
1255s | comes from the PVP activity that's |
1258s | likely happening while the mechanics of |
1259s | the boss are largely straightforward |
1262s | these are I think it's it is more |
1264s | justifiable to avoid combat achievements |
1267s | um but yeah I I do think we need to |
1270s | understand if you're a pvm who has |
1272s | little interest in ever participating in |
1274s | PvP what is your feeling towards |
1277s | rathmore do you feel forced do you do |
1280s | you can you do you feel like you can |
1281s | just happily ignore it and go about your |
1283s | life and not care about it like that's |
1286s | what we want to understand and get a |
1288s | more nuanced understanding of of why cuz |
1291s | ultimately we want to provide something |
1293s | that is aimed at |
1295s | pvpers that they can take part in and |
1297s | other people can happily not take part |
1299s | in if they don't want to so we need to |
1301s | understand that because to me that's |
1304s | that's the route there's people who want |
1305s | to go in the wilderness and maybe enjoy |
1306s | it and there's plenty who don't and we |
1309s | don't really want to encourage the |
1311s | people who don't to go |
1314s | there oh that is very true I know that |
1316s | there's |
1317s | a I'm trying to figure out a way that I |
1319s | word this without sounding extremely uh |
1322s | extremely bad but there is a there's a |
1325s | lot of commentary a lot of speculation |
1328s | and understandably so from the player |
1330s | base that you |
1333s | know I think I'm just going to stop just |
1336s | in case because um yeah I I I don't know |
1341s | it's the you know like we they believe |
1345s | that we we are trying to force them in |
1347s | right and that we want people to be |
1348s | looping yter to bring in more pvpers but |
1352s | it's just not true there are obviously |
1355s | examples of where you could be |
1357s | incentivized to go to a piece of content |
1359s | because it's more rewarding but the way |
1362s | that we're we're doing it is that we're |
1364s | presenting you a choice and you can |
1366s | choose to take more risk to get more |
1368s | reward versus other content that might |
1370s | have higher requirements but lower risk |
1373s | for similar reward or lower requirements |
1375s | or similar requirements and no risk for |
1378s | for lower level of reward so we we don't |
1381s | sit together in a room and say we're |
1383s | going to make this content because we |
1385s | know it's going to attract 40% of the |
1387s | player base into it and that's going to |
1389s | make us get this many more pkers into it |
1391s | afterwards which is going to give us |
1392s | this much membership we're just looking |
1394s | to design cool content that is relevant |
1396s | to the people who will like it and |
1398s | sometimes we miss the mark whether it's |
1400s | PVP pvm Skilling like we don't always |
1402s | get it right every single time but there |
1404s | is No Malice there I think is what I'm |
1406s | trying to say it may come across that |
1409s | that that you know we are looking to |
1410s | bring in people as loot patas but |
1412s | genuinely the intention pretty much all |
1415s | the time is to just create cool content |
1417s | that people will enjoy that gives you a |
1419s | choice |
1420s | and Wilderness content with the fact |
1423s | that has PVP inherently is more risky so |
1425s | you can have more reward so I I guess by |
1427s | a roundabout way we are essentially |
1430s | making people loot pinatas but we're not |
1432s | doing it with intent it's just byproduct |
1435s | of design yeah that being said there are |
1437s | ways that we can potentially avoid it |
1439s | there right Karan you've you've |
1440s | highlighted that we are looking to get |
1442s | around that I think one of the things |
1444s | that we learned from Undead Pirates was |
1446s | around reward space and that heavily |
1449s | alal items just don't they they don't |
1452s | feel great being in the wilderness |
1454s | because Bad actors are more incentivized |
1456s | to then partake so rthm More's IDE |
1458s | ideology was to have unique rewards that |
1461s | would be usable in PvP I think one of |
1463s | the things that we maybe got wrong there |
1464s | was that they could have seen some use |
1467s | outside of PVP even though other items |
1469s | would categorically be better that |
1471s | already exist in the game but given the |
1474s | fact that some people might want to use |
1475s | it as a you know like a a a stop Gap |
1478s | like a bridging item um meant that yeah |
1481s | okay fair enough but we didn't want to |
1483s | have loads of alol so we need to have |
1485s | unique items as rewards if we don't have |
1487s | uniques as rewards then the only |
1489s | alternative that we have is GP per hour |
1491s | and GP per hour then incentivize people |
1493s | that aren't typically there to enjoy the |
1494s | content they're looking to make money to |
1496s | then do other things with it instead |
1498s | right whether that's selling it off or |
1500s | or using it for for their own accounts |
1502s | so it's a it's a really fine line for us |
1505s | to balance but I think that the updated |
1507s | design does a really good job of |
1508s | covering the key points um I've yapped a |
1511s | load so unless you want to add anything |
1513s | more to this I'm going to go to the next |
1515s | question yeah I mean the only thing I'd |
1517s | say is like you I think you're spot on |
1519s | right Our intention is not to cause you |
1522s | to be luk Pata but we realized that |
1525s | might be the consequence of the design |
1527s | anyhow um so you know we don't we don't |
1532s | want to we don't want the players to |
1533s | think it's Our intention cuz it's not we |
1536s | want you to help us avoid that and give |
1538s | us feedback that moves us in a direction |
1540s | that avoids that with the design and I |
1543s | can expand a little bit in a completely |
1545s | separate example the Wilderness Altar |
1547s | for prayer in my eyes it's overtuned I'm |
1551s | not saying we're going to Nerf it but to |
1554s | me it's balanced so strongly that even |
1558s | if you don't like the whole risk reward |
1559s | balance of going into the |
1561s | Wilderness it feels like it's a complete |
1565s | waste of your time to go and use a house |
1567s | alter or the EPO fundus or whatever else |
1571s | like it's just too strong and so to me |
1573s | it's like if that Alo is a little bit |
1575s | less it actually becomes a little bit |
1577s | more of a tradeoff right like if it's |
1580s | let's say it's 1.5 times better XP than |
1584s | will than using your house I might |
1585s | actually just say I'll pay the extra |
1586s | bones and do it chill in the house but |
1589s | because it's so much stronger it's like |
1590s | people who don't want to take part in |
1592s | Wilderness content are still coming to |
