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Removing emblems from wildy slayer will never pass, these are huge incentives for people to do wildy slayer in the first place
Removing emblems from wildy slayer will never pass, these are huge incentives for people to do wildy slayer in the first place
What if it came with an increase in value for Wildy Slayer elsewhere like buffing Larran's keys?
This would actually motivate me to PvP
I'm glad to hear that!
I am almost inspired to create a PKing account...
What can we do to get you over the line? :P
Will non-pkers still be able to buy a rune pouch through mysterious emblems? This was unclear to me in the blog.
They would not - if you don't wish to participate in BH, you'd have to get the Rune pouch from the Slayer reward points shop instead.
What made you decide 30 was a good combat to limit bounty hunting to? Are there any specialty accounts that will be left out of a 30 combat minimum?
The lowest brackets start around there - most of them are a lot higher.
I just need to get good :) I truly enjoy PVP in it's current state. I just hate getting way outplayed every fight due to being "new" to the scene. I always end up getting on ready to pk, end up dying 4-5 fights in a row, then getting off of the account for a couple weeks lol.
That's fair - if you didn't have time to check out the last one, the upcoming (second) LMS beta will be a great place to practice without paying for gear and supplies. Same will be true when it's in the live game.
Dang that’s a big blog lol. As someone who doesn’t PvP at all, does this update change much for other players?
If anyone has a TL;DR I’d appreciate it
Here's a TLDR.
We promised a Bounty Hunter rework at two consecutive RuneFests. Unfortunately we weren't well-placed to offer the updates, and the PvP community were understandably annoyed. The team are committed to making things right, and the leadership team are empowering us to do so.
You felt BH wasn't rewarding and it was convoluted. We've made things simple. You now get points for killing your target, for embarking on a killstreak, and for reaching kill milestones (like Slayer task completions).
There are also 'Player Bounties' which are bespoke tasks requiring you to kill opponents in a certain way.
We're changing the store system too.
We'd like to add crates which would serve as a consistent GP income. They'd contain supplies, but also unique items like weapon upgrades, corrupt weaponry, and a cosmetic which reflects how many players you killed.
Mysterious emblems currently lend themselves to 'boosting' and limit the profitability of bounty hunter. We'd like to remove them from Wilderness Slayer. We also want to change the way they work. We propose that you purchase emblems and risk them in fights as a means of making more money from those other players who are risking theirs.
We want to change the interface so that it shows only relevant information.
In addition to Bounty Hunter, we also talk about integrity changes we want to make.
The Granite maul is very strong. We'd like to increase the special attack cost, but also introduce a new attachment which will essentially restore its special attack cost to what it is now.
We aren't going to make massive changes to the Dinh's Bulwark. Instead we're just going to reduce its magic defence bonus to 0.
We're going to make Snare available to non-members, and we're also going to remove the effect that Protect From Magic has on binding spells (Bind, Snare, and Entangle).
We talk a lot about untradeable item loss and magic defence calculation. You should read those sections.
How is the issue of emblem farms addressed here? This seems like it will only make them more lucrative. Did I miss something?
The emblem system in the proposal is zero sum. So no gold is generated from it overall, meaning one individual can't profit by killing their own accounts.
Jagex actually went through with Dinh's Bulwark changes despite gigantic community backlash. Makes actually no sense to me.
We listened to the feedback and altered our approach, as is described in the blog.
Instead of reducing all of its stats by 10 points, we will instead reduce its Magic defence bonus from +18 to 0. This is a relatively minor change in terms of how often spells are likely to hit.
What happens to existing points? Does it get converted to the new system based on a ratio or are you forced to spend it?
Players would have to spend these during the grace period before the conversion.
What is your goal with the gmaul changes? Because to me, the upgrade item makes the entire change pointless; if anything it will make the current situation worse. Right now the gmaul serves as a cheap overpowered KO weapon, if that becomes gated behind the upgrade, then new players looking to get into PvP won't have that option whereas the more experienced players who've gotten the points will have it and will just stomp them out. But for people who pvp regularly amongst themselves it doesn't really change the situation of it being a cheaper AGS.