1594s | the Altar and so I think it's a lot of a |
1597s | simpler example because there isn't a |
1599s | collection log there's no combat |
1601s | achievements there's no other there's no |
1602s | gold generation it's purely XP oriented |
1605s | so there's less variables to consider |
1609s | but it is something we need to be keep |
1611s | an eye on when we when we balance these |
1613s | pieces of content and get them right but |
1616s | it just why would anyone go to a world |
1618s | this piece of content if it's not |
1620s | offering GP per hour that sort |
1623s | of exceeds what you can get elsewhere in |
1627s | the regular game risk- free so we need |
1629s | to work that out anyway we can move on |
1632s | to the next question |
1633s | is cool thank you Karen I appreciate it |
1636s | I'm just going crazy with chat here so |
1638s | I'm glad that you are chatting uh okay |
1640s | so let's talk a little bit around fomo |
1643s | fear of missing out time gated content |
1646s | historically you know we've not want to |
1648s | add things like evil trees the original |
1651s | version of shooting stars we made a lot |
1653s | of changes to shooting stars and we |
1654s | added it um penguin H hunting and you |
1657s | know other distractions and diversion |
1659s | content for years now to avoid fomo so |
1662s | why did we feel rfh Moore was different |
1664s | from |
1667s | these it's because we were looking at |
1669s | what worked for the breaches in dead man |
1671s | as firstly and the thing we liked about |
1674s | that was it gave a moment to log on with |
1677s | your other PVP friends and go to the |
1679s | content you created a big spiky moment |
1682s | where like all the pvpers almost came |
1684s | together and you had some mad scenario |
1687s | with various you know who knows what |
1688s | could happen that's kind of the point |
1690s | like the strongest parts of the |
1692s | Wilderness is like who knows what could |
1693s | happen PVP is the sort of only part of |
1696s | the game where that can really be the |
1698s | case we wanted to create that right you |
1700s | bring everybody together crazy things |
1702s | can happen |
1704s | um it it wasn't with the intention of of |
1708s | fomo in the same way that like uh evil |
1710s | trees shooting stars penguin hunting and |
1713s | so on like D and D content would be in |
1715s | their original forms but it is the |
1719s | result anyway in terms of obviously |
1720s | clearly how it's been received um but it |
1724s | yeah as I say difference between |
1725s | intention and consequences of what's |
1728s | happened um we didn't intend to create |
1730s | this thing that would make you feel |
1731s | compelled to log on every day but it is |
1734s | the result of how the Design's being |
1736s | interpreted and so we need to deal with |
1738s | that and adjust |
1741s | it fair thank you Kieran all right one |
1744s | that I'll kick off with and then ask you |
1745s | to add in afterwards so despite the |
1747s | initial poll results uh do we believe |
1750s | there are aspects of the proposal for |
1751s | rfh Moore that players liked um and I'll |
1754s | you know add in that to start with from |
1757s | the survey that we put out regarding rfh |
1759s | Moore it was very clear to us that |
1762s | players generally seem on board with the |
1764s | idea of a sporadic World boss at least |
1767s | um you know that means a which is |
1769s | scarcely encountered to condense players |
1771s | there who then take it on together um we |
1774s | obviously understand though that on the |
1775s | flip side players are much less |
1778s | enthusiastic about this Prospect when |
1780s | P's are thrown into the mix um but saw a |
1784s | different amount of potential there you |
1785s | know there's clearly a demand for a |
1787s | world boss we knew that before we even |
1789s | went into designing rmore in the first |
1791s | place so that wasn't um completely un uh |
1795s | you know a surprise to us one of the |
1798s | other things as as well that I saw and |
1799s | I'm not saying this just because I'm a |
1801s | sh for the content and it just so |
1802s | happens to be the stream that we're on |
1803s | talking about it but you can see the |
1805s | same comments too if you to go check on |
1807s | socials but I was um surprised actually |
1811s | given how badly the poll was fairing |
1813s | because you know we saw as soon as the |
1814s | summit was over and the poll went live |
1816s | that it was very likely that it would it |
1818s | would fail by the end of the poll anyway |
1821s | but um I saw quite a lot of people |
1824s | saying |
1825s | that they didn't actually hate wrath |
1828s | more they just hated a lot of what rfal |
1830s | was trying to do so it it wasn't that |
1832s | they were against the idea of new |
1834s | content being added to the Wilderness it |
1836s | was just what rathmore was proposing in |
1838s | that design was not good for the game |
1840s | and that's because of the issues that |
1841s | we've already talked about the main |
1843s | points that people brought up you know |
1844s | time gating fomo locking down uh too |
1847s | long to get the rewards that the whole |
1850s | feeling they have forced um I think the |
1853s | the general comment was that I'm not |
1855s | voting no to um |
1859s | like rathmore as a concept I'm voting no |
1861s | to rathmore in its current design so |
1863s | that pilled me with a lot of confidence |
1865s | that we could come back with something |
1867s | new and different that would uh address |
1869s | those |
1871s | concerns and Karen did you have did you |
1873s | see anything else that you thought that |
1874s | players really liked about |
1878s | rmore the actual boss in terms of what |
1882s | it is as a worm and its design and |
1884s | everything it's really cool it's |
1887s | naturally inspired everyone think about |
1888s | having a desert worm and stuff and you |
1891s | know hey that's topical given the the |
1893s | the the big Dune movies we've had in the |
1895s | the recent years but um yeah I I think |
1898s | it's just a cool idea um I think there's |
1901s | a lot of questions you can also ask |
1902s | about how do you define what a world |
1904s | boss |
1905s | is is is gr a world boss you know it's |
1908s | on the it's on the surface world as much |
1910s | as the res instancing is that a world |
1912s | for I don't think so I think the kind of |
1914s | wording we're maybe getting at is it's |
1917s | for generous |
1919s | somewhat |
1920s | sporadically in that he's probably got |
1922s | slightly different spawn mechanics to |
1923s | how other bosses work and generally it |
1927s | should be fought in massive groups like |
1929s | compared to you know a small team of |
1931s | five or whatever so that's all it says |
1934s | and you know that can come in so many |
1935s | different forms there's a lot of variety |
1937s | of how we could set up spawn mechanics a |
1939s | lot of variety and you know how its |
1941s | mechanics might work the big questions |
1943s | for me when I've thought about world |
1944s | bosses generally is how does spawn |
1946s | Mechanics Work and how does the loot |
1948s | system work and we have to be |
1949s | experimental with those to find |
1951s | something that that works cuz those have |
1953s | been the points of |
1957s | contention yeah they have for |
1959s | sure okay we are blasting through these |
1962s | questions thankfully a lovely uh |
1964s | moderator team are getting some from the |
1966s | chat so if you have any questions for |
1967s | chat by the way at Old School RS post |
1969s | them in we'll try and get through as |
1971s | many as we can maybe we'll do a quick |
1972s | fire answer at the end of the the |
1975s | prepared ones that we have Karen um yeah |
1978s | another one that I'm just going to I'm |
1979s | going to take headon to begin with and |
1980s | feel free to just add in afterwards just |
1982s | because it's around polling but I |
1985s | there's been a lot in chat we already |
1986s | prepared this question because we knew |
1987s | it was going to be coming up so I think |
1988s | it's right that I just get to it now and |
1990s | that is that you know why are we as a |
1992s | team looking to move ahead of a reworked |
1995s | proposal and repo rather than scrapping |
1997s | ra more entirely I think it's a |
1999s | completely Justified question I think |
2001s | it's absolutely acceptable for players |
2003s | to be saying that and to be wondering |
2005s | why so hopefully I can do a good enough |
2007s | job of explaining this at the end of the |
2009s | day for us polling in Old School it lets |
2012s | us know what content you do and you |
2013s | don't want but it's also a great time |
2015s | for us to gather feedback and this goes |
2018s | both ways you know if content passes we |
2020s | can use that feedback to improve by |
2022s | understanding what changes you want to |
2023s | see and then when content fails it won't |
2027s | be added to the game right unless it's |
2028s | reped so we can use that same |
2031s | opportunity that we would gather |
2033s | feedback for improving updates that do |
2034s | pass to actually look at improving |
2036s | designs that we put forward and seeing |
2038s | if there's any reason why we'd want to |
2041s | consider reping filed content it's not |
2044s | completely unheard of but it's also not |
2046s | very common that we do it there are |
2048s | different reasons though as to why we |
2050s | would look at reping something and one |
2052s | of those is are there enough significant |
2055s | changes that we can make based off |
2057s | player feedback that would then warrant |
2059s | a r a repo based on it essentially being |
2061s | an entirely new design with a similar |
2064s | shared concept so ultimately what we |
2067s | want to do is is we are not looking to |
2070s | force rth Moore into the game we're not |
2072s | even looking to repol it right away what |
2074s | we want to do first is share a new |
2076s | design with you share a feedback survey |
2079s | start to understand how you feel about |
2082s | the idea of rth Moore in its new form |
2085s | where all of your hopefully at least all |
2087s | of your concerns are |
2089s | addressed rather than what you saw at |
2091s | the summit um and if you are happy with |
2095s | that if you feel like we've addressed |
2096s | all of your concerns then it's quite |
2097s | clear that there's a lot of support for |
2099s | the new design then we'll look to do a |
2101s | repol in the future otherwise you know |
2104s | if the redesign doesn't achieve that |
2105s | then we just leave it it's you know |
2107s | there's no point us reping something |
2108s | that we know that you don't like but we |
2110s | do genuinely believe that there were |
2113s | enough points that we could actually |
2114s | solve change and improve upon that would |
2117s | warrant us looking at it again you know |
2120s | that's the simple answer to it genuinely |
2122s | mod Goblin did a huge amount of work |
2124s | going through everyone's feedback to try |
2126s | and understand you know all the main |
2127s | points |
2129s | then the development team the design |
2130s | team have worked with Community to |
2133s | incorporate those into a new design as |
2135s | well um so a hugely collaborative effort |
2138s | and um one that didn't take a huge |
2141s | amount of time you know this is a few |
2143s | days after the summit we always spend |
2145s | the first week after the summit going |
2146s | through everyone's feedback in the |
2148s | community team and then sharing that |
2149s | with the design team that goes for for |
2151s | everything regardless whether it passes |
2152s | or fails because we want to know you |
2154s | know even if something failed even if we |
2155s | didn't relook at rth Moore we would have |
2157s | still done this exercise that we've done |
2159s | now so that if we ever looked at PVP |
2161s | content in the future we can use that as |
2163s | a basis to help with further design so |
2165s | we've not spent any extra work other |
2167s | than okay mod Goblin I'm really sorry I |
2169s | made you write another |
2170s | blog uh and the designers have had to |
2173s | talk a little bit you know in a few |
2174s | hours around New Designs but otherwise |
2176s | it's like a really quick and easy way |
2178s | for us to potentially actually have |
2179s | something really cool that has been |
2180s | worked on with you the player base as |
2183s | well um one last thing as well is that I |
2186s | just want to touch on um um actually |
2189s | never mind I |
2191s | will answer it in no I won't I'll answer |
2194s | it now the next question I probably |
2195s | could have answered this in but I'm |
2196s | going to do it anyway um I don't think |
2199s | the summit was a good place for rathmore |
2201s | in hindsight looking back there were it |
2205s | was way too ambitious to do it in terms |
2208s | of like a typical green light approach |
2210s | given how new it was and how many new |
2212s | mechanics it was adding potentially |
2214s | adding into the game like I'm not |
2215s | surprised that everyone kind of got a |
2218s | little bit spooked by it and were really |
2220s | overly cautious about what what was |
2222s | potentially coming with |
2223s | rmore ideally I think now looking back |
2226s | it would have been way better if we' had |
2228s | just put forward a design proposal |
2230s | without a poll question gathered |
2232s | everyone's thoughts and feedback then |
2234s | updated the design and then look to |
2236s | Greenlight it afterwards because you |
2238s | know obviously at the summit all you get |
2240s | is a small amount of time which for |
2242s | Content that you know is tried and |
2244s | tested is absolutely fine you know like |
2246s | a new raid we've got some pretty damn |
2248s | good new raids new bosses amazing new |