I think the issue here is the binary nature of balancing the maul spec - either you leave it at 50% to get 2 specs or you don't. I see this proposal as being the worst of both worlds.
My personal opinion is that the maul is a dumb weapon and should just be nerfed into unviability with no ifs ands or buts, but I can see how that is a highly unpopular option with so many account builds dedicated to the weapon.
Maybe the way to fix it is to just give it a new special attack entirely? Like some kind of worse D axe special, some kind of root/stun effect, or a stat debuff on the enemy. Lots of different things that could be done, just depends what your own personal opinion on the matter is and what your goal/vision is for the weapon. What role do you want it to serve?
If you think the GMaul should be made completely unusable, we're not likely to agree, but I'll explain the thought process.
Because it's a cheap weapon used by lots of players, we wanted to maintain it's viability but at least increase the cost to use it. Locking the spec behind a limited resource item like the attachment described in the blog will make it more expensive to use. Prior to any of the rework changes, it'll sit at a value of at least 500k, based on how much emblems are going for right now. This seems fair for a +1 spec weapon with low requirements, or is at least a step in the right direction.
Bind, Snare and Entangle are the spells on the standard spell book that allow you to prevent your opponent from moving for 5, 10, and 14.4 seconds respectively. Currently, these durations are halved if cast on an opponent who is using the Protect from Magic Prayer. In response to player feedback, we will remove this condition.
So how exactly will this work when updated? Bind/snare/entangle will just be full duration when protecting from magic?
Correct
will you still be able to buy looting bags from the new shop or will it be back to killing rats for 10 minutes everytime you lose one?
what happens to existing points in the shop. is it a spend or lose scenario like the emblems?
The points would have to be spend before conversion, like the emblem, yeah. I've added the looting back to the list of items available in the BH shop - we also intend to keep them on the general wilderness drop table.
What would happen to current points in the BH store right now?
What would happen to our current emblems, T1, T2-T9, T10s?
You'd have a grace period to spend these before any changes were made. They would not be carried over to the new system when the shop is converted - if it all goes ahead.
I wouldn't say its in the best interests of pvmers to vote yes to being killed easier, without any offers of concurrent updates for more counterplay.
The PvP changes described in the blog are separate to the BH Rework Design
I dont pk but this looks exciting and if they go through ill surely be taking it up. Amazing proposals well done mods
Happy to hear you like it!
Great work Jagex team! This rework and design changes look truly amazing!
I'm glad to see that the idea to add the ancient and corrupted weapons to loot crates was added.
I feel like your wording may be off putting for a lot of the voting playerbase who don't like change, especially in the benefit of PvP. Maybe emphasise that these updates are concentrated on pker vs pker over just PvP itself?
Will there be a BH roster for non UK and USA players?
Unskulling is a slight problem too and often a griefing issue too
Mage defence calculations will be the toughest. Nerfing the amount a player's mage level effects their magic defence and adding that to pure defence fixes the problem with low defence accounts but will directly buff the med to main bracket that use good gear and compound the situation. There needs to be a way for you guys to counteract that imbalance occurring at higher stats. Soft and hard caps could be a way to resolve this.
Thanks for the feedback on the wording.
You're right about the magic def calculation being tough - the weighting either favours pures or disadvantages them depending which way it shifts.
People use wildy slayer to get rune pouches on their irons. 1250 slayer points is too high.
I think that number was chosen with the idea of keeping BH the primary source in mind. So if the rework goes forward, I wouldn't mind seeing that cost decreased.
Why not have a legacy store, the same as it currently is? There would be no way to earn points for it, and the only way to access it would be a dialogue option with the emblem trader if you already have points.
This removes a reason to vote no and is comparable or less work for the devs.
Thanks for this feedback - we'll have a think about the idea. My only concern would be confusion for players new to BH about there being two shops. It'd have to be accessible only players with old points, though I don't know how feasible that is. How long would you make the legacy store available for?
Maybe I’m misunderstanding, so if someone could explain that would be great.