2251s | bosses there's a lot of confidence built |
2253s | up there in the delivery PVP we already |
2255s | know is a little bit contentious in the |
2256s | first place but then PvP with new |
2258s | mechanics on as well yeah I'd be pretty |
2260s | scared too so um yeah that's why we're |
2263s | looking to repol it we think that we |
2265s | could do a much better job of actually |
2266s | proposing something like it a load of |
2268s | changes to incorporate your feedback and |
2270s | then we'll see whether you like it and |
2272s | then potentially repol |
2275s | it yeah I we should have for blog and |
2278s | not poll and and give the community a |
2281s | chance to respond to that initial design |
2284s | with feedback before we even |
2286s | contemplated a Poland you know |
2287s | hindsights 2020 but it's something we |
2289s | can learn from and make sure the |
2291s | community has more chance to shape that |
2293s | original design than they did with |
2295s | rathmore because ultimately you found |
2297s | out about it you know an hour before the |
2300s | poll went out I didn't have a chance to |
2301s | tell us what was wrong with |
2303s | it yeah and by then it's too late we |
2306s | can't do anything anyway |
2309s | yeah cool all right so next question |
2312s | then with all of that in mind and I know |
2314s | you kind of gave a very top level |
2316s | overview first Ken maybe we can go into |
2318s | a few more specifics now but are you |
2320s | able to share any insights into how |
2322s | we're looking to approach changes to the |
2324s | proposal um if you want I can quickly |
2329s | blast through or or you can one of us |
2332s | can all of like the the main changes |
2334s | remember that feedback table that we had |
2336s | of like what rathmore had what s or |
2339s | something else |
2340s | has I've got the very early bullet |
2343s | points that mod Goblin shared um that I |
2347s | can start with because this is some of |
2348s | the earlier early thinking on on this |
2352s | but um so firstly we add a desert |
2356s | version of |
2357s | rathmore socalled sandmore so far I what |
2361s | it's called that in the end probably not |
2364s | I don't know but either way sand more |
2365s | for now you can all Spam sand more and |
2368s | that's the name that we're using in in |
2371s | design at the |
2373s | minute if we did sand more it would have |
2376s | a far higher spawn frequency but it |
2378s | might be essentially always there always |
2380s | on like a normal boss um and it would |
2383s | reward reward its own |
2386s | teeth those teeth could then in theory |
2389s | be used to create defensive |
2392s | items those defensive items could reduce |
2394s | the the damage you take from sandore |
2397s | even wrath Moore and help out in the |
2400s | wilderness too if you were then to go |
2402s | and kill the Wilderness version it could |
2405s | have a defensive PVP Focus as well these |
2407s | are the sort of things we're we're |
2409s | thinking about um on the rathmore side |
2412s | obviously rathmore itself would still |
2414s | exist too its spawn frequency would also |
2418s | go up from from what obviously we |
2420s | originally pitched um we would up the |
2424s | rate of teeth gain essentially make sure |
2426s | we're very considerate of how long it |
2427s | takes to get the rewards from |
2430s | rmore um we could also look to make |
2433s | rathmore only spawn in singles and not |
2435s | multi you know these are options we can |
2438s | consider um and we could also make |
2441s | rathmore deal more aggressive damage to |
2445s | scold players potentially so like it is |
2448s | a more harsh environment for somebody |
2450s | who's there to to attack the people |
2453s | killing rathmore so that's that's the |
2456s | list I have in front of me I don't know |
2457s | there's more I've missed on the other |
2459s | document |
2461s | is there's there's a fair amount in |
2463s | there I wonder if I just quick fire |
2465s | through each one individually and then |
2467s | we can chat about specifics afterwards |
2469s | chat are you ready I'm going to speedrun |
2471s | this okay I'm going to start with |
2473s | rathmore and then I'm going to go to |
2475s | sandmore and this is written this is |
2477s | taken directly from the blog that you're |
2478s | going to get next week so I'm sorry |
2480s | Goblin for stealing your thunder but it |
2482s | you know it's important information |
2484s | we're sharing out here okay so rathmore |
2486s | located in the wilderness s located in |
2488s | the desert WTH Moore would resurface 3 |
2490s | to 11 minutes after it's been defeated a |
2493s | number of Worlds that delay is to allow |
2495s | players to finish up any fights that |
2497s | might have broken out or restock before |
2499s | going to the next uh the next kill but |
2502s | again a massive difference right three |
2503s | to 11 minutes for rmore to resurface |
2505s | versus the three spawns a day means that |
2507s | it's essentially always on on the flip |
2509s | side sanmore would resurface every 1 to |
2512s | three minutes after it's been defeated |
2513s | on a number of dedicated worlds as well |
2515s | so it would be respawning way faster |
2517s | than it was before for uh for rathmore |
2519s | spawns in a variety of locations uh one |
2521s | of those would be dedicated to so one |
2525s | world sorry would be dedicated to |
2527s | multicombat spawns while all of the |
2529s | other worlds would then be dedicated to |
2530s | single combat spawns only so if you're |
2533s | looking for multic combat as a pvper you |
2535s | go to the multi combat world and if |
2537s | you're looking for a more single |
2538s | orientated fight against rmore you can |
2540s | go to the singles only world so you can |
2542s | choose basically how you want to fight |
2545s | and who you want to be fighting for |
2546s | sanmore it would just spawn in a variety |
2548s | of random locations throughout the |
2550s | desert um both bosses would have a |
2552s | really big Health pool but rmore would |
2554s | have a much higher hit pool than sandore |
2557s | would just because it's inherently meant |
2559s | to be riskier it's in the wilderness um |
2561s | and then for rewards nowhere near |
2563s | finished and to make sure it's |
2565s | absolutely clear these are just ideas |
2567s | ideas need be to be validated and it's |
2569s | your job to validate them with us but |
2571s | for wrath we'd be looking at rewards |
2573s | that would provide an offensive Focus |
2574s | that only work in PvP worlds or |
2576s | Wilderness scenarios basically like how |
2578s | blighted items do currently so the |
2580s | example would be an amulet of Wrath |
2582s | which has the same status as an amulet |
2584s | of Glory but it has an extra 15% damage |
2586s | bonus against rathmore um so there's |
2590s | that not against other people just |
2591s | rathmore and then for sand more we would |
2594s | provide rods s of a defensive Focus so |
2596s | the example that we've got here is the |
2598s | Amulet of sand which has defensive stats |
2601s | equivalent to an amulet of Fury but with |
2603s | no offensive stats and then it provides |
2605s | a reduction to damage taken from rmore |
2608s | and sandmore and other players if you're |
2611s | in the vicinity of ivory of the worms so |
2613s | you get this amulet from sandmore you |
2615s | want to go to wrath Moore you're now |
2616s | taking less damage from wrath Moore and |
2618s | less damage from players whilst you're |
2619s | next to WTH Moore as well kind of like |
2622s | we're really trying to figure out like |
2624s | you know what could work for different |
2625s | people here and reasons why if you did |
2627s | want to then venture out into the |
2628s | Wilderness version you'd have something |
2629s | that would potentially uh help you out |
2632s | um again just ideas so in terms of of |
2635s | rewards um the reward space was changed |
2638s | slightly as well because the bosses are |
2640s | now going to spawn more frequently we |
2641s | need to give a little bit less in terms |
2643s | of rewards so the top 30 players who |
2645s | dealt the most damage would get rewarded |
2648s | um that's for both rathmore and sanmore |
2651s | rathmore would drop rth Moore's teeth |
2652s | sanmore drops sandor's teeth rathmore is |
2655s | like the rthm Mor's teeth would be the |
2657s | only item on the collection log that is |
2658s | one of the changes that we are looking |
2660s | to do so we spoke about it a little bit |
2662s | earlier is it weird to have items off |
2664s | the collection log you tell us we would |
2666s | put rmos on there but the other unique |
2668s | rewards maybe wouldn't be on the |
2670s | collection log um for rathmore only the |
2672s | sandore ones we we really want to try |
2674s | and understand you know what actually |
2676s | helps make you feel less forced into |
2679s | Into the Wilderness with this one so |
2680s | we're just going out there of all the |
2681s | ideas and you can let us know basically |
2684s | um yeah and then otherwise the only of |
2687s | the things really is that like some of |
2689s | the rewards that would drop um from |
2691s | rathmore would require Revenant ether to |
2693s | activate but it wouldn't consume them |
2696s | like a traditional charge base Sy system |
2697s | would it's just to literally activate |
2699s | them and that's to help give us a little |
2700s | bit of monetary value when players die |
2702s | with these items on so if pkers are |
2704s | fighting using two rathmore items |
2706s | someone's going to make sure they're |
2707s | guaranteed to get some money and that is |
2710s | 75% of that effort that was put in there |
2712s | given back to them but to use the items |
2714s | no upkeep so reduce the need for you to |
2716s | consistently going back to get ether or |
2718s | teeth or whatever else um for sandore |
2722s | items there would be um there would be |
2726s | no kind of like ation charge but you |
2729s | would uh you would lose the item on |
2732s | death in PvP so you would essentially |
2735s | the item would just disappear um again |
2737s | that's just a general idea right now a |
2739s | concept we can change that just let us |
2740s | know how you think about it uh and then |
2743s | I think lastly it's just like uh |
2744s | rathmore would look to drop some blotted |
2746s | supplies to help with supply cost and |
2748s | sanmore would look at a small amount of |
2750s | supplies but nowhere near as rthm more |
2752s | because it's going to be a lot easier so |
2754s | I think that is pretty much the majority |
2756s | of the changes uh much faster respawns |
2759s | revised rewards entirely two different |
2762s | versions of the boss one PVP one pvm um |
2769s | yeah I think that addresses most of the |
2772s | the major concerns people have had and |
2775s | obviously the community you will be the |
2777s | judge of whether it does and I'm sure |
2780s | you'll go through the blog with a fine |
2782s | tooth com give us your feedback give us |
2783s | your |
2784s | thoughts if we like if you like it |
2786s | amazing |
2788s | if you don't sure we we'll we'll |
2790s | obviously listen and and pay attention |
2792s | to how that |
2796s | goes nice one thank you Kieran I lost |
2799s | where I was in terms of |
2801s | questions uh oh okay here we go |
2804s | um before we go into the next question I |
2807s | do want to ask actually have you taken |
2810s | any learnings from The wathore Proposal |
2812s | that extend beyond the pitch itself |
2818s | um I mentioned the thing about blogging |
2820s | it and pulling it and letting the |
2821s | community help shape a design before we |
2823s | just go straight into a major gigle with |
2825s | it that's one thing um that's less about |
2828s | the design of it that's more about the |
2831s | more about how we frame it and how we |
2833s | talk to players which which is a big |
2835s | part of it because ultimately to me the |
2837s | way we work with players essentially |
2840s | means we should always be quite safe in |
2843s | terms of if we put out a bad design |
2845s | obviously players tell us it's bad and |
2847s | we can correct it that's that's useful |
2849s | it's very useful for us um to design |
2852s | itself I mean it's the weight the weight |
2856s | of feeling |
2859s | around chore Escape daily Escape fear |
2863s | missing out that makes it unequivocally |
2866s | clear that that is something we will |
2868s | avoid in basically all future content |
2871s | now for what it's worth we put in some |
2875s | game design pillars at the start of this |
2877s | year that features in it it already did |
2880s | and has done for for a while this is |
2883s | something that I would actually be Keen |
2885s | to talk to players at some point about |
2887s | about what those pillars are but it is |
2889s | something we know now that it's |
2890s | absolutely right to be there and will |
2894s | keep that tightly in mind and know you |
2895s | mentioned Penguins earlier e there's a |
2898s | lot of nostalgia for like the penguin |
2900s | hide and seek thing |
2902s | that part of me is like how could we |
2905s | actually do something based on the |
2906s | penguin hideand-seek thing but |
2909s | completely avoid the weekly aspect of it |
2912s | and I I don't really know an answer to |
2914s | that question at all um I don't want a |
2917s | big weekly activity you can do just get |
2918s | a free chunk of XP I don't think that's |
2921s | right but I like the idea of how the |
2923s | community came together to find the |
2924s | Penguins so it's like how do you combine |
2927s | the two I think that's the major thing |
2929s | I'm taking away from |
2931s | that the other takeaways I think are |
2933s | still to be determined to some extent we |
2936s | need to think deeply around how |
2938s | Wilderness content works and those are |