BH rework would get rid of all previous points. You gain new points by killing your target and getting streaks, as well as different little challenges. And you get slayer-esque bonus points as well for kill. All these increments being small, with a max of 3 points per kill and on your 1000th kill, you get a bonus 150.
The new granite maul upgrade is 1,250,000 points.
If we assume flawless 120 kills an hour, without considering time to resupply and jumping straight to 3 points per kill, and you do every bonus challenge every 30 minutes.
So you would be getting 108 regular kills, ten “10th” kill bonuses, and two “50th” kill bonuses. As well as the two 10 point challenges every half hour
108x3 + 10x25 + 2x50 + 2x10 = 644 points per hour at unrealistic efficiency.
1,250,000/644 = 1941 hours to get granite maul upgrade?!
Please tell me I’ve missed something here..
The PvP Changes section is separate from the BH design - sorry if that was unclear. The new granite maul upgrade would cost 1.25m BH points in the current system - that's a change we'd like to make for the time being before the rework (should it go ahead). In the rework, the upgrade item would come from crates as a rare loot - the crates cost 5 of the new system points each.
How does this new system lend itself to not be farmable/boostable? It seems like the point system is easier to farm than emblems.
To get the highest rate of points, you'd need to convince each of the randomly matched targets you get to sell you a kill consecutively. If they choose not to accept or you skip, you'll lose your streak and stop receiving the better rate of points.
I think the issue lies with how many people use wildy slayer for rune pouch. Pretty much any iron who doesn't like/use boosting will use wildy slayer as opposed to 1250 slayer points. That's an insane amount to grind out in slayer alone, and would take much, much, longer.
The points cost of the Rune pouch in the Slayer shop can be reduced.
Yeah then the slay point cost of the rune pouch needs reevaluated. 1250pts is way too much if its not an alternative.
I'd be happy to re-consider the cost of the pouch in the slayer shop and discuss it with the team.
A lot of people seem to want to have the gmaul upgrade as a grotesque guardian drop, as the boss pales in comparison to its non-boss version in value. Have you guys discussed this and how it could effect the boss and the value of the gmaul upgrade if it can be gained from a secondary pvm source?
We did discuss this idea and it certainly fits thematically. It's not off the table, but having the upgrade come from the source it's used at seemed preferable to having PvP rely on PvM in the way you're describing.
This upgrade item will be available from the Bounty Hunter store for 1,250,000 Bounty Hunter points
Either someone forgot to convert that to the new point system, or Jagex really hates Gmaul rushers
This would be the cost in the meantime with the current points system before the rework is implemented (if it goes ahead).
thoughts?
All of those ideas are viable. The rune pouch has been one of the main points of discussion since the blog was launched so we'll continue scoping out what you guys think is best overall.
Can we get rid of people ranging in full armor with no loss in accuracy?
We've discussed this too but haven't settled on exact numbers just yet.
Has there been any internal talk about changing Ironman pking? Allowing then to "destroy" tradeable items when they get kills in pvp?
As an ironman, there is really no incentive to try pvp in the wilderness, but if I could remove dropped items from the game, I feel like I would be more inclined to risk items myself.
I believe that exact idea was polled previously but didn't pass.
I see a major flaw potentially in this and think it needs to be brought up. I may be mistaken as well.
Currently the new proposed change allows for bounty hunters to receive 1 point per kill. Is an emblem required to receive this point or will players be able to receive points without any risk?If no emblem is required to receive points then that is where the problem lies.
Reason of concern is that the bot farms will just have a bunch of low level 30 accounts with 0 risk, and having a couple accounts mule points off the other accounts. They essentially could easily grind points and with an average of 100K per point, an account with say 10 kills on a continuous kill streak, is already at 41 points. That is 4.1M on average and this would take little to no time to reach, especially for bot farms.
I don't think they'll be making 100k per point. If you're referring to the average cost of a crate which has been pitched at 100k, those cost 5 points. I'm open to the idea of requiring an emblem to be eligible to gain points, but it does increase the cost of playing the minigame, raising the barrier to entry for new PKers. One of our goals was to do the opposite of that.
This is f**king epic
:)