2941s | the learnings we need to take and think |
2943s | about how we offer content to pvpers in |
2946s | the |
2946s | wilderness and how we balance those how |
2950s | we make sure it's not luring the wrong |
2951s | people there and so on there's a lot to |
2953s | think about and it to be perfectly |
2955s | honest and transparent I don't think we |
2958s | necessarily know those answers yet um we |
2962s | understand the criticism rthm Mo's got |
2963s | and we're trying to listen to that with |
2964s | our new pitch but and a more broad level |
2969s | like what do we do to the Wilderness |
2970s | next year or in two years time there's |
2973s | plenty of Concepts and ideas but how we |
2978s | understand how we structure them and so |
2980s | on I think we need to give a lot of |
2982s | thought to that topic and obviously it's |
2986s | clear that this kind of approach of |
2988s | trying to sort of aim it squarely at PVP |
2991s | is spiked PVP traffic isn't the one um |
2995s | which we were we were thinking that |
2996s | might be a good way to go so lots of |
2999s | different ideas I think it's not an easy |
3001s | design space to aim for we've certainly |
3003s | struggled with it um and I think we need |
3006s | to research more and understand how |
3008s | players think about these topics so yeah |
3012s | maybe not an exact learning just yet but |
3015s | there's there's obviously learnings to |
3016s | still pull out of this that we it's |
3018s | still early at the end of the day it's |
3019s | just |
3020s | happened but but yeah lots lots to |
3024s | digest lots to take away don't know if |
3026s | you've got any from a CM |
3028s | perspective I think you covered most of |
3030s | it Kieran I mean to be completely fair I |
3033s | think most of the |
3036s | um points that I seen players raise were |
3038s | things that we had expected to see in |
3040s | the CM team anyway with rafal's proposal |
3043s | like we knew that it was kind of out |
3044s | there we knew that there was a lot going |
3045s | on to it um you know I said earlier I |
3048s | wasn't surprised to see so many people |
3050s | kind of like dislike it but that's why |
3053s | we have the polling systems that we kind |
3054s | of look at just putting things out there |
3056s | seeing people's reaction and then |
3057s | figuring out what we want to do next I |
3059s | think one of the biggest learnings for |
3061s | me is that they still quite clear it's |
3063s | not a new learning it's just reinforcing |
3066s | what was already known but it's still |
3068s | it's very clear there's still a large |
3069s | portion of the community that have this |
3071s | feeling Force going into the Wilderness |
3072s | kind of thing despite us trying to |
3075s | design content that isn't intending to |
3077s | do that by by Nature it might be by you |
3080s | know product of it just being in the |
3082s | game it does that in any way and that's |
3084s | something that I want to try and um |
3087s | focus on moving forward how do we avoid |
3089s | that how do we make sure that everyone |
3091s | feels okay with content being added |
3093s | because you know at the end of the day |
3094s | we are going to be looking at designing |
3097s | PVP content consistently moving forward |
3099s | it's one of the things that we committed |
3101s | to a few years ago when PVP had no love |
3103s | for like four or five years it would |
3105s | just be the same as if suddenly you know |
3106s | there was a lot of um dissatisfaction |
3109s | towards Iron Man updates where we're not |
3111s | going to stop doing Iron Man updates |
3112s | because Iron Man updates are important |
3114s | to the game there's a lot of people that |
3115s | play Iron just like we're not going to |
3117s | stop doing pvm we're not going to stop |
3119s | Skilling we're not going to stop quests |
3120s | we want to develop content for everyone |
3123s | so the priority is how can we make sure |
3125s | we do that where everyone feels okay |
3126s | with it because clearly at the moment |
3128s | that's not the case I know that we're |
3130s | never going to please everyone we're |
3131s | never going to keep everyone happy but |
3134s | I'm want I'm wanting to take away as |
3135s | many learnings from this as possible to |
3137s | try and get closer to that point than |
3140s | where we are right now that leads us |
3142s | quite nicely into the next question um |
3144s | and that is that you know we don't |
3146s | believe believe that wrath Moore being |
3149s | in the wilderness was the only reason |
3150s | that it failed there's been a lot of |
3152s | other reasons as well but it quite |
3155s | clearly was still a factor for some of |
3157s | the player base so Kieran you want to |
3160s | touch on this maybe to start I can jump |
3162s | in afterwards because I was kind of |
3163s | talking about anyway but you know are we |
3165s | as a team having any conversations about |
3166s | the Wilderness or PVP in a more broad |
3169s | sense yeah it's pretty much kind of what |
3171s | I was just alluding to on the on the |
3173s | previous question about learnings is |
3174s | that ultimately we do absolutely need to |
3178s | have deeper conversations around this I |
3180s | think there's research to do and try and |
3182s | understand what players want what they |
3183s | definitely don't want and so on that |
3185s | will ultimately help us to try and |
3187s | create to meet some sense of like |
3190s | guidelines and ideas of what will the |
3192s | content should try and aim for I think |
3195s | we've done stuff that s has been more |
3197s | successful we've done stuff that's |
3199s | struggled I mean I'd be interested to |
3201s | hear what the chat thinks but from my |
3203s | perspective I feel like the changes to |
3205s | the Wilderness agility Arena went pretty |
3207s | darn well feel that that seemed to |
3210s | strike a pretty good spot it's not a |
3211s | major piece of content in the same way |
3213s | like rtho would have been but it seemed |
3215s | that that hit the mark |
3217s | um and so it's what can we pull out and |
3220s | learn from the things that have gone |
3222s | well combine that with research from |
3224s | players in order to have make these |
3226s | conversations sensible and come to good |
3229s | conclusions around what future PVP |
3231s | content should look like there's very |
3233s | there's I think there's a lot of options |
3235s | for how we go forward really um we're |
3238s | also Keen to obviously strengthen things |
3241s | like Bounty Hunter and so on which is |
3243s | obviously less Wilderness related but |
3245s | there's other parts of PVP that we can't |
3248s | lose love from either |
3250s | LMS is it plays a big role and actually |
3253s | in LMS you get a lot of the less PVP |
3255s | oriented players trying out PVP which is |
3258s | very much player versus player right |
3260s | you're not you're not targeting a Luke |
3261s | pinata an LMS nor do you really do that |
3264s | in Bounty Hunter so like these have a |
3266s | purpose to serve |
3267s | um there are lots of bots in LMS that is |
3269s | a major problem as well um but it's like |
3274s | you got all these different structures |
3275s | that serve PVP LMS Bounty Huna so on how |
3279s | do they all play their roles um |
3282s | competitions also a potential thing that |
3284s | can play a role we've obviously got dead |
3286s | man as a game mode you can have oneoff |
3288s | competitions little knockout tournaments |
3290s | there's we've did the jix cup in the |
3292s | past where you have like 5v5 tournaments |
3294s | like there there's a lot of options that |
3295s | are not just content as well and to me I |
3298s | want to look across all of that spectrum |
3301s | of all that spectrum of different PVP |
3304s | stuff what do they do who do they serve |
3307s | what's it for what does good look like |
3309s | for these different |
3311s | things but these conversations need to |
3313s | go further it's not that we haven't had |
3314s | any these obviously have we've been |
3317s | discussing discussing PVP to no end for |
3319s | years we haven't got to a point where we |
3322s | fully get it |
3325s | yet they definitely is still a lot of |
3328s | work to do that's for sure but it's |
3331s | exciting you know I like challenges like |
3333s | this cuz it it always feels good when |
3335s | you get a good outcome at the end of the |
3336s | day that's what we want to make sure |
3337s | right that the players are happy that |
3339s | there's content for people to enjoy and |
3341s | there's good value for your membership |
3342s | as a result of that as long as all those |
3344s | things happen and you know we carry on |
3346s | doing the the work that we do and we get |
3348s | to be happy with it so um right I'm |
3351s | going to jump into a few questions that |
3353s | we got from chat we got a couple of |
3354s | minutes so try and quick fire a few of |
3356s | these out um some of them have already |
3358s | answered so I won't go over them but um |
3361s | the ones that we haven't or potentially |
3363s | would add some extra context I'll ask so |
3365s | how will you get pvp's feedback most PVP |
3368s | feedback is being downvoted online I |
3370s | mean I will attest to this Reddit |
3372s | absolutely hates engaging in |
3374s | constructive PVP conversation I would |
3377s | love it if the downvote system could |
3379s | just be paused if anyone mentions |
3381s | something where they're in favor of a |
3383s | PVP |
3385s | update cuz for most part Reddit can |
3388s | actually be really good for General |
3390s | conversation around feedback on updates |
3392s | there's a lot of really healthy |
3393s | conversation that goes on more now than |
3395s | there was before but my God if it ever |
3398s | comes to PVP you you just can't be a PVP |
3401s | enjoyer and go onto the subreddit |
3403s | because you're are G to get slaughtered |
3407s | um we did have the PVP Discord but that |
3410s | had its own problems so for this |
3413s | particular instance I'm not going to |
3414s | over promise saying that we'll have a |
3416s | new server set up for PVP enjoyers to |
3418s | engage in feedback there'll be a survey |
3421s | We'll be asking information about your |
3423s | your username your you know your in-game |
3425s | character just the display name so that |
3427s | we can then use that to figure out you |
3429s | know what type of player you are um and |
3431s | then hopefully be able to you know I |
3433s | guess um segment people into they're a |
3435s | pvper they're a pvm they're a mix of |
3438s | both uh and then use it that way but |
3440s | moving forward we do want to have |
3442s | another server set up that's part of the |
3444s | official old school server where people |
3445s | can enjoy talking about PVP in a much |
3448s | healthier manner that's moderated and um |
3452s | yeah that's that's |
3454s | that um right Kieran you want to take |
3457s | this one can you design the boss rewards |
3459s | to remove the use outside of PVP and no |
3462s | collection log |
3464s | slots so first point about not using the |
3466s | weapons outside of PVP that is |
3469s | absolutely an option that we can we can |
3471s | do we could do that in future we could |
3473s | do that with the Wrath rewards in theory |
3476s | so that's that's one thing and that |
3477s | would remove any incentive for pvmers to |
3480s | feel like they need to get it cuz it's |
3481s | not going to have much value to them the |
3484s | one issue with with that the challenge |
3486s | for us is the economy side right you |
3488s | lower the demand for the weapon and thus |
3490s | its price might not be as attractive |
3492s | that's something we have to wear up |
3494s | collection log I think it's perfectly |
3496s | reasonable to to exclude them um at the |
3500s | end of the day these bosses would drop |
3502s | teeth the teeth would be on the |
3504s | collection log you then go to a shop and |
3507s | buy these items so not everything you |
3509s | buy in a shop is collection logged so I |
3511s | think it's it's it's reasonable to go |
3513s | that way and it's a reasonable way to |
3515s | draw a line in excluding it um I could |
3519s | still see many arguments for including |
3522s | it there are obviously mini games plenty |
3523s | of things that do have collection logs |
3525s | in shops but I think we're trying to |
3527s | find a reasonable compromise |
3531s | there nice thank you Karen great answer |
3534s | way more uh to the point that |
3537s | me it's fine all right last question |
3540s | from chat I'll uh I'll send this one as |
3542s | well I'm going to sound like a broken |
3543s | record and I'm sure people are annoyed |
3545s | of hearing it now but it's just because |
3546s | I see it coming up so much that I had to |
3548s | take it from chat recently but it's also |
3550s | the last question on our list that the |
3552s | mods have put in I understand reping if |
3554s | it was a close poll but this one was far |
3555s | off why do you feel this one is worth |
3557s | reping um and I'm just going to say once |
3559s | more for absolute Clarity sake yeah |
3562s | completely understand where people are |
3564s | coming from with this one it is very |
3565s | much an edge case for us to even be |
3567s | considering reping it given how badly it |
3569s | failed but the only reason that we are |
3572s | looking at potentially reping it if |
3574s | that's something that you would like us |
3575s | to do uh based on a new design is |
3578s | because we saw so much feedback around |
3580s | points that we felt that we could |
3582s | genuinely address relatively easily that |
3585s | it would have been |
3587s | um I think it would I don't want to say |
3589s | wrong but maybe it would have just been |
3591s | wrong for us to not at least consider |
3592s | redesigning it so yeah huge amount of |
3595s | changes that we believe that those |
3597s | Warren enough change to to look at |
3600s | reping it but the approach that we're |
3602s | going to do is this we're going to share |
3604s | the reposed the redesigned proposal if I |
3607s | can speak properly next week you have |
3610s | time round about a week or so maybe a |
3612s | bit longer to go through that we do some |
3614s | rounds of feedback make some changes |
3616s | there's a survey in there that asks |
3618s | about wrath Moore sand Moore and the |
3620s | Wilderness generally we're going to use |
3622s | all of that feedback over the course of |
3624s | the the week or two to then essentially |
3627s | make a judgment call on whether or not |
3628s | we feel like we should even bother |
3630s | reping it or not because at the end of |
3632s | the day if it's still clear that with |
3633s | the new design people really don't like |
3635s | it and that they'd rather just not |
3637s | explore rfhm at all then cool that's |
3639s | fine we're okay with that we're not |
3641s | going to bother spending any more time |
3642s | on it but if there is a chance if there |
3644s | is a way that we can bring content that |
3645s | people want and we saw a demand for it |
3648s | with change then we want to try and at |
3650s | least explore that and give it the the |
3652s | treatment that that we feel like it |
3653s | deserves um just want to clarify one |
3656s | last part for the second time as well |
3659s | now just because I don't want people |
3661s | getting the wrong idea this process |
3663s | happens regardless the only difference |
3665s | is that me and Kieran are on the live |
3666s | stream now if we were taken out of the |
3668s | live stream that would be you know this |
3670s | is the only extra work so to speak that |
3672s | we're doing as part of this we spend the |
3675s | first two weeks after every Summit first |
3677s | week or two weeks going through all of |
3679s | your feedback for every single project |
3681s | regardless of whether it's failed |
3682s | regardless whether it's passed we as the |
3684s | CM team then work with the design team |
3687s | to implement as much of that feedback |
3688s | into the designs as possible some of |
3690s | those you'll see in updated blogs you |
3692s | maybe even get ped on them in the future |
3695s | and even for the content that failed we |
3696s | document it all so that we can come back |
3698s | to it uh if we were looking to do a |
3700s | similar update in a few years time from |
3702s | now and take learnings from there so the |
3705s | process itself really the extra time |
3707s | that is being spent now is that M Goblin |
3709s | has put together a really good design |
3710s | based on your feedback that was shared |
3712s | with the designers that they vetted made |
3714s | sure we're going to be okay doing that |
3716s | and then we've got to put out a Blog so |
3718s | um I just want to basically offer some |
3720s | reassurance and Kieran feel free to |
3722s | correct me from wrong here but this |
3723s | hasn't taken away any development time |
3725s | it's the community management team that |
3726s | have been spending a lot of the the |
3728s | majority of their time and resource |
3730s | going through the feedback putting |
3731s | together design proposals that could |
3733s | then help shape a new blog so you |
3735s | haven't lost any content we we're not |
3737s | wasting Dev time so to speak this is |
3739s | just something that happens anyway we're |
3740s | just not very transparent about it um |
3743s | and yeah there's that |
3746s | did you want to add anything to it |
3748s | Karen I think it's pretty simple really |
3750s | this is fundamentally a pretty different |
3753s | pitch to the first one it's changed in a |
3756s | vast number of ways that have a dramatic |
3758s | impact on how this content will feel to |
3761s | me that's worth exploring that's worth |
3765s | seeing what the players think if you |
3766s | still don't want it you have the ability |
3768s | to vote that way um and at that point |
3771s | obviously we we certainly wouldn't be |
3774s | exploring it any further |
3778s | well said all right let's wrap up with |
3781s | the last round of announcements just to |
3782s | recover the things that were mentioned |
3784s | at the start of the stream we have |
3785s | exclamation mark beta uh if you want to |
3788s | get involved in the changes to Winter |
3790s | Todd then go check out that there's also |
3792s | a new blog that Goblin has put together |
3794s | and shared to show you what changes |
3795s | we're going to be making based on the |
3797s | feedback we received from the beta so |
3799s | far ready for the release we also have |
3801s | exclamation mark vmore next week |
3804s | Wednesday September 25th vmore the |
3806s | rising darkness is out so make sure that |
3809s | you mark it in your calendar log in play |
3811s | go check out all the new content there |
3813s | is so much a little bit for for pretty |
3815s | much everyone um then exclamation about |
3819s | modcast completely separate but |
3821s | something else that we talked about in |
3822s | The Summit project xanis on our official |
3825s | Discord server modani and TJ talked all |
3827s | about project xanis and they answered a |
3829s | whole bunch of different questions some |
3830s | of them you probably would never expect |
3832s | them to answer because they were they |
3833s | were very specific um and and and really |
3836s | like high level topical uh things that |
3839s | have been brought up so go do check that |
3842s | out it's loaded up on YouTube I Believe |
3843s | next week there's going to be a |
3844s | transcript of that as well if you'd |
3846s | rather read it and then if you want to |
3848s | tune in to Future modcs stage calls make |
3851s | sure you join the Discord server with |
3852s | exclamation Mar Discord Community is |
3854s | constantly growing there's a whole load |
3856s | of different spaces in there we're going |
3857s | to be using it a whole lot more moving |
3859s | forward as well um just want to say |
3860s | massive thank you mod Kieran for joining |
3863s | and helping with all of the questions |
3864s | today anything that you want to wrap up |
3865s | with |
3868s | thanks for having me thanks for |
3869s | listening to us give give our thoughts |
3871s | on on this topic um I'm excited to see |
3874s | how people respond to the new |
3877s | proposal awesome and lastly thank you to |
3879s | the production team the moderation team |
3881s | for helping out and also to everyone who |
3883s | has tuned in and been wonderful in the |
3885s | chat I've seen so many nice comments |
3888s | positivity being thrown out thank you so |
3889s | much for all of the kind words you share |
3891s | have a great evening enjoy the rest of |
3893s | your week have a great weekend and |
3894s | hopefully we'll see you again in the |
3895s | next live stream soon bye |